[Satchmo]

Awesome upgrade.

Too bad no tethering but not that big a deal.

Looks like nothing resolved on Flash yet.

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by Satchmo Awesome upgrade. Too bad no tethering but not that big a deal. Looks like nothing resolved on Flash yet.

I still think the lack of flash is a feature.

Hulu's the only site that uses flash that I actually want to see, and I suspect we'll see a native app from them soon, now that the iPhone supports legit video streaming.

[kieran]

Originally Posted by Satchmo Awesome upgrade. Too bad no tethering but not that big a deal. Looks like nothing resolved on Flash yet.

Flash is resolved.

It won't be on the iPhone.

[Chinney]

I may be asking a stupid question, but is there Flash support?

[Chinney]

Found the answer:

Some of the missing pieces continue to be tethering, which Apple said it's building support for but is leaving up to operators to implement; video capture; voice-dialing; background processing and of course Adobe Flash support.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/...entry_id=37068

What is it with Flash support on the iPhone and on the Touch? I may have missed this in earlier threads, but is there some technical limitation?

In any event, its a pretty big limitation. Flash is all over the Web now. I'd think that Apple would want to be out front on this.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Chinney I may be asking a stupid question, but is there Flash support?

Oh god, I hope not.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Chinney What is it with Flash support on the iPhone and on the Touch? I may have missed this in earlier threads, but is there some technical limitation?

Basically three things, IIUC:

1. Flash is a massive resource hog, which would tank battery life.
3. Flash is a closed platform and Apple of late likes to promote open web standards like HTML 5 and CSS.
2. The Flash plugin would be proprietary Adobe secret sauce, creating a big external dependency in an environment that Apple otherwise has complete control over.

[Chinney]

Originally Posted by Brad Oh god, I hope not.

Ummm. Why not? Stupid question again maybe, but I really don't understand. I have been stymied without flash sometimes on my Touch, and I don't use it that much for the Web.

[Chinney]

Originally Posted by Brad Basically three things, IIUC: 1. Flash is a massive resource hog, which would tank battery life. 3. Flash is a closed platform and Apple of late likes to promote open web standards like HTML 5 and CSS. 2. The Flash plugin would be proprietary Adobe secret sauce, creating a big external dependency in an environment that Apple otherwise has complete control over.

OK, thanks. Just an idea: Would there theoretically be a way to create an iPhone/Touch app to convert Flash? (or is this technically not possible or, perhaps, contrary to Flash proprietary rights?). I am thinking of Flip4Mac, by way of analogy.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Chinney OK, thanks. Just an idea: Would there theoretically be a way to create an iPhone/Touch app to convert Flash? (or is this technically not possible or, perhaps, contrary to Flash proprietary rights?). I am thinking of Flip4Mac, by way of analogy.

Theoretically? Sure. Realistically? Highly doubtful. To the best of my knowledge, there's no good third-party Flash interpreter even for the PC. See Gnash and Swfdec for the leading alternatives. Creating one with a reasonably high level of compatibility with current Flash objects and making it work well on the iPhone would be a Herculean feat.

Also, the previous iPhone SDK has stated:

No interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple’s Published APIs and built-in interpreter(s).

So, Apple could reject a Flash app on the above grounds, making the high development costs quite risky.

That said, it also wouldn't surprise me if the third-party players like Gnash and Swfdec are actually breaking Adobe's EULAs, as there's probably a clause or two in there somewhere about not reverse-engineering Adobe's formats and players.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Chinney OK, thanks. Just an idea: Would there theoretically be a way to create an iPhone/Touch app to convert Flash? (or is this technically not possible or, perhaps, contrary to Flash proprietary rights?). I am thinking of Flip4Mac, by way of analogy.

Flip4Mac doesn't convert anything, it just gives Quicktime the capability to understand some extra formats. The video itself doesn't change.

[Chinney]

Originally Posted by Ryan Flip4Mac doesn't convert anything, it just gives Quicktime the capability to understand some extra formats. The video itself doesn't change.

Well, that would be fine too, if it could be done for Flash. I am not demanding conversion...interpretation would be fine.

