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Anonymous Coward
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-03-31, 14:53

Related to the discussion of boosters earlier in the thread, here is an article supporting seeking out particular immunization/booster shots: Antibodies produced after Pfizer and Moderna vaccines".

Some comments point out that the small sample size may be responsible for the results, so this or other anecdotal evidence should not be evidence that this conclusion is conclusive.

The CDC has a chart specifying which boosters are recommended. I couldn't cut and paste a formatted version of the information from the Veterans Administration website, so here is a link for the whole page , even though I just want to link to the chart in the middle of the page

Last edited by Anonymous Coward : 2022-03-31 at 15:13.
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kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2022-04-01, 07:49

The articles that I was reading stated that the sample sizes show that the 2nd booster is effective, but the group that would be seeking the 2nd booster is also more risk averse and tends to be more cautious around Covid related items in general, so the studies may not be the best.

I'm not entirely sure about how effective a 2nd booster would be, but if it's recommended, I'll probably get it.

I'm more concerned about a vaccine for my soon to be 3 year old. Really wish they'd get their shit together on that one...
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2022-04-27, 13:11

The pandemic is over in the US.

At least that is the short version of the interview. Not like most haven't already been acting that way.
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PB PM
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2022-04-27, 14:53

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Anonymous Coward
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2022-05-07, 00:52

This article seems to indicate that the Johnson & Johnson vaccine should not be the first choice, if others are available to you.

Also, the latest estimate by the World Health Organization (WHO) is that 15 million people have died from COVID-19, but the predicted deaths in China are actually lower than expected (the excess being COVID related deaths) by the information made available by that country. (There is a link in the article to the WHO spreadsheet showing the data used. The cumulative excess as of December 2021 for China is approximately -52,000, up from a maximum of approximately -309,000, and the only months in which China had excess deaths are January and February of 2020.)

Actually, this article discussing which country has the most COVID-19 deaths is better, with graphs. (Again, China is noticeably absent.)

Last edited by Anonymous Coward : 2022-05-07 at 01:03. Reason: Added a second article
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PB PM
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2022-05-07, 13:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Coward View Post
This article seems to indicate that the Johnson & Johnson vaccine should not be the first choice, if others are available to you.

Also, the latest estimate by the World Health Organization (WHO) is that 15 million people have died from COVID-19, but the predicted deaths in China are actually lower than expected (the excess being COVID related deaths) by the information made available by that country. (There is a link in the article to the WHO spreadsheet showing the data used. The cumulative excess as of December 2021 for China is approximately -52,000, up from a maximum of approximately -309,000, and the only months in which China had excess deaths are January and February of 2020.)

Actually, this article discussing which country has the most COVID-19 deaths is better, with graphs. (Again, China is noticeably absent.)
Link is broken. Is this it? https://www.bbc.com/news/health-61327778
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Anonymous Coward
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-05-07, 13:38

Sorry, let me try and fix it. That is a good article I hadn't seen, but this article , "Does the US really have the world's highest COVID death toll?' is the one I intended to link.

(I see there is an appended "%22" to the link I originally posted.)
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crazychester
Dick in the Abstentia, The
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-07-15, 18:51

Just a heads up everybody.

Don't know where y'all are at with your covid situation atm. Where I am ba 4 and 5 are hitting and aside from the hospitals being back at crisis point again there's so many people sick with it I've been struggling all week just to get ordinary day-to-day life shit done because everybody's off sick.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2022-07-15, 18:56

Symptoms basically cold still? Maybe add fever to it? I know the last I saw the symptoms were less severe than earlier strains though still catastrophic for some.
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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2022-07-15, 19:09

Here in Toronto, we ended the Covid Emergency Declaration in May.

As the media was hyping the latest variants a few days ago on TV, Mayor John Tory stood up at a press conference and said there were just four Covid patients in Toronto ICUs. Just four.

Yes, cases are climbing. But between the variants being milder and now having much better treatment options, fewer really bad outcomes seem to be happening. People are back to going outside and living life, and that's increasing cases but not overwhelming ICUs anymore.

So I don't think we're anywhere close to "crisis-point" again. ERs might be full, but those ERs were backed up long before Covid hit.

Many family doctors, including mine, are still solely doing telephone appointments.
Which means that when you really feel that you want to see a doctor in person, you head for an ER.
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-07-16, 12:01

He’s wrong. Maybe he meant just four new cases. Ontario has been steady around 100+ ICU cases for the past little while. A proportion of those are going to be at Toronto’s University Hospital Network if for no other reason than they’re one of the best treatment centres in the world. That said, I take his sentiment.

