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16 and 14 Inch MacBoob Pro
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drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-05-17, 21:22

Maybe they really WEREN'T planning to add those ports and the wildly heralded responses to rumors in the press pushed them to go that route? We may never know.


...
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-05-18, 05:29

Update. Seems it may be COVID-related. Places aren’t staffed/running at 100%, etc.

Still on track for a second-half of 2021 launch, but tight until production fully ramps up.

Blah, blah…

Who knows what’s true, or worth believing, in such reports. I’m just passing along related news in the relevant thread.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-05-18, 11:00

"Back to normal" is not a thing. Production woes look like they're going to be a problem well into the future.
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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-05-18, 14:21

Yep. Read this piece yesterday that was making that clear.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-06-03, 08:34

Well, here we go (maybe)...

Someone who isn't Jon Prosser says new, redesigned 14" and 16" MacBook Pros will be introduced net week at WWDC keynote.

Makes sense, considering the venue/event (professional developers + professional portable Macs).

We'll see soon enough.

This part, however, sounds off/weird:

Quote:
The analyst, who has made predictions regarding event announcements in the past, says the M1 Apple silicon chip will power the new MacBook Pros; however, that's unlikely to be the case.
I suppose there could be an M1x or something...a bit more powerful, capable and higher-end than the M1 that's already in Macs since November. Maybe that's what he meant. An M1-something that justifies the wait, redesign, etc. Otherwise they could've just put the M1 in all the notebooks last November and called it done. The higher-end, pricier (and more powerful) 13" model, along with the 16", didn't transition six months ago for a reason (other than just to keep an Intel-based option around for those who need it).
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chucker
 
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2021-06-03, 08:36

M1, including M1X, seems a bit late at this point. I think we're more likely to see an early M2 here.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-06-03, 09:04

We just don't know these things are planned out, or what Apple's long-range approach is.

I assumed newer, beefier variants will get called M2, M3, etc. But, for all we know, M1 is the building block/foundation and, for the foreseeable future, it just get suffixes added to that? The M2 might be years away, and truly a next-generation type of thing? Who knows...they've not laid out any sort of public roadmap, so it'll probably be another 6-12 months before we're able to figure out any sort of pattern. That might start as soon as Monday, though.

"Ahh, so that's how they're going to go about it with this second round...".

The naming doesn't really matter. I assume whatever's coming in these models, no matter what it's called, will run a bit faster, support more RAM, have better graphics, etc. than what's in the current M1-based Macs. Otherwise, what's the point? There's definitely a reason the more powerful Macs have yet to transition (because they were never intended for the "modest", rev. A M1 currently in use).

This may be one of those rare modern era keynotes I'll watch. It's a slog to sit through all the retail, watch and sales-related stuff (and the inevitable human interest/lifestyle pieces and forays into fluff/schmaltz they usually offer up). But I'll perk up if/when they start talking about the M1 and Macs. Hopefully, like that Spring Forward event, they get right to it (as they did with the new iMac). But they may leave new notebooks until the end.

I will say this: these pre-filmed, stylishly-edited presentations are growing on me. Visually, they're much more interesting to watch (the transitions between segments, the sets/locations used, the things they can do with graphics/animation in-scene, etc.). They're just better all around, on several fronts (more informative, you get a better look at the hardware, no awkward third-party presenters, no whooping/seal-clapping audience, no chance of a glitch or technical snag, etc.). Nobody presently at Apple has that Thing™ to effectively carry a live, 90-minute-plus presentation. Not even hair guy, whose shtick got old a couple of years ago.

Doing this stuff in front of a live crowd has been annoying/awkward for at least a decade (hell, two decades...ever since Steve quit doing them, frankly), so I much prefer this new way, now that I've seen a few. It just flows better. These people are all easier to take in bite-size, digestible and edited chunks, vs. standing on a black stage and trying to engage a live audience. There have been some absolutely awful live keynotes/presentations over the years because so many don't seem to know what the hell they're doing up there. At the very least, they should have a bottle of whiskey backstage and everyone is required to take two slugs from it before they walk out. I think that would help quite a bit with some presenters.

But it'll probably go back to live/in-person next June if things continue to improve. Oh well...it was nice while it lasted.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2021-06-03 at 09:32.
  quote
chucker
 
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2021-06-03, 09:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
We just don't know these things are planned out, or what Apple's long-range approach is.

I assumed newer, beefier variants will get called M2, M3, etc. But, for all we know, M1 is the building block and, for the foreseeable future, it just get suffixes added to that? Who knows...they've not laid out any sort of public roadmap, so it'll probably be another 6-12 months before we're able to figure out any sort of pattern. That might start as soon as Monday, though.
I think they'll do the same thing they did with the A series and S series — the number increments once a year, and sometimes there are offshoots, like the A12X and A12Z, and the S1P. So we might see an M1X, but at this point, probably not. Then, in fall, an M2, and perhaps several variants for higher-end computers throughout the year (M2X? M2XL?), and maybe even a low-end M2L one for the Air successor.

