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Adobe CEO: Mac/intel optimized CS in late 2006


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Adobe CEO: Mac/intel optimized CS in late 2006
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Swing
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2005-09-01, 11:18

For those who may be waiting for the intel Macs, you may want to consider that products such as Adobe's Creatve Suite may not be ready until late 2006: http://www.macobserver.com/article/2005/09/01.3.shtml

EDIT: My point is there is no reason to wait to buy a Mac. I didn't and I am happy I did not, regardless of when the optimized software comes out.

Last edited by Swing : 2005-09-01 at 12:26. Reason: Clarify point
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The Return of the 'nut
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2005-09-01, 11:31

Chizen is a dick.
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Batman
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2005-09-01, 12:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Return of the 'nut
Chizen is a dick.
Because?
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The Return of the 'nut
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2005-09-01, 12:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman
Because?
Because he always has been?

He's a very two faced kind of guy. He'll say one thing in public and then in an interview he'll say something completely else.

It's been pretty clear for a long time that he has little affection for Apple, the Mac, and especially Jobs.

He's a snobby prick.

If he wants to ask Jobs, "What took you so long" in regards to the Intel switch decision I turn the question right back on him in regards to porting his apps to Intel
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Swing
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2005-09-01, 12:33

Well, that "what took you so long" comment of Chizen was a bit aggressive but, hey, regardless of whether or not he is Mr. Goodbuddy, I think some Adobe apps are tremendous. And reading through the interview via the other linked pages, I do not think he was trying to slam Jobs or Apple.

Last edited by Swing : 2005-09-01 at 12:37. Reason: fix quote mark
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Batman
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2005-09-01, 12:37

I'm more of a Macromedia person myself, so I don't the Adobe news much.
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Swing
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2005-09-01, 12:40

Batman, my condolences on the Macromedia/Adobe deal. I am not thrilled by that one and thought Macromedia was just fine by itself.
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2005-09-01, 13:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Return of the 'nut
... [snip] ... If he wants to ask Jobs, "What took you so long" in regards to the Intel switch decision I turn the question right back on him in regards to porting his apps to Intel
Well, that line was intended (I think) as friendly jibe of sorts back to Jobs after he exclaimed the same thing to Chizen when Adoboe *finally* ported Photoshop to OS X.

If you're not careful we could get into the old schoolyard, "Well, he said it first!" standoff.

Last edited by Mac+ : 2005-09-01 at 13:14.
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2005-09-01, 13:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac+
Well, that line was intended (I think) as friendly jibe of sorts back to Jobs after he exclaimed the same thing to Chizen when Adoboe *finally* ported Photoshop to OS X.

If you're not careful we could get into the old schoolyard, "Well, he said it first!" standoff.

haha, that's very true. although I have always gotten a very slimy impression from Chizen.
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2005-09-01, 13:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman
I'm more of a Macromedia person myself, so I don't the Adobe news much.
You do realize Macromedia is merging with Adobe, right?

As to Chizen, recommended reading.
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2005-09-01, 13:57

Thanks for the link chucker - it didn't tell me anything I didn't suspect ... but I have *finally* added DFB to my favourites.
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Moogs
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2005-09-02, 16:59

I have no specific information on this from anyone, but using basic logic and past precedent, this doesn't seem that big a shock. CS2 was released less than six months ago. Take that, plus that fact that it's usually about 16-18 months between releases and you have your answer. 16 months from this past April is... Q4 2006. That's just the normal flow of things.

*shrug*

...into the light of a dark black night.

Last edited by Moogs : 2005-09-02 at 17:09.
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Swing
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2005-09-02, 17:21

Moogs, you're correct in terms of CS 3. I take the info to be for recompiled CS 2, unless Adobe passes on that to increase sales of CS 3.
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Moogs
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2005-09-02, 23:31

Why would Adobe re-optimize and recompile CS2 for Macintel, when there is every reason to think CS3 will run on both PPC and Macintel, given the time frames we're talking about?

In fact, I would assume that every major application from every major Mac developer will for the next four or five years, run on both PPC and Macintel. The reason for that is quite simple: it will be many years before Macintel machines outnumber PPC machines as a percentage of the total Mac base. In order for developers to make money, they will have to make their apps work well on both hardware platforms.