There is reason for optimism in this because test positivity is climbing, and along with waste water analysis, shows that cases are on the rise, but importantly critical illness is not overwhelming ICUs the way it had been 18 months ago. The first take away from this is that vaccine mandates work: they prevent critical illness with extremely high success.

The next learnings will be related to how long do they work? Some will begin to experience waning immunity. We know people are getting reinfected. Active infections are estimated at 3-6X the PCR test number. Wide testing is not available, but using modelling and waste water data, somewhere between 5,000-12,000 active infections are circulating Ontario as we speak. It’s not that precise, but that’s the price to be paid for limiting testing. We have yet to discover at what point do people begin to experience waning protection from severe symptoms/critical illness?

Prevailing medical opinion is that a full course of vaccination should be considered 3 doses, NOT 2, and that risks increase after 5-6 months from the last, especially for those that have not had a full course (3 doses) to begin with.

My own reading suggest that we have another 18-24 months of caution ahead of us still.
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drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2022-07-16, 12:30

Several friends who are fully vaccinated have experienced a significant case of Covid in the past few weeks, comparing it to a flu. They're on a slow climb back out of that well.


...
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PB PM
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2022-07-16, 14:45

Yes, one of my clients families had COVID sweep through them in the last few weeks. Last week all of them looked very tired, but a little more chipper this week.
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2022-07-16, 16:11

For anyone who hasn't been watching the statistics, COVID-19 related hospitalizations have been steadily rising in the US over the last several months, and it continues to kill 350 people every day on the 7-day average.

Daily hospital admissions in the US over the last year (CDC source):


Daily deaths in the US over the last year (CDC source):


Recall that the CDC's numbers are also probably conservative and under-reported. Several other sources were reporting that the US crossed the "1 million COVID deaths" line a full month before the CDC reported it.

Even if the fatality rate is low for now, "long COVID" with its nebulous "brain fog" and general fatigue for months or years after initial recovery is still very much a problem that most people seem far too happy to ignore. That there's a 10-30% chance (AMA source) of an infection leading to possible long-term cognitive impairment seems like an absurdly high gamble to unmask and mingle as if the latest strains are no worse than a common cold or flu. I guess most people aren't using their brain every day and don't mind losing some of it.

Pretty much everyone in my home town has given up on even the easiest, lowest-effort courtesies that could reduce transmission. Masks are a rare sight. Personal space in the checkout line is a luxury. This is despite my area having previously adhered surprisingly well to local government-issued mask mandates and health notices. I though I was in a lucky bubble of folks who would continue to be thoughtful and proactive. Nope. Once those mandates were officially lifted, it took a few weeks, but very soon the general population was all back to business as usual.

It's all so very depressing.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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PB PM
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2022-07-16, 16:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
uch everyone in my home town has given up on even the easiest, lowest-effort courtesies that could reduce transmission. Masks are a rare sight. Personal space in the checkout line is a luxury. This is despite my area having previously adhered surprisingly well to local government-issued mask mandates and health notices. I though I was in a lucky bubble of folks who would continue to be thoughtful and proactive. Nope. Once those mandates were officially lifted, it took a few weeks, but very soon the general population was all back to business as usual.

It's all so very depressing.
That is mostly what I've seen as well. Within days of the lifting 90% were mask free and back to the old way of doing things. My solution is limit my time in stores, and to go out when there aren't many people shopping, seems to work.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-07-16, 18:29

And yes to all the rest. Lifting of mask mandates and behavioural controls (like distancing and occupancy limits) has been premature, which has given people all the licence they need to act like everything is A-OK.

Also, it is way too early to decipher whether variants are truly “milder.” There’s considerably more vaccine protection throughout the population today than there was 12-18 months ago, before current variants existed. More analysis is needed to understand the extents to which variants have contributed to mortality as compared to vaccinated and unvaccinated populations. We are still one unfortunate mutation away from going back to square one or worse…
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
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2022-07-16, 18:49

With the acceleration of new variants/sub-variants coming, and reduced testing, it's a wonder we know much at all.

What does seem conclusive is that people over 70 (or high risk) should get all available vaccines and boosters. General conciseness I've seen is that those under 60 still have a very low chance of ending up in the ICU, if they have the first two shots and the first booster at 6 months from the booster. All bets are off for those who don't have a vaccine at all, and not so great for those with two shots, but without a booster.

