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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2012-10-24, 04:19

As for the product itself, I like that too.

The only thing missing is a Retina display. I know pscates2.0 is unconvinced by Retina displays, but I love the way text looks on them. It’s just so crisp and clear, and fonts take on a new beauty. Almost as good as the printed page.

The display will still be beautiful: it’s an IPS panel, it will have a good backlight like all Apple displays, it will be decently calibrated and profiled straight from the factory like all Apple displays, and iOS will make text and images look great as it always does.

The low weight is brilliant. A 10-hour battery life, 7.9-inch IPS display, great materials, and 308 g? That’s impressive, make no mistake.

I really want one, to be honest. I never could justify a full-size iPad, since how do you carry the darned thing? And it’s impossible to use with one hand. It was beautiful, certainly, but not practical for me. This is different, and I’m at grave risk of splurging on it.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2012-10-24, 04:25

I may get one at some point. I took the measurements from Apple's site and cut it out of a piece of paper and that's a nice, comfortable size! Retina or not (I don't hate them, but I wouldn't say "no" to a purchase because it lacked it). They do look nice, but, then again, we went for thousands of years with non-Retina screens, so I'm just not ready to go the "Retina or bust" route. I don't mean to give the impression that I'm "anti-Retina" or anything, because I'm definitely not.

I just put it a bit further down my list of "must-haves" than others, that's all.

I've talked to a few people today and I think this thing is going to be beyond huge...
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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2012-10-24, 05:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I took the measurements from Apple's site and cut it out of a piece of paper and that's a nice, comfortable size!
I did something similar with today’s sushi junk mail. It’s about the size of a (very thin) novel. And finally, about the weight of a novel too.

I might end up with one of these, despite the missing Retina display. Apple will probably give it a Retina display fairly soon, so that should give me pause (I tend to keep my Apple products for years). But I want this stupid thing now!
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thegeriatric
geri to my friends
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Heaven
 
2012-10-24, 05:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I may get one at some point. I took the measurements from Apple's site and cut it out of a piece of paper and that's a nice, comfortable size! Retina or not (I don't hate them, but I wouldn't say "no" to a purchase because it lacked it). They do look nice, but, then again, we went for thousands of years with non-Retina screens, so I'm just not ready to go the "Retina or bust" route. I don't mean to give the impression that I'm "anti-Retina" or anything, because I'm definitely not.

I just put it a bit further down my list of "must-haves" than others, that's all.

I've talked to a few people today and I think this thing is going to be beyond huge...
Having compared both types of screen side by side, I came to the following conclusion the Retina display looks nicer, but the difference is not so great as to be a must have. So I'm with you on this one.

I used to be undecided.....But now I'm not so sure.
No trees were harmed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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MBHockey
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
 
2012-10-24, 05:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
Hmm. Earlier, I was very disappointed in the price, but then I read the hands-on at the Verge. And, sure enough, it's not a cheap iPad. It's a smaller iPad. That's a very important distinction.

The "competition" is cheap. They look cheap, feel cheap, are cheap. The iPad mini? Premium product with fit and finish only Apple could do. And at a relatively affordable price. This thing is going to sell like hotcakes over the next several quarters. Can you imagine how many kids are going to get one? It's going to be nuts.

Apple will earn all the money in the holiday quarter. All of it. Looking forward to their 1st quarter guidance on Thursday. It should be interesting.
Maybe I just had ridiculous expectations for this iPad mini, but it seems it is "cheap". Look at the components they are using! The A5 came out in March 2011 and the screen has the same PPI as the iPad 2 and pre-retina iPhone.

I imagine these components are relatively cheap nowadays.

Without a doubt this thing is going to be a massive success. I can't wait until one with an A6 and retina screen.
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torifile
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2012-10-24, 07:31

My only concern about the mini is the non-retina screen. I find that I read an awful lot on my iPad and I don't have to zoom at all. On my iPad 1, I had to zoom quite a bit to get readable text. The smaller size + the lower PPI screen makes me pause. But only for a minute.... I'm thinking about selling my iPad 3, getting a mini and putting my iPad 1 back into use for times I need a larger screen (when I take notes in session, having a larger screen to write on is invaluable).

