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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-05-25, 12:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Well, Apple can't seem to decide whom the Mac mini is for. I wouldn't be shocked at all if they move it downmarket again. Only to move it upmarket again a few years later (and not revise it at all in the meantime).
No kidding. That's kinda been the approach all this time. It's either been $499 or starting at $699. User upgradeable, or welded shut. Silver or space grey (nd back to silver). Neglected for years, or included in the opening round of a new chip transition.

I don't think they have the first idea of what to do with the thing either. It kinda shows. It's like this little side project/toy they keep around to amuse themselves. When they're tired of watch or iPad and notebook stuff, they screw around with the Mac mini for run and relaxation.

A shame, because at $499 it would be the end-all/be-all "get 'em in the door" Mac (and/or a ~$800 Air). While Apple will never go "bargain basement blowout" and "cheap", they can't/shouldn't offer all "premium" either. That closes off too many doors, IMO. Believe it or not, at some point the iPhone (and all the other non-Mac stuff) is going to run its course. Or everyone on the planet will eventually have two of each. Nobody's going to live and die by phones and watches forever. They'll morph and blend and become other things entirely.*

At the end of the day, Apple is still the outfit that makes the Mac. They will live, and die, by that product, IMO. It's different than it used to be, of course. But that's still going to be the one product in their lineup that will never go away, phase out or fall out of favor. I truly believe this.

So I'm happy that they're now rolling their own, to better control/guide that future.



*The iPhone, a decade from now, will be something so different that we probably can't even imagine it (a folding piece of transparent glass...real Star Trek shit, I'm betting), but the Mac will still be there too. More than ever, IMO. I think we've just seen the tip of the iceberg on this transition.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2021-05-25 at 12:42.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-05-25, 13:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
If they do use the iMac plug as indicated by the render, surely that makes the power brick external? (But then why bother with the internal Ethernet port? Doesn't really add up.)
If there is both an ethernet option on the brick and one in the computer, it could serve two purposes: 1) 10Gb ethernet may not function over that magnetic-connector-thingy, and if 10Gb remains an option, then, well …; and 2) Dual ethernet ports can be very handy for servers.

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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-05-25, 13:47

I'm betting it has more to do with 10Gb than a desire to give us two RJ-45 ports. Apple would rather a dongle for us since most people don't need it if you asked them.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-05-25, 13:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
No kidding. That's kinda been the approach all this time. It's either been $499 or starting at $699. User upgradeable, or welded shut. Silver or space grey (nd back to silver). Neglected for years, or included in the opening round of a new chip transition.

I don't think they have the first idea of what to do with the thing either. It kinda shows. It's like this little side project/toy they keep around to amuse themselves. When they're tired of watch or iPad and notebook stuff, they screw around with the Mac mini for run and relaxation.
Yuuuup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
A shame, because at $499 it would be the end-all/be-all "get 'em in the door" Mac (and/or a ~$800 Air). While Apple will never go "bargain basement blowout" and "cheap", they can't/shouldn't offer all "premium" either.
For the Mac mini, I think that time has passed.

In 2005, the scenario of "you have a Windows XP machine with a cheap monitor, keyboard, mouse, and tower, and it does most of what you need but is kinda eh, and now you simply replace that fat tower with the tiny Mac mini desktop and plug d/k/m in" wasn't that uncommon.

But in 2021, it might be. People overwhelmingly have laptops instead, and so they might not even have a monitor at all. Maybe not a keyboard and mouse either, if the laptop's built-in inputs don't suck. Really, the new scenario is "you have a Chromebook, and it does most of what you need but is kinda eh".

Like you said, a $800 Air is far more likely to have that spot. And that just might happen: have the M2 Air roll around and, Tim Cook-style, keep the existing M1 Air around for a few years, discounted by $200. (MacBook Air SE? )

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
*The iPhone, a decade from now, will be something so different that we probably can't even imagine it (a folding piece of transparent glass...real Star Trek shit, I'm betting),
Yup.