Right now my Dad is debating getting the 2nd booster now, or waiting for the one that is supposed to come in the fall with Omicron protection. Not really sure what to say about that at this point.
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2022-07-17, 14:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Right now my Dad is debating getting the 2nd booster now, or waiting for the one that is supposed to come in the fall with Omicron protection. Not really sure what to say about that at this point.
I was just reading about this a few days ago: https://arstechnica.com/science/2022...ver-ba-5-wave/

Quote:
US COVID-19 cases are currently plateaued at a high level of around 117,000 new cases per day—but that's likely a significant underestimate given that many Americans are testing at home and not reporting their cases. Hospitalizations and intensive care admissions, meanwhile, are rising, with 17 percent and 21 percent increases over the past two weeks, respectively, according to tracking by The New York Times. Generally, the daily average of hospitalizations has more than doubled since the end of May, with the current average nearing 38,000.
Quote:
On Monday evening, The Washington Post broke the news that the Biden administration is considering expanding eligibility of second boosters to include all adults. The report cited five unnamed officials with knowledge of the matter, who said that Jha and top infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci support the idea of expanding second boosters to all adults.
And the most important part here:
Quote:
Jha and CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said repeatedly Tuesday that getting a booster now—or in two weeks or so—would not preclude getting a bivalent booster this fall. Their thinking is simply based on the time frame and anticipated interval for boosters.

"As we've looked at the cadence of where we've needed to get boosts before, it's been four, five months," Walensky said. "We anticipate that that's going to be a similar cadence. We also really want to emphasize that there are many people who are high risk right now, and waiting until October/November for their boost—when, in fact, their risk is in the moment—is not a good plan," she added. "So, we really do want to say 'Now get your boost. We have every anticipation that the data will suggest that you will be eligible for a [bivalent] boost in the fall.' We will, of course, continue to evaluate those data."
TLDR: You/he/everyone who can should go ahead and get boosted now and should also get boosted when the fall boosters arrive. There's no good reason to wait.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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crazychester
Dick in the Abstentia, The
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-07-17, 15:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
With the acceleration of new variants/sub-variants coming, and reduced testing, it's a wonder we know much at all.

What does seem conclusive is that people over 70 (or high risk) should get all available vaccines and boosters. General conciseness I've seen is that those under 60 still have a very low chance of ending up in the ICU, if they have the first two shots and the first booster at 6 months from the booster. All bets are off for those who don't have a vaccine at all, and not so great for those with two shots, but without a booster.

Right now my Dad is debating getting the 2nd booster now, or waiting for the one that is supposed to come in the fall with Omicron protection. Not really sure what to say about that at this point.
Just read your response to PB Brad. Yeah you're probably right. I'm in exactly PB's dads position right now and my decision is to just get the available booster now.

But I should probably add a bit to my original comment. Firstly, to remind y'all that I'm in the Southern Hemisphere so its our Winter. Of course, this is helping to fuel the spread of BA 4 and 5 because everyone's spending much more time inside with other people.

On top of that, we've had virtually no influenza in the community for the past two years because of covid restrictions. But because we have now joined everybody else in the brave new world of "living with covid", the flu is back with avengance plus a good old outbreak so RSV as well. Apparently the two flu viruses floating around are particularly nasty and, of course, they, or some mutant variant of them, are coming your way next winter.

The changing medical advice over the last few months really tells the whole story. It's basically gone like this.

About 3 months ago, they made the flu vaccine free for everybody whereas normally it is only free to the elderly. They have been strongly urging everybody to get it ever since.

About 2 months ago, they said everybody over 65 should get their second covid booster asap.

I'm 60 and had been expecting them them to lower that age limit any day. About two weeks ago they did so by announcing everyone over 50 should get their second booster asap. But in addition, they said that if you're over 30 and want to get your second booster now, you can do so. So what you say in your post Brad about Biden considering extending second boosters to everyone has effectively already happened here.

If our positions were reversed PB and it was Summer here I'm not sure what I'd do. The omicron specific boosters aren't expected to be available here until around October. Even if I could get my second booster today, if the time between when you can get your second booster and the omicron specific booster is 4 months then I wouldn't be able to get the omicron specific one until mid November anyway.

Trouble is, as things stand I'm struggling to find anywhere to get my second booster until August at the earliest because everybody's sick with bloody covid!

You really seriously could not make this shit up, eh?

