[chucker]

Bush respected the outcome of the 2020 election. Trump did not.

[709]

Henry Kissinger, War Criminal Beloved by America’s Ruling Class, Finally Dies.

[psmith2.0]

I thought he died some time ago. I truly did.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by chucker Bush respected the outcome of the 2020 election. Trump did not.

Trump is deranged and childish. Nobody on the planet, at this points, needs to feign or gin up any sort of shock or surprise at anything he does or says. He’s had plenty of opportunities to act right and he refuses.

Why/how people, on both sides, take him seriously anymore is truly beyond me.

[Matsu]

I don’t know. He looks to have a real chance of winning the nomination. And if he ends up on the ballot, that’s a real problem with real consequences. Because regardless of how clownish he is, it puts his hands on a lot of levers of significant consequence.

[PB PM]

Trump has it in the bag, the republicans would be destroyed by their base if he isn’t picked.

Clown show 2.0 will be coming to an election near you. Good chance he wins that too sadly.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 Trump is deranged and childish. Nobody on the planet, at this points, needs to feign or gin up any sort of shock or surprise at anything he does or says. He’s had plenty of opportunities to act right and he refuses. Why/how people, on both sides, take him seriously anymore is truly beyond me.

I take him seriously in the sense that I think he can (and has) commit serious damage, but I was merely responding to the both-sidesism.

Like, if people want to celebrate at Bill Clinton's or Barack Obama's death, you do you, but yeah, if Donald Trump dies, my response will probably be along the lines of "eh, good riddance, I guess".

[psmith2.0]

I don't/wouldn't celebrate anyone's death. Just not wired that way. Everybody is someone's son, daughter, spouse, father, friend. I think people who do that are hopelessly tacky and not raised right.

[Matsu]

Obama has been far from immune to criticism - both legitimate and partisan, or otherwise racist and insane.

I think making fun of his manner is totally fair game. Every leader gets parodied. Being the first black American president means that sometimes parody is going to tread close to sensitivities around race, and we do live in a climate of heightened anxiety and opportunistic sensorship. But I think it should be totally OK to make fun of any President.

That said, from the perspective of his personal conduct he has always been outwardly decent, faithful to the office (and his spouse!), polite, measured, free of personal scandal, in a word... "Presidential"

If he gets a bit of a pass, more than any president in recent memory he seems to have earned it by his conduct.

[709]

Originally Posted by PB PM Trump has it in the bag, the republicans would be destroyed by their base if he isn’t picked.

This is the crux of it and why it's so hard for any politician running with an (R) next to their name to disavow Trump. He got 11 million+ more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016, and that gap is all MAGA. After seeing how Trump acted as President, after all of his buffoonery, stupidity, racism and being proved as the greatest traitor to the US to ever hold that office, they wanted another 4 years. That rabid anti-democracy 11 million holds all the cards, and a Republican cannot win an election without them. They know it, Trump knows it.

It bears repeating: The modern GOP is not a governing party. It's a grievance party. If Republican voters don't think you're hurting the right people then you may as well not run, because you'll be run out of today's GOP one way or another.

[Matsu]

Then maybe a Republican shouldn't be President.

[709]

If we had an actual democracy, they wouldn't be.

[Matsu]

Republicans have historically sought to tilt the table even further:

Gerrymandering in US

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by Matsu I know you’re not suggesting Obama is like the other two, but I’ll mention it anyway because he’s a good example of someone who gets lumped in with the rest just because partisans tend to get hurt feelings when their own get criticized. There’s simply no comparison. He was a model of decorum, manners, and statesmanship worthy of the best traditions. You don’t have to agree with his politics to recognize his conduct was generally a step above his peers.

I agree with you completely!

However, the MAGA Republicans see him as the beginning of their sorrows. You may not agree, but he was quite divisive, and not just because of the "he ain't even a city-zen" business.

Hard-core "Republicans" will cheer his death because they see him as a traitor. I know people like this — and far too many. The Clinton cabal and the Obamas are absolutely hated by the majority of Republicans, as much as Trump is absolutely hated by the majority of Democrats.

It doesn't matter if they're "on the same plane" or not, it's just how the parties have aligned themselves. The new "Republicans" see Obama and Hillary Clinton as worse than Trump (and, as far as Hillary goes, I tend to agree with them).

But, and I've said it before, I'd much rather a moderate Democrat be President than Donald Trump any day. But, Democrats can no longer get a moderate elected. Their candidate has to stand up there and whine about MAGA for three hours every news conference or they don't stand a chance.