[Chinney]

Originally Posted by Brad Theoretically? Sure. Realistically? Highly doubtful. To the best of my knowledge, there's no good third-party Flash interpreter even for the PC. See Gnash and Swfdec for the leading alternatives. Creating one with a reasonably high level of compatibility with current Flash objects and making it work well on the iPhone would be a Herculean feat. Also, the previous iPhone SDK has stated: So, Apple could reject a Flash app on the above grounds, making the high development costs quite risky. [...]

Well actually I was thinking of an Apple-developed application for this particular task. I am thinking that this is going to be a significant drawback of the iPhone if Apple does not find a way to address it in one way or another. As I posted previously, Flash is all over the Web now, whether we like it or not.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Chinney Well actually I was thinking of an Apple-developed application for this particular task. I am thinking that this is going to be a significant drawback of the iPhone if Apple does not find a way to address it in one way or another.

Naysayers have been claiming that Flash would be a massive deal-breaker (bigger than "no copy and paste") since the iPhone was first announced two years ago. Unless sales figures start indicating that users are actually perturbed by the lack of Flash, I can't see Apple committing to the taking on the big technical and political hurdles that such a development would entail.

Besides, if you've ever done Java work on a Mac, you know that Apple isn't very good about keeping up to date with it's implementations of big third-party runtime engines. The thought of Apple rolling its own version of a Flash player is both tantalizing and terrifying at the same time.

Originally Posted by Chinney As I posted previously, Flash is all over the Web now, whether we like it or not.

Oh, we don't.

[Chinney]

Originally Posted by Brad Naysayers have been claiming that Flash would be a massive deal-breaker (bigger than "no copy and paste") since the iPhone was first announced two years ago. Unless sales figures start indicating that users are actually perturbed by the lack of Flash, I can't see Apple committing to the taking on the big technical and political hurdles that such a development would entail. [...]

Who's to say that sales would not be higher if Flash were available? As I said, I don't use my Touch for internet ka-noodling that much, but I still find the lack of Flash to be pretty bothersome. And I have heard others who would otherwise be interested in the iPhone mention the lack of Flash as a deal-breaker. (I was told by one person that Flash was necessary to properly use his internal business website - although I find that surprising). In any event, Flash is a reality.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Chinney Whose to say

*twitch*

I think it would be nice if Flash was at least an option - it's one that the competition will have. I mean, part of me hopes that the proliferation of mobile browsers will cause web designers to become less reliant on Flash, but I know that'll never happen anyway, so...

[Satchmo]

After a bit more research, looks like Flash will be available for the Palm Pre sometime by the end of the year. Which probably means early 2010, by which time a new iPhone/Tablet will be out.

More than likely, it'll be more powerful and combined with a Flash-lite, it'll all come together somewhere down the road. I realize the disdain of Flash by many. But it's become so entrenched with webmasters/designers, that it's become a part of the web.

[kdcny]

Originally Posted by Satchmo After a bit more research, looks like Flash will be available for the Palm Pre sometime by the end of the year.

I do hope that Flash being on all other platforms except for the iPhone will eventually result in a net 'win' for everyone. The more insistent customers are, the more Adobe will be pressured to get their product working on a variety of platforms and hardware reqs, which will hopefully result in an improvement in performance for everyone. Then Apple can say, "Well, now that Adobe's finally improved their product to the point where it won't suck out the battery life and crash the system, we'll implement it."

::sigh:: ...And they'll probably announce free unicorns, too.

The problems with Flash (in my opinion) are multiple, but of the hugest is that it's had virtually no competition, and has perpetuated inefficiency and laziness from Adobe. H.264 support was great, but from an end-user standpoint is basically the only thing I've been able to appreciate over the last few years. The things I hate? How it sucks up CPU usage on Firefox & Safari, and causes Firefox to hang constantly. Where's the streamlining & stability fixes?

[julesstoop]

A lot of what flash does on the web nowadays can be done (soon) in other ways using modern open web standards. So it's more of a convenience for developers than an actual need for content presentation. Apple is betting on the open standards to 'win'.

The only real need for flash remains with video and games, both of which can be (and are) saved by native applications. The most predominant being Apple's own iPhone Youtube app.

Please no flash on the iPhone. On the Mac it's already a big resource hog let alone on platform with about 1% of the computing power of a modern Mac.