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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2012-10-23, 13:16

No surprises, really. Specs between iPad 2 and iPad 3. Thinner, lighter is the main attraction ("thin as a pencil," "light as a pad of paper") and the price kinda of came at the end as an afterthought. At $329 they're clearly pushing the product over the price.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Last edited by Kraetos : 2012-10-23 at 18:15.
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digitalprimate
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
 
2012-10-23, 13:20

I liked the "unveiling" during the keynote. Clever!
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MBHockey
skates=grafs
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
 
2012-10-23, 13:26

The 163 PPI display and ~1.5 year old CPU kill it for me.

I'll likely pick up the next gen with proper specs. I'm sure the form factor is amazing though.

Last edited by MBHockey : 2012-10-23 at 14:42.
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screensaver400
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2012-10-23, 13:31

Would have been fine at $249 or even $299. $329 is setting it up for failure.

If it couldn't meet $299, it should have been $349.
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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2012-10-23, 13:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by screensaver400 View Post
Would have been fine at $249 or even $299. $329 is setting it up for failure.
You really think?

I must say I fail to see how an extra $30 "sets it up for failure." It'll be the fastest selling iPad in no time.
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splacid
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
 
2012-10-23, 13:49

$329 for 16GB wi-fi is at least $30 too expensive, especially considering it doesn't have a Retina display. $299 or below without Retina or $329 and above with Retina is reasonable, but $329 without Retina? Looks like I'll wait until next year.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2012-10-23, 13:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by screensaver400 View Post
Would have been fine at $249 or even $299. $329 is setting it up for failure.

If it couldn't meet $299, it should have been $349.
I'll take that bet. Where have you been the last few years?!
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Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-10-23, 13:54

So when is the iPad Nano coming?
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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2012-10-23, 14:07

Guys, you're quibbling over the cost of two pizzas plus tip here. Would $299 have made more of a splash? Sure. Does the $329 price doom this product from the get go? No, of course not.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
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Partial
Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2012-10-23, 15:10

Size:

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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-10-23, 15:11

Anyone who thought a $299-$329 8" tablet would have a 2048x1536 display (300+ ppi (!!!)) has been too long on the crack pipe.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2012-10-23, 15:43

I'll say right now, with zero fear of contradiction or being proven embarrassingly wrong 6-12 months from now, that the iPad mini, despite its "underwhelming" (to some) specs, is going to become the iPad to have. And remember, it's Apple. What we see today is only the "phase 1" approach. It'll get the A6 (or A7, by that point?) stuff, Retina Display, etc. That's how Apple always does. It'll only get better. It was just a year ago that this display/resolution was "perfect" for the entire planet, remember? Surely we're not that spec-crazy and "unable to go back"?

But size and cost are going to be huge, and not to mention the fact that it supports so many apps right out of the box. That's why people buy this stuff...not because of the processor or screen resolution it sports.

Look, the Retina Display is nice. I've used them. I've had one on my iPhone since September 2010. Fine.

But let's knock it off with the "it's the only way to go and it changes everything!" stuff. For most people, they couldn't tell a difference. I've got regular access to an iPad 2 and a current-generation iPad. I honestly can't tell that big of a difference. And I'm looking for that stuff! So don't tell me Grandpa Fred and Aunt Joan are going to give two rips about stuff like this. Hell, I don't even care (and I should, based on demographics/background ). All they know is they can get an iPad - a real iPad! - for $300 or so and it does everything just the way it's supposed to. End of story. It's an iPad, just cuter and smaller.

And if you think "cuter and smaller" doesn't count for much, then you've simply not been paying attention these past several years. Geeks can bitch and whine about specs and performance nine ways to Sunday. The average joe on the street couldn't care less.

In fact, I think Apple kinda had to upgrade the full-size iPad today just to give it an honest shot against the mini. I think if they'd left the full size at the previous specs and not boosted it some, the migration to the mini would've been thunderous and catastrophic.

A year or so from now, it'll be the mini you see everywhere, I'm betting. The full-size model will still be popular, just like the 15" and 17" MacBook Pros and classic iPods are...to certain types of users. But the rest of the planet seems to have, for the most part, checked the box for "small, light, cute and nimble" (MacBook Air, iPhones, etc.). I think that bodes well for the iPad mini, despite whatever gripes and quibbles the propeller-head set (whose opinions and insight rarely count for much in the real world, and that's been proven over and again for the past five solid years) may have. As we speak, some know-it-all for some tech blog is writing a soon-to-be-hilariously-debunked piece about how the iPad mini is a "colossal failure"...and base his entire premise on stuff real people, with real money to spend, never consider or care about.