The answer to many "why is Apple doing it this way?" questions is: this is their agenda

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
but the Mac will still be there too. More than ever, IMO. I think we've just seen the tip of the iceberg on this transition.
I'm excited!
  quote
chucker
 
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2021-05-25, 13:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
If there is both an ethernet option on the brick and one in the computer, it could serve two purposes: 1) 10Gb ethernet may not function over that magnetic-connector-thingy, and if 10Gb remains an option, then, well …; and 2) Dual ethernet ports can be very handy for servers.
Yeah.

(Do we know a little more about that port by now? It still seems logical to me that they would've done a proprietary connector on top of USB4. If so, 10 Gb should be feasible.)
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Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-05-25, 22:22

So, whoever is in charge of messing with tech users just okayed the release of another USB spec.
This time, it doubles the power delivery.

USB 4 (aka Thunderbolt 3) was supposed to be the latest and greatest, but I guess now you have to ask if your machine has USB and if that USB has USB-C plugs, and if the USB4/USB-C you have is also updated with Version 2.1 for 240-watt power. These people are demented.

I'm guessing Apple has known about this for awhile. Anything in the near-term Mac pipeline that might benefit from 240 watt USB?
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-05-26, 01:39

See above — I wouldn’t be shocked if the iMac’s connector (which needs more than the current 100W) is actually USB-C.
  quote
drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-05-26, 06:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
These people are demented.


Oh I needed that laugh this morning.

And sure, it's tough to continue updating to new standards.

SO MANY CABLES.


...
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2021-05-26, 09:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
USB 4 (aka Thunderbolt 3) was supposed to be the latest and greatest, but I guess now you have to ask if your machine has USB and if that USB has USB-C plugs, and if the USB4/USB-C you have is also updated with Version 2.1 for 240-watt power. These people are demented.
It’s worse than that, you forgot that when you buy USB cables now you have to watch out for ones that are only power, not data, cables. USB-C included. Then there are the 2.2 USB3/4 cables that don’t have thunderbolt, and are only 20GB/s. I cannot even remember what they call the USB4 cables that actually have thunderbolt like performance (it’s not the same after all). 4.1 is still 5GB/s, 4.1 gen 2 is 10GB/s, 4.2x2 is 20GB/s, so what do they call the 40GB/s one? It’s not called thunderbolt, it still has the CPU hit that USB is known for, unlike thunderbolt. Is Apple shipping just plan Thunderbolt type C ports or are they true USB4 type “x” ports?
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-05-26, 09:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I cannot even remember what they call the USB4 cables that actually have thunderbolt like performance (it’s not the same after all). 4.1 is still 5GB/s, 4.1 gen 2 is 10GB/s, 4.2x2 is 20GB/s, so what do they call the 40GB/s one?
USB4 Gen 3x2 is 40 Gb/s

By 4.1, you probably mean 3.1.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-05-26, 10:04

This all sounds so crazy. I miss the jellybean iMac days. You knew exactly what you had, and what cable(s) worked. You couldn’t mess up and there absolutely zero confusion or complexity to any of it. You now need a chart to keep it all straight.

Things started to go a little sideways and “huh?” at the introduction of Thunderbolt. I honestly couldn’t tell you what any of this shit means/does now. I don’t even really know what those four ports in the back of the new iMac are or do. I just assume I’m probably gonna be on the hook for some sort of $25-50 adapter/dongle at some point.

I kinda checked out of this current port/connectivity stuff some time ago (just isn’t fun or interesting) and I figure I’ll just learn what I need when I get a 2021 era Mac at some point. Fortunately, I don’t really plug anything in to my Mac anymore so hopefully it won’t be much of an issue.

But these most recent 5-6 posts above have hurt my head.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-05-26, 10:21

PS - Might be a good time for some enterprising type to start an all-adapter/dongle business.