...into the light of a dark black night.

Last edited by Moogs : 2005-09-02 at 23:34.
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Swing
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2005-09-03, 03:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogs
Why would Adobe re-optimize and recompile CS2 for Macintel, when there is every reason to think CS3 will run on both PPC and Macintel, given the time frames we're talking about?
Because not everyone upgrades on each new release. Before I bought my 12" PB, I called Adobe and specifically asked them about their plan to support CS 2 on the new Mac intel platform. They told me yes they will support it, and that a patch would be made available quickly and for free in order to run CS 2 on the Mac intel platform. That call was the rare occasion over the past 7 years that I called a software or hardware company for any kind of support question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogs
In fact, I would assume that every major application from every major Mac developer will for the next four or five years, run on both PPC and Macintel. The reason for that is quite simple: it will be many years before Macintel machines outnumber PPC machines as a percentage of the total Mac base. In order for developers to make money, they will have to make their apps work well on both hardware platforms.
I would assume the same- for new releases. Existing apps such as CS 2 will need to be recompiled.
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julesstoop
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2005-09-03, 03:49

Isn't Adobe's problem that they either have to start using the cocoa framework or have to port their own custom frameworks in order to be able to generate universal binaries? So at the moment they are probably far from a 'simple recompile'.

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Swing
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2005-09-03, 04:29

Yeah, from what I remember at least photoshop is carbon and not cocoa. So that will not be a simple recompile (if that is correct re PS/carbon, and I am not professing to be any kind of expert in these issues).

Though I am not thrilled that CS 2 may not be available on the mac intel machines soon after they come out, via some applied patch or whatever other necessary means, it does not matter much as I can see using my PB for another 16 months (I think so now anyway- we all know how that can change) . However, I will be peeeved if Adobe does not provide some easy way to move CS 2 over to the new mac intel machines sometime after they come out, and this may be a possibility (when reading between the lines of that interview and the normal product cycle).

My point in this post was not to bitch (other than about the possibility CS 2 may not be supported on the new machines- and again Adobe told me a few months back that it would be) but rather to point out that any version of Adobe CS may not be immediately available on the new mac intel machines and, to me, that may induce some fence-sitters to just go with a new mac now, as there is work to be done before the transition is even here and then to smooth out the inevitable bumps in the road.
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Moogs
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2005-09-03, 09:56

Very few mainstream, commercial apps that had a large installed code base before OS X, are cocoa. They're almost always carbon. That is, if they were C/C++ apps before, they still are and will continue to be. Cocoa has no inherent performance benefit over Carbon. Its benefit is that when you're starting from scratch, building a new application with Cocoa is a more streamlined and efficient process than with Carbon. The benefits are generally reaped on the development side, not the consumer side. Highly tuned C/C++/Carbon code (i.e. virtually every big app we use from day to day) has no need to be re-written.

Nor does anything have to use Cocoa to be Macintel compatible AFAIK. Carbon is not going away, nor is there any reason to want it to really. As far as CS2, I would be surprised if Adobe released a Macintel version, and the idea of just applying a "patch" seems wrong to me. You probably spoke to a customer service person, not an engineer, right?

Anyway, if you're in the market for a new Macintel, you're in the market for new software AFA most commercial developers are concerned. They're not going to assume that you're willing to buy a new computer, but not new software. CS2 will most likely remain a PPC-only product but again that's just my guess. I have no specific information.

...into the light of a dark black night.

Last edited by Moogs : 2005-09-03 at 10:00.
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Batman
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2005-09-03, 11:24

Yeah, I do know that Adobe and Macromedia are "merging" (we all know that Adobe pulled a Microsoft and bought the competition). I just hope that Adobe at least has some since and kills the dreaded Go Live. Unfortunatley, that also means Fireworks is going. I could care less about Freehand.

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Swing
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2005-09-03, 11:25

If anyone can provide info as to CS2 moving to Macintel with or without Adobe's very cooperative accommodation then I imagine a few here may appreciate the information.