It's a hit, mark my words. The accessory market on this will be through the stratosphere...we're gonna puke from all the cases, sleeves, bags, stands, etc. made for this thing.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2012-10-23 at 15:51. Reason: Thanks, chucker... :p
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2012-10-23, 15:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
the iPod mini
Heh heh.

Last edited by chucker : 2012-10-23 at 16:10.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2012-10-23, 15:49

It's easy to do.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2012-10-23, 16:10

Indeed — and for good reason. The iPad mini could be to the iPad what the iPod mini was to, well, y'know.

And, if you recall, that, too, was considered "too expensive".
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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2012-10-23, 16:14

It's iPod mini all over again. It's like people who follow Apple have amnesia, or something.

Give it 12 months, they'll sell another hundred million, no problem. And most of those will be iPad minis. Give it 24 and the majority of iPads will be mini.

I'm still skeptical about the experience of using shrunk apps, but I suspect most people won't care. I'll never own an iPad mini, but I'm not most people.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-10-23, 16:21

And I'll never own an iPad - it's too damn big.

This is exactly what I've been waiting for. Small and light, and most importantly, portable (in the sense that it'll fit in my man-bag or cargo shorts. My Kindle Fire fits with some room to spare, so I think this'll be just right).

So it goes.
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2012-10-23, 16:22

They'll sell like nuts. This much is guaranteed. But even with that, I still think they're $30 too much. Might only be two pizzas and a tip, but still…

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2012-10-23, 16:51

I agree, it is a weird price, and I know that it was calculated to hit a certain margin. I get the feeling that $299 was floating around, but Cook said "margins too slim, we need to hit 30%."

Still, it's just $30. Isn't gonna stop anyone who was already waiting for one, and Apple knows it.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2012-10-23, 16:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
…and Apple knows it.
Ding, ding, ding!

It's what happens when the bean counters take over.



I've been resisting the "Things 'r changin' now that Steve's gone" BS, but Steve wasn't a bean counter. Hopelessly pragmatic, incredibly intelligent, unceasingly focused, difficult to work with, but he was no bean counter.

Today's announcements were made by bean counters!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2012-10-23, 16:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Anyone who thought a $299-$329 8" tablet would have a 2048x1536 display (300+ ppi (!!!)) has been too long on the crack pipe.
I thought a 1024x768 7.9" tablet would have been $249 to compete with cheaper $199 7" tablets from other sources. $329 is a bit too much when you consider an iPad 2 is $399.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-10-23, 17:12

I guess it depends which angle you're coming from.

a) If you think the larger iPad is a more desirable product, then the $70 difference looks weird - because why not just get a 'real' iPad for a few coin more / the mini should be way cheaper.

b) If you think the smaller iPad is a more desirable product, then the $70 difference looks fine - it's just a smaller, lighter iPad 2 after all (with a few hardware/software extras compared to the large iPad (camera, Lightning, Siri)).


Me, I'm squarely in the b) camp, and have been since the iPad was introduced.

So it goes.
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2012-10-23, 17:17

I'm also in 709's b)-camp, although I still think $100 is better than $70.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-10-23, 17:21

Well, sure. I'm justifying the extra 30 bucks by telling myself Siri and the better cameras are at least worth that.
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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2012-10-23, 17:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
b) If you think the smaller iPad is a more desirable product, then the $70 difference looks fine - it's just a smaller, lighter iPad 2 after all (with a few hardware/software advantages over the larger iPad (camera, Lightning, Siri)).
Bingo.

This goes back to the big point I was trying to make in the speculation thread: the iPad mini's headline feature is not it's price. It just isn't. If it was, it would be $299 or $249.

This shouldn't surprise anyone, because Apple pitches products on their price just about never.

No, the headline feature of the iPad mini is the fact that it's mini. Same as the iPods mini and nano, same as the Mac mini. Apple doesn't make cheap. They make small. Sometimes small and cheap line up, like with the iPod nano. Sometimes they don't, like with the iPhone 5. But the point here is that Apple didn't set out to make a cheaper iPad... they set out to make a smaller one, and then when all was said and done, the fact that it was cheaper to make was something of a semi-intentional side effect.