Dongles-R-US
Donglerama
Dongleberries
Welcome to the Dongle
Dongle Breakin’ My Heart

“Let us help fit stuff into your holes!” - Dong Masters, Inc (this may already be in use in some non-tech capacity: careful with your Googling on that one).
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-05-26, 10:58



Dongleberries

Hanging onto legacy since 1802!
  quote
chucker
 
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2021-05-26, 11:01

Dongletown (est. 2016)
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-05-26, 11:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Dongleberries
Welcome to the Dongle
Dongle Breakin’ My Heart
Those three leave little left to fill.
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2021-05-26, 14:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
USB4 Gen 3x2 is 40 Gb/s

By 4.1, you probably mean 3.1.
I believe they bumped everything up to USB4, same names and speed there was with USB3. So yes, 4.1, would be what used to be 3.1.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-05-26, 14:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I believe they bumped everything up to USB4, same names and speed there was with USB3. So yes, 4.1, would be what used to be 3.1.
Yes, but there is no USB 4.1.
  quote
drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-05-26, 17:49

It's not exactly the same but MacSales.com (aka Other World Computing) has a primer for Thunderbolt cables that has been instructive to me.



...
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-05-26, 18:49

This should be required reading for anyone buying a Mac in 2021. Great link, thanks. I know a bit more than I did this morning. Being that's my daily goal - to learn something every single day, big or small, in any topic/category/situation - this more than qualifies and makes me happy.

I live for these moments.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-06-02, 13:11

The WWDC page at Apple's site is quite a thing.

There is a blue person represented. Other than that chick in those X-Men movies, is that even a thing? That's when you just kinda go "we get it, Apple...relax".

$10 says there will still be someone crying on Twitter because [fill in the blank] isn't depicted/included.

"Yo, Apple...where the fuck is the trans Nepali differently-abled character with the bionic eye? You call that diversity?! Not a good look. #problematic"
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-06-02, 13:25

The civilization living under the ice in Antarctica need Macs too.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-06-02, 15:02

Everyone!
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-06-02, 18:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
The WWDC page at Apple's site is quite a thing.

There is a blue person represented. Other than that chick in those X-Men movies, is that even a thing? That's when you just kinda go "we get it, Apple...relax".

$10 says there will still be someone crying on Twitter because [fill in the blank] isn't depicted/included.

"Yo, Apple...where the fuck is the trans Nepali differently-abled character with the bionic eye? You call that diversity?! Not a good look. #problematic"
There are currently 7.674 billion unique diversities on the planet. That Apple has chosen to exclude the vast majority of them is #problematic. I mean, there are only ~100 diversities represented on that page (depending on how big your screen is), and I am not one of them.

*triggered*








- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2021-06-02, 22:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
There is a blue person represented. Other than that chick in those X-Men movies, is that even a thing? That's when you just kinda go "we get it, Apple...relax".
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2021-06-03, 07:18

When emojis become the highlight of a developer spoiler, you know it’s going to be a lame show. Besides, where are the pink and green hair people? Most common hair dye colours I notice here…
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-06-03, 13:13

It looks like the showstoppers will be the 14/16 MacBook Pro.

Not bad, but I was really hoping the larger iMac would have been this year's showpiece.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-06-03, 13:21

I certainly can’t figure their ways out, but it seems weird they’d release a larger, more powerfil(?) iMac so soon after the other. Seems they would’ve done it last month, or just wait until WWDC and so both.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-06-03, 13:53

Consumer systems first, followed by pro systems. This is the way™.

Consumer laptops? Check.

Consumer desktops? Check.

Pro laptops? Seems like WWDC 2021.

Pro desktops? iMac in the fall, Mac Pro WWDC 2022 (or sooner).

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-06-07, 07:21

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
When emojis become the highlight of a developer spoiler, you know it’s going to be a lame show.
Well, on a related(?) note...

They wouldn't do such a thing - and have them factoring in so prominently in the promo material - if there wasn't some big emoji/animoji/memoji/wtfoji "news" coming today. If they spend more than 30 minutes on it, then yeah...that'll be unspeakably lame. I just can't imagine that's high on anyone's give-a-shit list, other than a handful of teens. I'm hoping it's part of something much bigger/more exciting. There's talk of a big Messages update/overhaul, but even then...so what? These things already exist. Are we going to get more outfits and eyewear options? Skin tones, probably. The 17 currently available can't possibly be enough by 2021 standards.

