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3 kinds of people: sheep, sheepdogs, and wolves


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3 kinds of people: sheep, sheepdogs, and wolves
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Messiahtosh
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2007-05-06, 20:36

I found this to be very interesting.

http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/onsheepw...sheepdogs.html

On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman

By LTC (RET) Dave Grossman, author of "On Killing."
Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always,even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for? - William J. Bennett - in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997

One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me:

"Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another. Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.

Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful.? For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.

"Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

"Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf."

If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed

Let me expand on this old soldier's excellent model of the sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial, that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids' schools.

But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the path of denial.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."

Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door.

Look at what happened after September 11, 2001 when the wolf pounded hard on the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel? Remember how many times you heard the word hero?

Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.

Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes." The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, "Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference." When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.

There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the population. There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.

Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.

Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone and uttered the words, "Let's roll," which authorities believe was a signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers - athletes, business people and parents. -- from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.

There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke

Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.

If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.

For example, many officers carry their weapons in church.? They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.

I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"

Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for "heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids' school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them.

Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"

It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.

Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.

Gavin de Becker puts it like this in Fear Less, his superb post-9/11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling."

Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level.

And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes. If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...

"Baa."

This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.

"We are reviewing some 9,000 recent UNHCR referrals from Syria. We are receiving roughly a thousand new ones each month, and we expect admissions from Syria to surge in 2015 and beyond." - Anne C. Richard, Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration
 
Mac+
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2007-05-06, 20:57

That essay is nice enough, but I thought Stone and Parker put it more succinctly:

Quote:
... something from Team America ....

Last edited by Mac+ : 2007-05-06 at 22:00. Reason: deleted quote
 
Moogs
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2007-05-06, 21:50

Errr. I'll just skip commentary on that last post... maybe I'm getting to old but I don't really see the benefit of it.

Messiahtosh: what's your status these days? Didn't you go to some type of boot camp a few months back? Are you back in school or on active duty or what?

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Mac+
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2007-05-06, 22:00

Meh ... I'll delete the quote then. Just a more succinct presentation of the essay's main premise. That said, the thread doesn't ask a question or request comments. But, as a means for finding out about candidate M'tosh, I guess it will serve a purpose.

All I want is a simple life
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zippy
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2007-05-06, 22:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac+ View Post
Meh ... I'll delete the quote then. Just a more succinct presentation of the essay's main premise. That said, the thread doesn't ask a question or request comments. But, as a means for finding out about candidate M'tosh, I guess it will serve a purpose.
That's alright Mac+, when I read the title to the thread, that's the first thing I thought. In fact, that's good enough for me, I'm not even going to read the original post - it's too long. Long thread starters are never interesting.

Do you know where children get all of their energy? - They suck it right out of their parents!
 
FFL
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2007-05-06, 22:26

This Thread Is Useless Without Pictures.

I'll start....

 
InactionMan
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2007-05-06, 23:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFL View Post
This Thread Is Useless.
T, FTFY.

 
Schnauzer
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2007-05-07, 00:10

Only if i get to be an Old English sheep dog
 
turbulentfurball
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2007-05-07, 05:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFL View Post
This Thread Is Useless Without Pictures.

I'll start....



I see your sheep and raise you twenty:

 
Moogs
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2007-05-07, 08:37

Sheep Poker. They don't call it "Texas Hold 'Em" for nothing... look how captivated the sheep are.
 
AWR
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2007-05-07, 09:19

Well, now that we're here, let's have something to eat:

 
Moogs
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2007-05-07, 10:27

Thanks for taking any thought of productivity I had for the remainder of the morning and turning it into thoughts of food. I'm outta here lest nothing get done....

...into the light of a dark black night.
 
Chinney
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2007-05-07, 11:50

Re that original post...the analogy only works as long as the sheepdog understand that he is paid by the sheep and is ultimately under their democratic control...which means, of course, that the analogy does not really work.

So putting aside the sheep and the sheepdog (and whatever the hell happened to the shepherd)...I'll just say that the police and armed forces are necessary services in our society, as are many others. We hire them, we pay them, we make use of their services, and we recognize them. But let's not forget who is in charge.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
 
Bryson
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2007-05-07, 11:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinney View Post
Re that original post...the analogy only works as long as the sheepdog understand that he is paid by the sheep and is ultimately under their democratic control...which means, of course, that the analogy does not really work.

So putting aside the sheep and the sheepdog (and whatever the hell happened to the shepherd)...I'll just say that the police and armed forces are necessary services in our society, as are many others. We hire them, we pay them, we make use of their services, and we recognize them. But let's not forget who is in charge.
Ladies and Gentlemen. We have a winner. /\/\/\/\/\/\
 
curiousuburb
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2007-05-07, 12:18

 
digitalprimate
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2007-05-07, 13:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbulentfurball View Post


I see your sheep and raise you twenty:

Ooooh. You know I felt a bit exhausted after today's work, but your post lifted me right up!
ROFL!!! And rep goes up!
 
dfiler
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2007-05-07, 15:33

Even if this analogy were useful, the meme Grossman creates around it is frightening. He attempts to perpetuate a culture of fear and prescribes an armed class of overseers as the solution.

The worst "wolves" in history have been always been our alleged "sheep dogs", our so called protectors.
 
BuonRotto
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2007-05-07, 16:23

Yeah, hate to flirt with Godwin's law and politics but the whole people-are-sheep concept is only useful to certain political ideologies, ones that are supposed to be repulse us.