But assuming they make the gap between when your dad can get his second booster and when he can get his omicron specific booster 4 months, then I'd have to agree with Brad. Get your dad his second booster asap and, with luck, he should be able to get his omicron specific booster just before winter really hits in the northern hemisphere.

That's basically my advice to everyone. As what's unfolding here now is where you're all going to be at in about six months time. Keep boosted, if you can possibly get the omicron specific booster into yourself before your winter, absolutely do so *and* make sure you're fully vaxed against the flu before your flu season hits as well.

Hope that helps.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
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2022-07-17, 19:53

Checked with my Dad, he did end up get the 2nd booster at the end of last month.
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kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2022-07-17, 22:25

We were finally able to get our 3 year old her first shot a couple of weeks ago.

I cannot even express how much relief that gave me. I understand she can still get Covid, but even having a little protection is better than nothing.

My wife has CF and our daughter hasn't been in any type of schooling, so we've been super careful over the last 2 years. Really hoping people can get their shit together so we can actually enjoy ourselves out in public again. We're slowly starting to do more and more, but it's a long slow climb back to some sort of normalcy for us.

Hell, my daughter was 8 months old when all of this started, so this is her normal....
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-07-18, 08:36

I'm reminded of something. My father died almost 5 years ago. A little while ago I found his immigration paperwork, and you know what it included? An immunization report. Not from an antediluvian times, or WW2, from the late 60's. My google-fu is not strong today, and I'd either have to wade through thousands of COVID articles or Scholarly links to find out, but I'm nearly certain this was a pre-immigration boarding requirement even then. Canada's website still lists recommended immunization practices for new Canadians, but stops short of imposing a requirement.

Then I think about all the whining that's going on regarding air-travel requirements, and I wonder when we all got to feeling so entitled about crossing international borders? It seems right to me that nations are free to impose evidence based entry requirements. I don't have a "right" to just visit any place I want, I am a guest. I expect to have a right to be treated fairly within some semblance of a common law tradition, but certainly nations have a right to make their own determinations about appropriate entry requirements and/or safety and screening practices...

.........................................
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chucker
 
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2022-07-18, 09:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
I'm reminded of something. My father died almost 5 years ago. A little while ago I found his immigration paperwork, and you know what it included? An immunization report. Not from an antediluvian times, or WW2, from the late 60's. My google-fu is not strong today, and I'd either have to wade through thousands of COVID articles or Scholarly links to find out, but I'm nearly certain this was a pre-immigration boarding requirement even then. Canada's website still lists recommended immunization practices for new Canadians, but stops short of imposing a requirement.

Then I think about all the whining that's going on regarding air-travel requirements, and I wonder when we all got to feeling so entitled about crossing international borders? It seems right to me that nations are free to impose evidence based entry requirements. I don't have a "right" to just visit any place I want, I am a guest. I expect to have a right to be treated fairly within some semblance of a common law tradition, but certainly nations have a right to make their own determinations about appropriate entry requirements and/or safety and screening practices...
There's also a vaccination schedule for kids.

I guess you could skip that as a parent, but schools might frown on that…
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
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2022-07-18, 09:11

I feel the same way about the travel issue, it seems like many people are mixing up rights with privileges. That goes far beyond air travel, to so many things we take for granted now.
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Capella
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2022-07-25, 18:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
I'm reminded of something. My father died almost 5 years ago. A little while ago I found his immigration paperwork, and you know what it included? An immunization report. Not from an antediluvian times, or WW2, from the late 60's. My google-fu is not strong today, and I'd either have to wade through thousands of COVID articles or Scholarly links to find out, but I'm nearly certain this was a pre-immigration boarding requirement even then. Canada's website still lists recommended immunization practices for new Canadians, but stops short of imposing a requirement.

Then I think about all the whining that's going on regarding air-travel requirements, and I wonder when we all got to feeling so entitled about crossing international borders? It seems right to me that nations are free to impose evidence based entry requirements. I don't have a "right" to just visit any place I want, I am a guest. I expect to have a right to be treated fairly within some semblance of a common law tradition, but certainly nations have a right to make their own determinations about appropriate entry requirements and/or safety and screening practices...
I married an Australian this year. His December medical appointment included a number of required vaccines that he either had to have already had, or the US certified immigration doctor would have to give him. Chickenpox, MMR, TDAP, etc. One of the absolutely mandatory vaccines was COVID, and flu if seasonally available (at the time for him it was summer so no). We'll require it to our immigrants to the US but not our citizens.

"A blind, deaf, comatose, lobotomy patient could feel my anger!" - Darth Baras
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