Then again, Apple's marketing seems to enjoy being a little unpredictable on naming. So they might do the "M2 is the high end; M1 is more mainstream" approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
The naming doesn't really matter. I assume whatever's coming in these models, no matter what it's called, will run a bit faster, support more RAM, have better graphics, etc. than what's in the current M1-based Macs. Otherwise, what's the point? There's definitely a reason the more powerful Macs have yet to transition.
Absolutely.

It's not the name, it's what we associate with it: if they take the M1 but add support for more RAM and more external displays, that's already a plenty capable processor for the 14-inch. If they add more CPU and GPU cores, that'll destroy the current highest-end 16-inch Intel MacBook Pro. Either of those could be an "M1X".

Or, they might take the route of using a new generation of cores (instead of Firestorm/Icestorm), and maybe those already from the get-go feature more RAM and display support. That might be the "M2X".

(I'm guessing they'll do both: they'll upgrade the generation, but also add more cores than are necessary on their current lower-end ARM Macs; therefore, the first CPU of this generation we'll see might be called the "M2X", and the 'regular' "M2" launches later in the year or early 2022.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
This may be one of those rare modern era keynotes I'll watch. It's a slog to sit through all the retail, watch and sales-related stuff (and the inevitable human interest/lifestyle pieces and forays into fluff/schmaltz they usually offer up). But I'll perk up if/when they start talking about the M1 and Macs. Hopefully, like that Spring Forward event, they get right to it (as they did with the new iMac). But they may leave new notebooks until the end.
While I do expect some hardware (which could mean just an offhanded mention of "we're continuing our transition throughout this year"!), don't be shocked if the main focus is software. iOS 15, macOS 12, etc. Apparently, the introduction of homeOS, which I'm guessing is their combined successor of Apple TV's tvOS, and HomePod's audioOS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I will say this. These pre-filmed, stylishly-edited presentations are growing on me. Visually, they're much more interesting to watch (the transitions between segments, the sets/locations used, the things they can do with graphics/animation in-scene, etc.). And because it's not live, there's no nail-biting on the "is everything gonna go right?" front. And there's no longer that dead weight of reps from third-party outfits who've never spoken to more than six people at once standing on stage and "umm-ing", nervously fidgeting and dry-throating their way through a presentation in front of hundreds of people (and millions online). Those are beyond painful to sit through and I've never liked any of them. But, most of all, I love that's there's no live audience there, doing the whole "woooo!" thing throughout, and seal-clapping through the entire thing at every little prompt or space (because as lame as it is to hear everyone spraying their shorts over this-and-that, it's even more awkward when, occasionally, there is no applause/response to something said that you know was meant to elicit one). It's cringe-inducing and so uncomfortable to watch. I always feel bad for whoever's on stage at that moment.
I'm really torn on this.

On the one hand: the production quality is great. It's more efficient and therefore less annoying to watch. The Spring Forward event felt like a breeze. (I have yet to watch the iPhone event, in part because apparently the Verizon/5G mentions were insufferable.)

OTOH, I'm bummed how formulaic it's become. It's like they looked through three Stevenotes and decided, "yup, that's how we're going to do every single one of them from today on until eternity!"

But Steve wasn't actually that formulaic! The iPod intro and iPhone intro have very different vibes, for example. There was often an element of "Steve just spends five times live-demo'ing a user interface, clearly at his personal peak and in awe of his team" that seems missing now. They still do live demos, but they feel far more "alright, you get the idea" compact. Efficient, but less human.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
But it'll probably go back to live/in-person next June if things continue to improve. Oh well...it was nice while it lasted.
I think they, too, like some of the changes made, even if they were forced upon them.

I don't think post-pandemic Apple events will be quite the way they were pre-pandemic.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-06-03, 09:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
But Steve wasn't actually that formulaic! The iPod intro and iPhone intro have very different vibes, for example. There was often an element of "Steve just spends five times live-demo'ing a user interface, clearly at his personal peak and in awe of his team" that seems missing now. They still do live demos, but they feel far more "alright, you get the idea" compact. Efficient, but less human.
Exactly! I think that's what I miss more than anything. The only reason I ever delved into Garageband was because of how Steve presented it. I had no interest in it in the lead-up rumors, but to see him sit there and put together that little tune, piece by piece...I couldn't wait to get my hands on it. Between it and iTunes, my first steps into digital music. I'd still have CDs (cassettes?) and my TASCAM 4-track tape-based multitrack recorder otherwise. It kinda changed my life. Certainly my hobbies!

I know he gets romanticized and put on a pedestal (that he may not fully deserve), but damn...there's no denying that was a wonderful period (1998-2010ish). I'm glad I was around, and into all this stuff. Great memories, and, without a doubt, a big part of the reason I still care about all this stuff. No iEra Steve Jobs, I'm likely on a Dell and an Android-based phone. I was a Mac user pre-iMac/Jobs' return, but I didn't fully dive in/get "passionate" about it until 1998 and those years following. That was when I knew "okay, I'll be using this stuff forever."