Best of all would be someone who could take the office and not once in four years mention the other party by name, not even once!

"Here's what we need to get done! Any questions?"

[psmith2.0]

Here we go.

Another year of this…

Another four years of Trump and his immature, unhinged nonsense will only divide the joint farther. Don’t need that. No whackjob Democrat (is there any other kind at high-profile, national level?) is gonna fix that either.

Are there any normal people remaining? Electable ones? Anyone is “electable”, that’s the problem. We keep proving it.

How about Pauly Shore and Lamont Sanford? Sure, why not?

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 Here we go. Another year of this…

You love it!

All you have to do is go down and vote for Thunder Nuts or Kamala Harris.

[Matsu]

Democratic candidates whining about MAGA don't make them extreme, but it's still bad politics. They need to tell people what they're going to do for them to make their lives better. It's a wide open lane at this point because neither party is doing it.

[kscherer]

Exactly my point.

[psmith2.0]

Some of us don’t need/want politicians “doing stuff” for us. Other than maybe shut up and get out of the way a little? I don’t vote for someone based on all the nebulous shit he promises to “give” me/"do for" me. That’s high school level decision-making nobody over 30, either party, should be doing.

The best thing a professional politician can do to “make my life better” is to kinda shut up and disappear for 2-4 years. I don't "need" them in any real, tangible way, which is why I have such a damn hard time pulling the lever for any of them. It's like voting for your favorite North Pole elf...

Originally Posted by kscherer All you have to do is go down and vote for Thunder Nuts or Kamala Harris.

Ain't much I'd vote for her on. She already backed/fell into the second biggest gig in the country. Ain't much she needs from me at this point. I couldn't do any better for her. Ask her to help with some filing work, project scheduling and taxes, maybe? Occasional legal advice?

I'd probably get slapped for the "insult".

She'd be pleasant to look at, hanging around the joint, in a Pam Grier kinda way, but I know that's beneath her and I'd never do that anyway.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 Some of us don’t need/want politicians “doing stuff” for us. Other than maybe shut up and get out of the way a little? I don’t vote for someone based on all the nebulous shit he promises to “give” me. That’s high school level decision-making nobody over 30, either party, should be doing. The best thing a professional politician can do to “make my life better” is to kinda shit up and disappear for 2-4 years.

Ain't gonna happen. There is a certain class that believes themselves so superior to you that they honestly believe you cannot make it without their decision-making skills. One need look no further than your local HOA board members.

From there on up, the vast majority are nothing more than a bunch of ladder-climbing shills that figured out how to make a very good living by doing what corporate America tells them and then turning around and telling you how to live.

Yes, I know there are a few handfuls of decent politicians trying to make a difference, but I bet no one can name any of them, and certainly not at the national level.

[psmith2.0]

True. But it doesn't change my original point/belief. No elected official has ever improved my day-to-day existence in any way I'm truly aware of. And I'd never take a bag of money from any of them because I figure the "payback" is far more overwhelming. I don't wanna be on the hook to any politician (or Tony Soprano/Vito Corleone).

Sometimes favors/gifts/good deeds come with too steep a price.

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by kscherer … they honestly believe you cannot make it without their decision-making skills.

For at least 50%, or more, of the population with sub 90IQs, it’s probably true. Even smarter people are lazy, and don’t use critical thinking when doing things, so we do kind of need them.

In our last provincial election one of the right wing leaders was even bold enough to say it in not so many words. His arrogance was off the charts, and he lost, big time.

[psmith2.0]

Getting away from all this fun political talk for two minutes...

In news that's probably a shock to no one, world champion drinker/singer/songwriter, Shane McGowan, from the Pogues has died at 65. He's been a royal mess for as long as I can remember. I read an interview with him decades ago and was just astounded at how rough and crazy his life must've been. Kinda made Keith Richards look like David Cassidy.

Article/announcement at Yahoo.com.

He'd been in poor health for a long time, so it was only a matter of time, I suppose.

I saw them in some documentary a while back. And I know they made a memorable SNL appearance at one point as well, drunk off their ass. At least he was. Not really my cup of tea, musically, but I've been aware of him, and his music/bands, for decades.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by PB PM For at least 50%, or more, of the population with sub 90IQs, it’s probably true. Even smarter people are lazy, and don’t use critical thinking when doing things, so we do kind of need them.

And, the more politicians hold their hands, the more they need politicians to hold their hands.

Politicians love dumb people!