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Google's ToS disallows minors from all services


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Google's ToS disallows minors from all services
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2007-05-24, 12:29

Read for yourself.

In 2.3, it says:
Quote:
2.3 You may not use the Services and may not accept the Terms if (a) you are not of legal age to form a binding contract with Google, or (b) you are a person barred from receiving the Services under the laws of the United States or other countries including the country in which you are resident or from which you use the Services.
"Services" is defined in 1.1 as basically everything Google has to offer:
Quote:
1.1 Your use of Google’s products, software, services and web sites (referred to collectively as the “Services” in this document and excluding any services provided to you by Google under a separate written agreement
I find this particularly distressing as, as I was leaving high school, teachers increasingly encouraged students to use Google, Wikipedia and other such services to do research on school subjects.

I understand Google's need to protect itself from lawsuits, but this extends all the way to Google's homepage. Meaning, strictly speaking, if I'm reading this right, you can't do any web search unless you are able to create a contract with Google, which as a minor, you can't. Having parents or teachers sign the contract can hardly be considered a solution either.
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Wyatt
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Near Indianapolis
 
2007-05-24, 12:36

They're a US company and minors can't enter into a contract in the US. This isn't that big a deal. I'd say that a lot of companies probably have similar terms of service.

Companies want us to look at license agreements and terms of service as legally binding contracts, and companies that do so are breaking the law in the US if they knowingly allow minors to agree to their terms.

This is more Google covering their ass than trying to lock minors out of their services. They know that in the US, you can be sued for anything, and it won't be long before search engines and e-mail providers are sued because they're "giving minors access" to porn or information on drugs and alcohol or exposing them to predators by allowing them to have a blog. Of course, those ideas are stupid, but Google knows that companies have lost dumber suits.

I don't think there's much to this.

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Banana
is the next Chiquita
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2007-05-24, 12:37

Seem to me they're not talking about google search but more about like gmail, calendar, spreadsheet, google group?

I say that because in section 2 they talk about how you must agree to the terms first, and I'm pretty sure I didn't agree to anything when I use Google.

On semi-related track, doesn't court of law consider enforceability of any given provision? That is, if it can be shown that it is impossible to enforce a provision, it cannot be used, correct?
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Windswept
On Pacific time
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2007-05-24, 13:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Read for yourself.

In 2.3, it says:


"Services" is defined in 1.1 as basically everything Google has to offer:


I find this particularly distressing as, as I was leaving high school, teachers increasingly encouraged students to use Google, Wikipedia and other such services to do research on school subjects.

I understand Google's need to protect itself from lawsuits, but this extends all the way to Google's homepage. Meaning, strictly speaking, if I'm reading this right, you can't do any web search unless you are able to create a contract with Google, which as a minor, you can't. Having parents or teachers sign the contract can hardly be considered a solution either.
Honestly, there is just NO way that any *teacher* would be so foolish as to sign a contract, *in behalf of a minor* who is specifically disallowed from participating in the 'terms' specified in the contract!

Not in a million years.

Well, I agree that this whole thing is a very unfortunate turn of events. But these 'terms' clearly have resulted from a raft of different lawsuits that Google obviously has been dealing with.

Frankly, I don't blame them a bit. The users, or rather, the *parents* of users, have caused this to happen with their greedy, small-minded, holier-than-thou lawsuits ("Omg, my son saw a 'really' naughty video clip! Horrors!!!" ) - and now, everyone else must suffer because of these twits.

I can tell you now, that if any of 'us' were the founders of Google, we would be instituting the exact same regulations, after being dragged through the courts by a few of these religious-right nitwits.
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Ryan
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2007-05-24, 13:01

I can't even find where I told Google my age in any of my account settings.
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cosus
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2007-05-24, 13:22

Actually, I believe, minors can enter to contracts, they are just voidable.
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Windswept
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2007-05-24, 13:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosus View Post
Actually, I believe, minors can enter to contracts, they are just voidable.


Hmm.

Sorry, but that doesn't seem to make sense to me.

I can see that a 'child star', for example, might be able to 'sign' an 'agreement' to act in a tv series; but I don't think the contract would be considered a legally-binding document unless the child's adult parent/guardian co-signed.

I could be completely wrong about that, but that's my sense of the matter.

I *don't* think, however, that the signature of a parent would be accepted for services like Google's, where underage participation is *specifically banned* by the providers of the service.

They don't *care* if a parent is willing to give permission for their kid to access Google. That same parent, down the road, would be just as likely to raise holy hell when they discover some of the things available to their kid at that site.

Banning underage participation protects the site for all those over 18. As I said, Google is only doing this because they found it necessary.

Those underage will probably still be able (illegally) to access stuff at the site; but the difference is that their parents have no right to sue if their kid was violating service terms by being there in defiance of rules.
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Nogs
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
 
2007-05-24, 15:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banana View Post
I say that because in section 2 they talk about how you must agree to the terms first, and I'm pretty sure I didn't agree to anything when I use Google.
But in section 2 of the terms of service there is also a part which says:

Quote:
2.2 You can accept the Terms by:

(A) clicking to accept or agree to the Terms, where this option is made available to you by Google in the user interface for any Service; or


(B) by actually using the Services. In this case, you understand and agree that Google will treat your use of the Services as acceptance of the Terms from that point onwards.
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joveblue
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne
 
2007-05-25, 22:42

So if someone under 18 years of age went into a shop in the US and bought something it wouldn't be considered a legally binding contract?
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Wyatt
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Near Indianapolis
 
2007-05-26, 08:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by joveblue View Post
So if someone under 18 years of age went into a shop in the US and bought something it wouldn't be considered a legally binding contract?
A purchase isn't considered a contract in the US.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2007-05-26, 10:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windswept View Post
...
Those underage will probably still be able (illegally) to access stuff at the site; but the difference is that their parents have no right to sue if their kid was violating service terms by being there in defiance of rules.
I think this is what Google's banking on. If they ban all minors then they can't be sued by the minors/parents for allowing the kids to see porn/violance/whateverthepartentsdon'twantthekidsseeing. They aren't stopping the kids from using the service and most kids will never see the ToS either. So in the real world, nothing changed. In the legal realm though, they have put a major legal barrier for disgruntled parents everywhere.

Unless Google adds credit card verification or something like that, it's clear to me this is nothing more than a legal barrier to protect their assets.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
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