I should add that our military is comprised of the very citizens it means to protect -- and that is quite deliberate. Treating the military as any kind of social class unto itself is not only inaccurate but dangerous and contrary to the idea of the Founding Fathers. We, as "sheep" are, in fact, our own "sheepdogs," in this country (the USA) and others like us. That is, we defend and regulate ourselves, or at least we're supposed to. That's the whole point of this experiment in popular rule over the last couple hundred years.

Trust me, we don't want to be Turkey or Pakistan.
 
Mugge
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2007-05-07, 16:43

Aren't we also forgetting that we humans are actually the apex predator?

We don't go around killing our selves most of the time, but we kill other species on an industrial level. The majority of us aren't vegetarians - just ask McDonald's about that. And then consider all the species that have become extinct because our population growth has happened on their cost. And when we sometimes decide to kill each-other we also prefer to do it on an industrial scale; KZ camps, carpet-bombings, nuclear weapons, machine-guns, etc...

But I guess that when all this killing is banished to the TV and history books you kinda get somewhat distanced to it. And being nice is arguably what get you furthest in a civilised society. But that's just because we don't need to kill.

Most of us might not be capable of sufficient critical thinking, but that doesn't make us bad killers. We just need someone to tell us to do it and that it's ok. Priests and politicians usually.
 
intlplby
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2007-05-07, 19:57

how about the wolves in sheeps clothing that are sent to hunt for other wolves in sheeps clothing in the flocks of sheep abroad?

are they not wolves as well?

do sheepdogs believe in pre-emptive strikes? wouldn't a pre-emptive strike make them a wolf?

although it's a nice analogy, it's overly simplistic and it's a false trichotomy.

it kind of works if you are talking about a unified flock worldwide, but you actually have multiple flocks that are antagonistic to one another.

the fundamentalistic islamic flock and the fundamentalist christian flock are at odds with one another.

if you can have a continuum between sheep and sheepdog, why not a continuum between sheep and wolf and sheepdog and wolf..... by failing to address those possible continua you fail to address why people are outraged by having a police officer in church with a gun or a police officer in a school
 
Messiahtosh
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2007-05-07, 23:11

Yes, let's not forget who is in charge. It aint the sheep, as much as you'd like to believe that...

As for my status, I am 20 days away from shipping to Quantico for my 10 weeks of Officer Candidate School. The physical aspect of training will be a breeze, what with my 16:57 3-mile run time and all...

I'm looking forward to a hellish but worthwhile experience.

"We are reviewing some 9,000 recent UNHCR referrals from Syria. We are receiving roughly a thousand new ones each month, and we expect admissions from Syria to surge in 2015 and beyond." - Anne C. Richard, Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration
 
Chinney
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2007-05-07, 23:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiahtosh View Post
Yes, let's not forget who is in charge. It aint the sheep, as much as you'd like to believe that...
[...]
If you actually don't understand and accept that the U.S. military is ultimately under civilian control, you urgently need to be relieved of your duties. Let's hope you are just blowing steam.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
 
709
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2007-05-07, 23:26

"Ductus Exemplo"

Good luck with that.
 
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2007-05-08, 00:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac+ View Post
... [snip] ... That said, the thread doesn't ask a question or request comments. But, as a means for finding out about candidate M'tosh, I guess it will serve a purpose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiahtosh View Post
... [snip] ... The physical aspect of training will be a breeze, what with my 16:57 3-mile run time and all...
Ah, there it is. I should have laid a bet. Easy money.
 
Mugge
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2007-05-08, 03:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinney View Post
If you actually don't understand and accept that the U.S. military is ultimately under civilian control, you urgently need to be relieved of your duties. Let's hope you are just blowing steam.
I think he's talking about the politicians. Not the military.
 
Bryson
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2007-05-08, 06:31

Quote:
The physical aspect of training will be a breeze, what with my 16:57 3-mile run time and all...
You realise that the job of the training officers in Quantico is to firmly disabuse you of that notion? And indeed, the whole system is designed to "break" you and remake you the way they want?

The faster you resign yourself to that fact, the easier it'll be for you...
 
Mugge
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2007-05-08, 06:46

In other words: Do as they tell you.

 
Bryson
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2007-05-08, 07:12

Or rather: Don't assume it will be a "breeze" as they will tailor the programme to find your breaking point. And they will find it.
 
Mugge
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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2007-05-08, 08:03

But giving in too willingly is not exactly a good show either. There is some credit to being the last man standing, as long as you don't exhibit any unwanted psychological behaviour in the process.
 
Messiahtosh
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2007-05-10, 00:12

Here's what I said about my desire to serve, to a friend, online.

i feel like if i'm going to live the american dream
i have to earn it somehow, through service
i can't just accept that i'm going to have a nice life because i was born into that fortunate position
i'm lucky to have parents who paid for just about everything
and all i had to do was show up
you can't just show up in the Marine Corps
and i dont think anyone else is wrong for just living the american dream
i wish more people would want to "earn that dream"
but i can't fault them for just taking it
i do think it's a little selfish....but then it's also selfish of me to want them to do what i want them to do

"We are reviewing some 9,000 recent UNHCR referrals from Syria. We are receiving roughly a thousand new ones each month, and we expect admissions from Syria to surge in 2015 and beyond." - Anne C. Richard, Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration
 
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