[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by PB PM You mean, like how people should forget all the times GM screwed up?

Issue with that is they screwed up many times and then screwed the customers over as well by not backing their own product. If Toyota keeps on failing hard and pulls an old GM, then it will start effecting Toyota. But, when Toyota recovers from this mess and keeps on treating the customer right and backs their product, then I see no long term effect on Toyota over this mess.

[PB PM]

You mean... like GM still is. Lets face it, greedy human beings run these companies, there will always be corruption and attempts to cover up failures.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by PB PM You mean... like GM still is.

Lets see GM is backing their product with a 5 yr/100,000 mile powertrain warranty, are taking steps to improve customer service( 60 day return guarantee, reducing the number of dealers to reduce inter-competition and have a better relationship with remaining dealers, etc), and currently doesn't try to hide potentially deadly defects( ) I don't see how your statement is accurate.

For me my Chevy and Saturn dealer have been great. The salesmen at both are wonderful and the service department provides great service( though with this recession, the Chevy dealer has been pushing for service to be done which our mechanic says doesn't need to be done when he looks at it). The Saturn dealer has always washed my Aura for free after taking it in just for an oil change. Saturn sent around 5 replicas of the NACOTY award( which I had the opportunity to get) and gave away free T-Shirts to have the customers show some pride about winning the award. I am sad that Saturn was killed because they by far have given me the best customer service for a car I have experienced so far and hope GM finally transplants the Saturn experience into the other brands.

Lets face it, greedy human beings run these companies, there will always be corruption and attempts to cover up failures.

I agree. If GM is ever caught hiding a major defect then I will be doing the same thing right now and scrutinize them.

[PB PM]

Oh good service. I've had nothing but good service from my Toyota dealer too. OBW Honda issued a huge recall today, nobody is saying boo about that.

[RowdyScot]

Yeah, but some of Honda's recalls are *awesome*. My 2001 Civic was recalled for *shooting fire from the headlights*!

[Robo]

Originally Posted by PB PM OBW Honda issued a huge recall today, nobody is saying boo about that.

Recalls are a normal part of shipping any automobile. Denying problems and attempting to cover them up in a cloud that reeks of conflict of interest (on all sides -- the NHTSA, the investigating representatives...), on the other hand...

[PB PM]

Well, Honda must have been sitting on its butt, because the recall is on cars from 2001 and 2002, meaning cars that are 9 or 10 years old, not 4-1 like Toyota.

[Quagmire]

So looks like complaints started back in 2002......

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35334990/ns/business-autos/

[Robo]

Originally Posted by PB PM Well, Honda must have been sitting on its butt, because the recall is on cars from 2001 and 2002, meaning cars that are 9 or 10 years old, not 4-1 like Toyota.

Or issues didn't start to crop up until recently...? I don't know a lot about the Honda recall since I don't drive Hondas but that sort of thing happens all the time. It doesn't necessarily mean the company was sitting on their butt.

If Honda first tried telling everybody what was really ailing their cars was the floor mats, and then they started reinforcing brake pedals, but it seemed to be clear that what was really wrong with the cars was the software, but they insisted it was just the pedals, and then it came to light that the NHTSA was investigating Honda for whatever is ailing the Hondas back in 2004 but then one of the investigators got a job at Honda and the investigation was promptly dropped, and then it came to light that the politicians responsible for investigating Honda owned hundreds of thousands of dollars of Honda stock and had a vested interest in keeping Honda successful so that they would continue to operate plants and employ people in their states...then we could talk.

[PB PM]

I'm not saying what Toyota has done/is alleged to have done is right, but that we should not be too quick to point fingers. Just because you haven't heard what Honda, or any other manufacture has or has not done, means nothing about what happens behind closed doors. Maybe the Honda guys are better at covering their tracks?

[Robo]

Oh I'm sure there's tons of corruption, but we can only get steamed over the stuff we "know" about

[torifile]

Toyota employees helped "halt" investigations. This could be a PR nightmare for either the NHTSA or Toyota. Or both.

[PB PM]

Yup, it looks bad. Then again, nobodies checking to see if other auto makers are doing the same thing.

[torifile]

Originally Posted by PB PM Yup, it looks bad. Then again, nobodies checking to see if other auto makers are doing the same thing.