What's funny to me is that, at some point in the past few months at Apple, all the top-level execs received an email telling them to craft a new, updated "self-oji" for some upcoming marketing materials. They actually took time to a) ask for this, and b) they all did it. You have to imagine there would be at least one defiant, above-it-all one in the bunch who responded with "piss off, I've got actual work to do, Tim...". And then he got sent to HR for a stern talking-to/re-programming and suddenly got on board.

They make everyone look like they're about 12 or so (too cute, too round/pie-faced/chubby-cheeked), so it's more of a "show us your idealized pre-teen perception of yourself". Maybe they should be called pedomoji?

PS - I've noticed, as of 9:10am ET (four hours before the presentation) that the online store is still up. I've noticed in the past that it often goes down far earlier on the day of (often down when I wake up at 5-6am), so either a) they've just not done it yet and it'll happen in the next few hours, or b) this could be a sign that it is indeed a software/preview/OS-only type of show today...all talk, all OS's and services, and no new hardware to sell.

I suppose some middle-ground answer could be "new MacBook Pros unveiled" but delayed ordering for another few weeks/months for whatever reason(s)? But use the occasion for maximum eyes/coverage, and do the whole "available for order on July 20, shipping the second week of August" type of thing. Which they have indeed done before. If the store never goes down, we still could see hardware today, but it wouldn't be immediately available for ordering/purchase. Wouldn't be the first time. *shrug*

I just thought it was interesting that the store is still up so "close" to the event time (closing in on three-and-a-half hours). That's been the case in the past, but, in recent years, they do seem to take it down very early, many many hours ahead of the event. Maybe the web guy forgot?

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2021-06-07 at 08:18.
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chucker
 
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2021-06-07, 08:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Well, on a related(?) note...

They wouldn't do such a thing - and have them factoring in so prominently in the promo material - if there wasn't some big emoji/animoji/memoji/wtfoji "news" coming today.
Eh, I dunno. Last year's WWDC featured memoji very prominently (every session video started out that way, which was kinda cute).

It's funny… the last time I noticed memoji was literally at last year's WWDC. They don't seem to be used much in my sphere. Maybe that's very different for gen Z?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
What's funny to me is that, at some point in the past few months at Apple, all the top-level execs received an email telling them to craft a new, updated "self-oji" for some upcoming marketing materials. They actually took time to a) ask for this, and b) they all did it. You have to imagine there would be at least one defiant, above-it-all one in the bunch who responded with "piss off, I've got actual work to do, Tim...". And then he got sent to HR for a stern talking-to/re-programming and suddenly got on board.
Maybe.

At this point, I imagine WWDC costs many millions to produce, what with all those session videos. I imagine any exec responding with "honestly, I'm not into it" wouldn't be very popular.

We've had Eddy dancing at WWDC. Or Steve having John Mayer play the guitar. Or Phil Schiller doing a dorky iChat video with virtual backgrounds. (Which, boy, did Apple screw that one up. They launch iChat 4 with virtual backgrounds in 2005, do nothing with it for over a decade, and then Zoom eats their lunch.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
They make everyone look like they're about 12 or so (too cute, too round/pie-faced/chubby-cheeked), so it's more of a "show us your idealized pre-teen perception of yourself". Maybe they should be called pedomoji?
Yikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
PS - I've noticed, as of 9:10am ET (four hours before the presentation) that the online store is still up. I've noticed in the past that it often goes down far earlier on the day of (often down when I wake up at 5-6am), so either a) they've just not done it yet and it'll happen in the next few hours, or b) this could be a sign that it is indeed a software/preview/OS-only type of show today...all talk, all OS's and services, and no new hardware to sell.

I suppose some middle-ground answer could be "new MacBook Pros unveiled" but delayed ordering for another few weeks/months for whatever reason(s)?
Yup.

I don't like this trend how Apple does more and more pre-announcing of products ("it's available TODAY" was a really nice touch Steve often did), but it has been a trend, so I wouldn't at all be surprised if it's available for pre-order in a few weeks, so nothing new for the store today.
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