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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Jason
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Join Date: Oct 2004
 
2012-10-24, 08:23

For me, the non-retina screen is a deal breaker. I do an awful lot of reading on my iPad (must have about 80-90 novels in my library) and the idea of using the older resolution is just, well, going backwards.

I also don't agree with the idea that there is very little difference between the different screens. Load up a book in iBooks and the difference is very apparent to me. Non retina iBooks look like shit.

When I'm asked to pay more for an e-book than a printed edition, I want the text quality to be absolutely perfect.

I appreciate that Apple couldn't have a retina screen at that price point right now and for others who play games and surf the web and stuff, it won't be a problem anyway.

This time next year, I'm sure the mini will also have the retina screen.
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ronmexico
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2012-10-24, 08:55

I'm not that impressed with the iPad mini. Unlike the iPad, the mini has competition. This is a no man's land price point. The only reason I would want a smaller iPad is for my kids, and I don't want to spend $330 for it.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-10-24, 09:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
This time next year, I'm sure the mini will also have the retina screen.
I'm guessing more like 2 years. Sure the screen tech is there already, but there's no way Apple is going to cram all the power needed to run it in such a small package (without bulging out the back, possibly), never mind keeping it at the magic "10 hour battery life."

Don't get me wrong, I'd happily pay an extra $100 premium for it right now if it had a retina display. Sadly, I don't think we're there yet. If we were, the full-sized iPad(4) would be just as thin as today's mini.

So it goes.
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splacid
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
 
2012-10-24, 09:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
My only concern about the mini is the non-retina screen. I find that I read an awful lot on my iPad and I don't have to zoom at all. On my iPad 1, I had to zoom quite a bit to get readable text.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
For me, the non-retina screen is a deal breaker. I do an awful lot of reading on my iPad (must have about 80-90 novels in my library) and the idea of using the older resolution is just, well, going backwards.
Reading text is exactly the reason I decided to pass on the iPad mini this year. Gruber mentioned rendered text looks like it did on the iPhone 3GS display, which I can't imagine going back to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronmexico View Post
I'm not that impressed with the iPad mini. Unlike the iPad, the mini has competition. This is a no man's land price point. The only reason I would want a smaller iPad is for my kids, and I don't want to spend $330 for it.
Apple may sell a ton of them over the holidays, but as others have mentioned, the pricing seems off and somewhat transparently aimed at maintaining margins (especially in light of using an A5 chip instead of an A5X or A6 and a non-Retina display). The white model is gorgeous, though.
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ezkcdude
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Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2012-10-24, 09:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
For me, the non-retina screen is a deal breaker. I do an awful lot of reading on my iPad (must have about 80-90 novels in my library) and the idea of using the older resolution is just, well, going backwards.
Right, but you (and I) already have iPads. We're not the target market here.
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ezkcdude
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Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2012-10-24, 09:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBHockey View Post

Without a doubt this thing is going to be a massive success. I can't wait until one with an A6 and retina screen.
This will happen when the new iPad has a super-duper retina screen and an A7. They're going to keep the iPad mini a step behind, otherwise, it will have lower profit margin and cannibalize iPad sales, which would be bad.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-10-24, 09:44

Or they keep the 16/32GB minis without retinas at $329/$429, then move to retina displays starting with 16GB $429. Just like the iPad2 still being around.

I can't see them ever going above 2048x1536. There's no reason to (at these sizes).

So it goes.
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-10-24, 10:11

What sort of resolution would it need to achieve the right sharpness for Retina users? I'm guessing about 1440x1080, give or take? But does that create issues with the way iOS apps get scaled?

I sort of like the iPad mini, but my wide is a fan of the large screen Retina, so that'll be the one to get for us.