Moogs, when I spoke with the rep, and you are correct in that he was not an engineer, I was wondering what kind of a fancy 'patch' they would release and whether it would even be downloadable- though he said it would be. CS is not cheap software and will add mightily to the cost of any Mactel, even if it is at an upgrade price. And if you are correct, and that Adobe rep is wrong, then I regret having broken my longstanding and previously unbroken years-long string of avoiding ALL frickin' customer support reps- caveat emptor.
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julesstoop
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2005-09-03, 11:51

@Moogs. Thanks for clearing up. I allways thought that carbon was going to be lost in the transition.
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2005-09-04, 10:56

Metrowerks canned Codewarrior for OSX and AFAIK both Microsoft and Adobe use Codewarrior for the bulk of their Mac development. Therefor they most move to Xcode. I bet my right arm that Apple is involved with MS and Adobe to do some seriuos adaptation of Xcode to make their transition easier.
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JLL
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2005-09-05, 07:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing
Moogs, you're correct in terms of CS 3. I take the info to be for recompiled CS 2, unless Adobe passes on that to increase sales of CS 3.

Chizen clearly says that the Universal Binaries are new versions only.
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2005-09-05, 07:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henriok
Metrowerks canned Codewarrior for OSX and AFAIK both Microsoft and Adobe use Codewarrior for the bulk of their Mac development. Therefor they most move to Xcode. I bet my right arm that Apple is involved with MS and Adobe to do some seriuos adaptation of Xcode to make their transition easier.
Illustrator is already there. Adobe started the process to move to Xcode before they knew about the switch to Intel.

But Apple is probably helping them as much as possible.

- No matter where you go, there you are.
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Moogs
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2005-09-05, 12:10

Batman,

My personal opinion -and that's all it is- is that Dreamweaver at some point will be the product that Adobe uses for the long run. No idea what they'll call it but that's my guess. The Dreamweaver user base is much larger and while I've always been a GoLive guy, I can admit it's always been a capable program and seems to have really made strides of late...

...version 8 seems to have addressed some of the major interface weak points, added a new FTP function that doesn't lock up the whole application during upload/download, and also improved the CSS authoring, which is one of GoLive CS2's very strong points.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

...into the light of a dark black night.

Last edited by Moogs : 2005-09-05 at 12:14.
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2005-09-05, 12:56

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2005-09-05, 13:52

The irritating thing about Chizen's interview is that Jobs *didn't* say "it's soooo easy." He was pretty clear about the different levels of difficulty depending on whether the developers were using Cocoa (best), Carbon with XCode (depends), or Carbon with CW (move to XCode, and quick).

I assume Adobe's older apps, like Photoshop and Illustrator, are still developed in CW (and it wouldn't surprise me to hear if all them are), so it's going to be a sticky transition for Adobe for sure.

Late 2006, early 2007, though... bleah.

Last edited by Hobbes : 2005-09-05 at 14:07.
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2005-09-05, 14:37

It wouldn't surprise me if Apple has anticipated this and that is a major force behind putting so much resources into Core Image, Video, etc..... perhaps they are readying a competitor for Intel release?

Apple Photo Pro perhaps?

It doesn't need to be Photoshop. It needs to be what most people use Photoshop for.... and that's editing photos. That task can be done better, and I think Apple is up for it. That is what they always do. They find where they can compete, they find a weakness or a hole and something that will have the most mass appeal and they go for it.

Wouldn't surprise me at all
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Moogs
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2005-09-05, 15:02

I think the only way creative pros *would* buy it, is if it were [a professional level tool], even if not at feature parity with Photoshop. In fact it would behoove them to make something very powerful, but which does not attempt to duplicate some of Photoshop's biggest strengths. Make it a compliment instead of a competitor. The world is full of mediocre photo editing tools; they should either go with both guns blazing or leave it in the holster.

Honestly though Apple seems primed to head into this world, even if it's not in the next year or two. I wouldn't be surprised in a few years if we had Apple Photo Pro and Apple Photo Express (basically).

...into the light of a dark black night.

Last edited by Moogs : 2005-09-05 at 15:06.
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2005-09-05, 22:39

exactly. but there is a lot of photoshop that they don't need to replicate and don't really need to compete with. let adobe have those certain advantages.

the only risk is that apple takes enough sales away to make photoshop no longer viable, but then apple needs to be ready to fill those holes.

They kind of did this with Final Cut Pro as Premier died and FCP just grew rapidly
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