The article explicitly states that Toyota is the only one of the car companies with former NHTSA employees as current employees. I don't know if that was just a throw away statement or if it was actually researched.

[PB PM]

True, it does say that. I think bloomberg is a reasonably honest source so I guess it is true. I would not be surprised to find out that other companies have done it before though.

[chucker]

Toyota ranks 17th out of 20 among automakers in the overall number of complaints per vehicle sold.

[torifile]

Originally Posted by chucker Toyota ranks 17th out of 20 among automakers in the overall number of complaints per vehicle sold.

I wish sites would do mobile redirection right.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by chucker Toyota ranks 17th out of 20 among automakers in the overall number of complaints per vehicle sold.

So how is General Motors Company doing?

[torifile]

Originally Posted by Quagmire So how is General Motors Company doing?

I think you're misreading the chart. Lower numbers are bad. It's a proportion of complaints versus market share. GM is middling at best. Which should be their motto.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by torifile I think you're misreading the chart. Lower numbers are bad. It's a proportion of complaints versus market share. GM is middling at best. Which should be their motto.

Maybe. The chart says ranked in order of most complaints so that is confusing me?

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Quagmire So how is General Motors Company doing?

Worse. The rank takes market share into account. Toyota has 13.5% of the market and 9.1% of the complaints, whereas GM has 24.5% of the market and 25.3% of the complaints. So, for each market share percentage point, GM has more complaints, whereas Toyota has fewer.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by chucker Worse. The rank takes market share into account. Toyota has 13.5% of the market and 9.1% of the complaints, whereas GM has 24.5% of the market and 25.3% of the complaints. So, for each market share percentage point, GM has more complaints, whereas Toyota has fewer.

You missed my intention. The chart has General Motors Corporation listed which is now Motors Liquidation and still going through bankruptcy to eventual liquidation. General Motors Company is the new company that bought General Motors Corporation's 4 core brands during the 363 motion back in June when GM Corp filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

So that is why I asked how GM Company was doing because in the legal and technical perspective, it is a new company separate from General Motors Corporation.

[chucker]

I don't see how it being a different company has anything to do with its complaints statistics for the past decade.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by chucker I don't see how it being a different company has anything to do with its complaints statistics for the past decade.

I was overall being sarcastic hence why I put this smile, . But, you can't fault a company for the mistakes another company made( even though GM Company is a technically a new company, they are still one in the same). I wouldn't blame MS for Apple's woes with the 27" iMac.

Again, I was mostly being sarcastic with my original post making fun of that technicality.

[PB PM]

Nah, you're just trying to make GM look good.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by PB PM Nah, you're just trying to make GM look good.

I don't need to do that. Toyota is doing that all on their own.

[PB PM]

Even with their problems Toyota still has a lower complaint count.

[ShadowOfGed]

There were a bunch of protesters in front of the Toyota dealership here. Holding a sign saying "Toyota is Dangerous to California." I'd like to see these idiots build a better, defect-free vehicle. Don't they have something better to do with their lives?

[PB PM]

It is always easier to protest than actually do something.

[JohnnyTheA]

It will be interesting to see how Toyota handles this crisis. Quality has always been a big priority for them. I couldn't believe it when I heard Toyo's CEO speaking REALLY bad english in an apology statement. He sounded like something out of Southpark! Its a sign that they are in real trouble. Japanese, especially the higher ranked ones, generally don't like to talk in English unless they speak it close to perfect. Something cultural about saving face.

I am a Toyota Fan. My current 04 Tundra is a really solid truck that I am very happy with. Even still I can see differences between it and my older 95 T100. The T100 was canked because it was built in Japan and had a 25% tariff. Toyo decided they would build up plants in the US to make a similar truck (Tundra). The Tundra doesn't have the same build quality that the old T100 had. It is also an interference Engine with a timing belt instead of a chain (Cheaper for the company). Still I have 95K on it with no issues, so I don't have much to complain about. And it rides really nice.

I think Toyota made the best autos in the mid-80s through the 90s. For the past ten years it seems they have been trying to mimic GM by selling so many models and making their cars REALLY big. The new Tundra is has major stability problems, is F-ing Huge, and is part of this new recall debacle. If I get a new truck someday, it probably won't be a Tundra.

Honda/Acura still kick Arse...