.........................................
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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2012-10-24, 10:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezkcdude View Post
This will happen when the new iPad has a super-duper retina screen and an A7. They're going to keep the iPad mini a step behind, otherwise, it will have lower profit margin and cannibalize iPad sales, which would be bad.
Actually I think the whole point is that it is going to cannibalize normal iPad sales, Apple knows it, and that's why it has the goofy $329 price. They had to keep the margin on the thing at 30%, just like the normal iPad, because that way Apple doesn't care which one sells better—they make their cut either way.

I doubt the minis get retina next year. Retina is expensive, both from a money perspective and an engineering perspective. The A5 cant drive 2048x1536, nor can a battery that size and weight deliver 10 hours, with a retina display.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-10-24, 10:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
What sort of resolution would it need to achieve the right sharpness for Retina users? I'm guessing about 1440x1080, give or take? But does that create issues with the way iOS apps get scaled?
Same screen used in the iPhones 4-5 (326 ppi = 2048x1536). It's not the display that's the hold-up, it's the guts needed to run it.
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ezkcdude
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Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2012-10-24, 10:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
Actually I think the whole point is that it is going to cannibalize normal iPad sales, Apple knows it, and that's why it has the goofy $329 price. They had to keep the margin on the thing at 30%, just like the normal iPad, because that way Apple doesn't care which one sells better—they make their cut either way.
That's fine with me as long as the margins are similar.
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torifile
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2012-10-26, 07:54

Pre-orders are open. I ordered a 32 gig LTE model. I'm not sure if I want it but I figured I've got a little while to decide. I feel like I should have one because I need to see how my app will run on it (seriously) but I'm not sure where it'll fit into my life, so to speak.

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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Partial
Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2012-10-26, 09:13

The PPI thing is super weird for me. They took care to maintain the same PPI on the iPhone 5 for drawing purposes, etc (I would assume). They broke the PPI with the new iPad compared to the old one, so tap targets are not the same size, etc. I don't think it's a huge deal, it is just... interesting I guess.

I don't get why they didn't take the rPPI/2 * 7.8 inches and use whatever resolution that is. That way, when they do go retina, it still won't be as high res the big bad boy.

...and calling/e-mailing/texting ex-girlfriends on the off-chance they'll invite you over for some "old time's sake" no-strings couch gymnastics...
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Yontsey
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cleveland-ish, OH
 
2012-10-26, 10:14

I really like the new iPad Mini, and the iPad 4 for that matter, but it doesn't seem that big of an improvement over the iPad 2 to consider an upgrade. I love my iPad 2. Behind my iPhone, it's probably the 2nd best/favorite piece of technology I've purchased but it just seems like one of those products that's so perfect to begin with it's hard to improve on. The retina screen, RAM, and processor aren't really that big of a deal to me and I have a 3G model but basically never have used the cellular data.

Die young and save yourself....
@yontsey
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Brave Ulysses
BANNED
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2012-10-26, 10:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Partial View Post
The PPI thing is super weird for me. They took care to maintain the same PPI on the iPhone 5 for drawing purposes, etc (I would assume). They broke the PPI with the new iPad compared to the old one, so tap targets are not the same size, etc. I don't think it's a huge deal, it is just... interesting I guess.

I don't get why they didn't take the rPPI/2 * 7.8 inches and use whatever resolution that is. That way, when they do go retina, it still won't be as high res the big bad boy.
but then existing apps would not have worked.

Apple had its hands tied here due to the limitations of iOS.

It's actually amazing that this technical limitation of iOS has dictated so much for Apple. I don't think we would have even seen retina displays yet if iOS was resolution independent.
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hflomberg
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Denver, Colorado
 
2012-10-26, 11:55

I have my iPad 2 sitting on my desk next to me. That is it's usual position. I resisted getting an iPad 3, I saw no advantage to it. Now the mini is really beckoning to me. I don't know why. But I hear its call.

How do you read 80 column cards on this computer?
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Chinney
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
 
2012-10-26, 12:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian Gray View Post
[...]
I really want one, to be honest. I never could justify a full-size iPad, since how do you carry the darned thing? And it’s impossible to use with one hand. It was beautiful, certainly, but not practical for me. This is different, and I’m at grave risk of splurging on it.
I carry my iPad 2 pretty much everywhere, in my briefcase or 'man bag'. It is much lighter and smaller than a laptop, but at the same time I can touch type with it. I write memos on it and long e-mails, and do much, much else. It has a great display for web-browsing, without forcing me to squint or to see only a small portion of the page at one time. I could go on.