At 52 I'm not about to change anything on the computing/phone front.
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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
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2021-06-03, 13:38

There was also that oddly hilarious piece of funeral theatre for Mac OS 9.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-06-03, 13:54

And the iBook WiFi/AirPort hula hoop (and I recall Phil Schiller jumping off a platform for some reason).
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chucker
 
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2021-06-03, 14:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Exactly! I think that's what I miss more than anything. The only reason I ever delved into Garageband was because of how Steve presented it. I had no interest in it in the lead-up rumors, but to see him sit there and put together that little tune, piece by piece...I couldn't wait to get my hands on it. Between it and iTunes, my first steps into digital music. I'd still have CDs (cassettes?) and my TASCAM 4-track tape-based multitrack recorder otherwise. It kinda changed my life. Certainly my hobbies!

I know he gets romanticized and put on a pedestal (that he may not fully deserve), but damn...there's no denying that was a wonderful period (1998-2010ish).
Exactly. The Aqua, Exposé, iLife, etc. era was full of "I for one love this piece of software, and I'm about to show you why you will, too".
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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
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2021-06-04, 00:42

Went down an internet rabbit hole this evening and began to wonder:

Could Apple update the Duo concept with its new Silicon?

Could they engineer a way to utilize your laptop's RAM, CPU and GPU as added resources when it is docked with the iMac?
Does Thunderbolt 4 have enough speed to do something like this?

Now that they make the whole enchilada, maybe a 16" MacBook Pro and a 30" iMac could work together for Pros in exciting new ways.
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chucker
 
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2021-06-04, 02:28

Nah. Tb 4 goes to 40 Gigabits per second, or 5 Gigabytes. The LPDDR4x RAM in an M1 reaches 34.1 Gigabytes per second, so about 7 times as much, and M2 might go to LPDDR5, which boosts that even further.

I suppose they could put the RAM in the dock, but at that point you basically have a separate computer?

(edit)

Now that I'm awake, to expand on that… it's interesting how much the PowerBook Duo's Duo Dock did. It added VRAM and an FPU. The FPU part would probably be quite impractical now, due to aforementioned bandwidth and latency concerns. But the VRAM is kind of a thing with eGPUs.

I don't think Apple will do this, but a third party could probably make an eGPU that works more like a Duo Dock: slide the MacBook, lid closed, into a giant holder, VHS tape-style. Then have some kind of mechanism that, once inserted, hooks up the Thunderbolt port from the side. And finally, add many, many ports, and a GPU.

Last edited by chucker : 2021-06-04 at 07:29.
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chucker
 
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2021-06-04, 09:04

DigiTimes is one of those outlets with the rule of thumb: whatever they say, the opposite will occur.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-06-04, 11:29

Ah, good to know. I just kinda assume they’re all pretty much full of shit/grasping at this point. But I suppose there are varying levels of shit/grasping?
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chucker
 
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2021-06-04, 12:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Ah, good to know. I just kinda assume they’re all pretty much full of shit/grasping at this point. But I suppose there are varying levels of shit/grasping?
Yup.
  • if a supposed source claims to have supply chain intel, that's plausible. Lots of third-party companies involved here; hard for Apple to control. OTOH, that also means that you're really mostly talking one particular component. E.g., supply-chain leaks did accurately predict that mini-LED displays were coming. It took much longer to predict which particular product they were coming to, because that's something the supplier wouldn't know about.
  • if a source claims to know things like a product name and pricing, they're almost certainly false. For one, that's something Apple does internally, and two, they get to do so at a very late stage. When you see a Mark Gurman suddenly talking about product positioning, that's him embellishing the story to please his editors (or whatever), not him actually having additional info. So the core rumor is often right, but he wraps it in something made up.

Anyway, AppleTrack seems to rate DigiTimes at 63.5% accurate, which is higher than I'd have guessed. I wonder how much lower this rate would be once you filter out products that are imminent.
  quote
Frank777
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2021-06-04, 12:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Nah. Tb 4 goes to 40 Gigabits per second, or 5 Gigabytes. The LPDDR4x RAM in an M1 reaches 34.1 Gigabytes per second, so about 7 times as much, and M2 might go to LPDDR5, which boosts that even further.

I suppose they could put the RAM in the dock, but at that point you basically have a separate computer?

(edit)

Now that I'm awake, to expand on that… it's interesting how much the PowerBook Duo's Duo Dock did. It added VRAM and an FPU. The FPU part would probably be quite impractical now, due to aforementioned bandwidth and latency concerns. But the VRAM is kind of a thing with eGPUs.

I don't think Apple will do this, but a third party could probably make an eGPU that works more like a Duo Dock: slide the MacBook, lid closed, into a giant holder, VHS tape-style. Then have some kind of mechanism that, once inserted, hooks up the Thunderbolt port from the side. And finally, add many, many ports, and a GPU.
Oh well, it was an idea...

And yes, combining the TB dock and eGPU is something that might be well done by a third-party.
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