Don't think of the iPad mini's size as a compromise they made to get the price down, because Apple doesn't make compromises to keep the price down. No, think of the iPads mini's price as a happy coincidence due to Apple wanting to make a smaller, thinner iPad.

Or, think about it this way: I'm sure Apple could have gotten the price down to $299 if they wanted, by cutting corners somewhere. The cameras, the screen, the processor, the storage, the RAM, whatever. If Apple wanted to make a $299 iPad mini with a 30% margin, they could have. But they didn't. They made the iPad they thought was ideal for the person who wanted a smaller iPad, and then they priced it accordingly.

I'm not saying that price wasn't a consideration for this iPad, I'm saying it wasn't a primary consideration. After all, they spent pretty much the entire presentation talking about it's size, but the price almost seemed as if it was an afterthought. Nothing like the original iPad intro, where the $499 price was a big unveiling, because they knew it would make a splash.

They knew $329 wasn't going to make a splash, so they didn't push it.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Last edited by Kraetos : 2012-10-23 at 17:36.
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Chinney
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
 
2012-10-23, 19:17

I think that the new iPad Mini will be popular and successful, but there is is no way, in my opinion, that it will outsell the full sized iPad. For many, the iPad has become a laptop substitute, while still being small enough to be truly portable. The iPad Mini can't fulfill that role. Smaller tablets have their uses, and their market, and I am glad that Apple is going to serve that market with what looks to be an excellent product. But in my view, Apple hit the sweet spot with the original basic dimensions of the iPad in the combination of capability with portability.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
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thegeriatric
geri to my friends
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Heaven
 
2012-10-23, 19:35

It will sell like there's no tomorrow, had hoped for a slightly lower price, but have to remember it's Apple we're talking about.

I still want one, but think it's a shame there's no 8GB version, it could have been a way to hit that sweet spot under 300.

I used to be undecided.....But now I'm not so sure.
No trees were harmed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2012-10-23, 19:38

@Chinney

I agree with you.

I think the full size iPad is the perfect size. I think it's silly to cough up that much screen space to save $70 and a few ounces.

But I am wrong. To play devil's advocate, most people said the exact same thing about the iPod when the iPod mini came out. That the iPod was the perfect tradeoff between size, price, and capacity, and nobody in their right mind would give up 11 GB to save only $50.

They were wrong, the iPod mini was outselling the iPod classic in less than a year, and the iPod classic never reclaimed the top spot.

For all this talk about Apple now being run by an operations guy, a "bean counter" as it were, Apple still excels at knowing they are right about what the "average person" wants, when the rest of the technology world is wrong. Small and light is worth way more to most people than everything else the full-sized iPad offers.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
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torifile
Less than Stellar Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Durham, NC
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2012-10-23, 21:26

Hmm. Earlier, I was very disappointed in the price, but then I read the hands-on at the Verge. And, sure enough, it's not a cheap iPad. It's a smaller iPad. That's a very important distinction.

The "competition" is cheap. They look cheap, feel cheap, are cheap. The iPad mini? Premium product with fit and finish only Apple could do. And at a relatively affordable price. This thing is going to sell like hotcakes over the next several quarters. Can you imagine how many kids are going to get one? It's going to be nuts.

Apple will earn all the money in the holiday quarter. All of it. Looking forward to their 1st quarter guidance on Thursday. It should be interesting.

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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Dorian Gray
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2012-10-24, 04:06

This will sell like crazy. I disagree with Chinney that it won’t outsell the full-size iPad. It will, simply because it’s cheaper yet still an iPad.

Low-cost + Apple = unbeatable. It’s that simple.

To say it’s not quite cheap enough because it’s slightly more expensive than various 7-inch tablets no-one’s ever heard of misses the point, which is this: people will think it’s a bargain, buy it in droves, and love it.

You’d think that competitors might have picked up their game after a decade of being schooled by Apple, but nope: the last time I was in a computer shop I looked at rows of tablets, ultrabooks, notebooks, desktops. Junk, junk, and more junk. It’s astonishing. I know these guys can’t compete on software or design, but why not at least use decent materials and make something that doesn’t creak when you pick it up?

In contrast, a premium tablet at $329 that oozes quality will be seen as the steal it is.
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