The Mini looks to be a great addition to Apple's line-up and I can see it being attractive if it is not your 'everything' device, but it would not be the right size for my needs.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
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Satchmo
can't read sarcasm.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
2012-10-26, 12:32

I think the challenge Apple faces is that they're locked into only two possible resolutions. In order to maintain compatibility with all their apps, it's either retina or half of retina, which is what we have in the iPad mini. Of these have benefits to users and developers alike.

But unlike Android tablets, there is no middle ground or wiggle room. They can go willy nilly without a regard for standard ratios and resolutions.

A retina display on an iPad mini would be awesome. I'm looking at my iPhone 4s and if they can have a retina display using the A5 chip, shouldn't they be able to put it in the iPad mini? Although there's a quite a bit more pixels to drive.
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Brave Ulysses
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2012-10-26, 12:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satchmo View Post
I think the challenge Apple faces is that they're locked into only two possible resolutions. In order to maintain compatibility with all their apps, it's either retina or half of retina, which is what we have in the iPad mini. Of these have benefits to users and developers alike.

But unlike Android tablets, there is no middle ground or wiggle room. They can go willy nilly without a regard for standard ratios and resolutions.

A retina display on an iPad mini would be awesome. I'm looking at my iPhone 4s and if they can have a retina display using the A5 chip, shouldn't they be able to put it in the iPad mini? Although there's a quite a bit more pixels to drive.
it's not a problem of whether than can or not. It's price.
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MBHockey
skates=grafs
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
 
2012-10-26, 13:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezkcdude View Post
This will happen when the new iPad has a super-duper retina screen and an A7. They're going to keep the iPad mini a step behind, otherwise, it will have lower profit margin and cannibalize iPad sales, which would be bad.
I agree, but for me a retina screen is much more desirable than the newest chip. I hate reading on my girlfriend's iPad 2 because the fonts are so jagged compared to my iPad 3. As long as the mini gets a higher PPI at some point, i'll be on board.
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Wyatt
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Near Indianapolis
 
2012-10-26, 13:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBHockey View Post
I agree, but for me a retina screen is much more desirable than the newest chip. I hate reading on my girlfriend's iPad 2 because the fonts are so jagged compared to my iPad 3. As long as the mini gets a higher PPI at some point, i'll be on board.
It's already higher than on the iPad 2. It's probably worth checking out once your local stores get demo units.
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MBHockey
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
 
2012-10-26, 14:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyatt View Post
It's already higher than on the iPad 2. It's probably worth checking out once your local stores get demo units.
Yes but it's significantly closer to iPad 2 PPI than iPad 3 PPI, which means fonts will look much more like iPad 2 than iPad 3. I will definitely take a look though.
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Brave Ulysses
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2012-10-26, 18:56

The presale shipping estimates do raise the question of what's going on with supply. Is the white iPad vastly more popular? Did Apple produce drastically less white? Is Apple just focusing on delivering more black models at first?

Strange that the black is still no shipping delay and the white switched to 2 weeks within 17 minutes of going on presale.
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Noel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago
 
2012-10-26, 19:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
The presale shipping estimates do raise the question of what's going on with supply. Is the white iPad vastly more popular? Did Apple produce drastically less white? Is Apple just focusing on delivering more black models at first?

Strange that the black is still no shipping delay and the white switched to 2 weeks within 17 minutes of going on presale.
I was talking to an Apple Genius today, who said that, at least in the main Chicago store, white iPads tend to be slightly more popular than black, while black iPhones tend to be slightly more popular than white — although in both cases the split is pretty near 50/50. I wonder if maybe there were some issues with discoloration on the white minis? Wasn't that the reason it took so long for white iPhones to become available, to pscates' chagrin?
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