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I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Berkeley
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/stor...p-265717c.html
http://www.triroc.com/wtc/ So, Donald Trump has decided to back and push for a design from a different architect and engineer. The design mirrors the old twin towers but is modernized and larger. I have to say, I like this plan and design better than the freedom tower. Especially since Freedom Tower is a retarded name. The whole concept of the freedom tower and accompanying complex seemed weak to me. The design has trump says seemed like a skeleton. It also seemed pushed through simply so Pataki and Bloomberg would leave their mark on it. Before today I was never much of a supporter of the idea to simply rebuild them, but after seeing the mockups and models of this new design I have to say its the first one that really made me feel good and that I truly liked and would feel comfortable seeing everyday when I look out my window and see the twin tower's replacement. Everyone is of course different, but this design would get my vote. |
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Finally broke the seal
Join Date: May 2004
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meh. i wasn't a big fan of the other plans, but i do think the towers should look different than before.
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Not sayin', just sayin'
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It's horrendous, and so was the original.
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Berkeley
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I knew you would say something along those lines. The fortunate thing that I think can come from this and from Trump putting some money and publicitity behind it is that it may open up the process to some more ideas. I have a feeling, the public of NY will get behind this design quite a bit more than the Freedom Tower design. This idea lacks imagination and doesn't do architectural justice to NY but the Freedom Tower idea sucks more at this point. |
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I KNEW in the back of my head that when the freedom tower got scrapped that Trump and his combover were going to weasel in on the redesign. The guy amazes me. How many businesses does he have to have go bankrupt before people realize he's a hack?
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Senior Member
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Don't worry they'll probably never build anything there cause of all the BS that goes with getting these plans approved. I have always supported rebuilding the towers more or less as they were because i don't know i think that shows how strong you are
Comic sans sucks. That is all |
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Unfortunately instead of healing our wounds, making our peace with the governments of the world, and apologizing (yes, apologizing) where appropriate, the US government used the events of september 11 to remove freedom under the guise of security, scare the crap out of the citizenry, and proceeded to delare war on everyone we haven't bought yet. I think the Freedom Tower is the perfect replacement for the twin towers because, like the patriot act, it represents not what america aspires for, but what it has become. Like Trump says, "Why are we building this monstrous 'skeleton' known as Freedom Tower? If Freedom Tower is built, the terrorists win." The terrorists won already! We're terrorized! That's why The Dept Of Homeland Security exists. Thats why we'll continue to elect racist white men with bankrolls and tunnel vision to run the country. And that's why we don't deserve another twin towers. |
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Finally broke the seal
Join Date: May 2004
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the old ones were pretty drab. besides: its ~4years later, and we've yet to approve of plans to build (WTF). do we want to finish rebuilding babble and years years later and saying, "yea, you knocked us down for a decade there. but look {licking wounds} we're almost just like before." real estate takes a hgue amount of time to construct. i think we have to put somethign different there, or the old ones should have been re-up'ed already. also, i think the image of the old towers is too emotional for a lot of people still; particularly new yorkers. |
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Multi-touch Piñata
Join Date: May 2004
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I originally wanted the towers to be redone, but it's already so late (cooler heads prevailing, and all), I don't want them anymore.
But I despise Lebskind "anything". Let him shit elsewhere. |
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meh
Join Date: May 2004
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I support Trump for once! Actually, I never supported the Freedom Towers. Ugly design, not as strong as originals( I mean the majority of the building is glass over steel by the looks of it), and these towers would never be as symbolic as the original twin towers. What if the Washington Monument collapsed? Would we redesign it? I would think not. I think if any symbol to this country, was attacked and collapsed or been destroyed, that we should rebuild them like they were before, but with major improvements to make it more resistant to future attacks. There was nothing wrong with the originals, the only thing is that the designers cut corners to save money. The dry wall protecting the core, the fireproofing was not the best, and more.
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giggity |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Massachusetts
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I not necessarily behind one plan or the other. Do think that the WTC should be rebuilt. Just not the original design, it should be a modern design.
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meh
Join Date: May 2004
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Both the Freedom towers and this newly redesigned Twin towers would be the tallest in the world. When/if completed. |
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is the next Chiquita
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Ahhhh..... Nothing like a little compensating....
[Clint Eastwood] think you can stop me, ya dirty rat? Well, here's a piece of action for ya! [/Clint Eastwood] |
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Hates the Infotainment
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
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Trump is latin for douche bag. Good thing Daley got the last word on his building in Chicago... heheheh... toupe bitch.
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Berkeley
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It is simply your opinion that they were horrendous. I always thought they had an understated beauty and power to themselves. They certainly defined the NY skyline and anything else simply would not be the same. Maybe things shouldn't be the same, who knows, but if you are going to rebuild and you are going to claim to have an open design process with the public's opinion taken into account then you better listen to the public. The first politician that jumps behind this plan and Trump is going to gain great public respect and most important votes. Pataki is in a very tough position right now. Trump just screwed him. For Pataki to go forward with the terrible Freedom Tower plan would mean he would have a hard time winning any future election. It's simply not what people want, it's plagued with problems and its clear its beaucracy that is pushing the plan through, problems and all. |
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Hates the Infotainment
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
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Trump has about as much design sense as a wild boar. I don't believe a majority of the American people would want this "re-design". I don't really know about New Yorkers. Ultimately it's your city and our symbol but... the WTC is gone. It died that day.
This to me smacks of trying to "bring it back". I don't like it at all. You start with a blank slate and you make a new beginning (whether it's the freedom tower or something else). You don't make a larger carbon copy of the old towers. Yah maybe it's a more direct way to give terrorists the finger but WhoTF cares what they think of our new design? I did two weeks after 9/11, but after a few years to let it settle, I couldn't give a shit whether they are upset by it or not. There needs to be something new, something fresh. A new legacy. Not a reminder of the old legacy. Trump and this designer have it completely wrong. ...into the light of a dark black night. |
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careful with axes
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
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I liked the original WTC towers. They weren't pretty, but they were impressive to look upon. They were like a pair of freakin' giant monoliths soaring out of a part of the Manhattan skyline that has relatively few really tall office buildings around it...
Rectangular as they were, they certainly weren't boring to look at. The Freedom Tower was boring and typical of conventional architecture. As if lattices and odd angles made beautiful architecture...gah... I miss the old twin towers. |
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Hates the Infotainment
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
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I didn't say the original towers weren't impressive. I liked their design and simple lines. What I don't want is a lame attempt to resurrect them. They are GONE. This whole notion of rebuilding things to "be like it was" is arrogant and almost childish in a way. The idea is to make a new beginning and a new symbol for ourselves, not to build a reminder, which is all these new towers would be. "Look, just like the old ones".
It's the wrong approach. If the White House or the Supreme Court or Capitol Hill had been destroyed, yes maybe I can see why we'd want it to be the same on the outside. But those are the only three structures I can think of where I'd prefer to see the new structure be a carbon copy rather than a new symbol that stands upon the ground of the old ones. The WTC are gone; to try and bring them back is bordering on disrespect, and the fact that Trump is behind it solidifies my opinion all the more, as that guy's motives are always suspect. And I mean always. ...into the light of a dark black night. |
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Not sayin', just sayin'
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Rebuilding the trade towers is pointless. Oh, excuse me, they're not just rebuilding because this time they go to 111! It's a joke. Laughable. Dumb. It's architectural Spinal Tap. Bigger isn't better if bigger is just more of the old ugly, pointless crap that was there before. What' more, even if it were a beautiful design before, you're just ignoring history -- thousands died there. Life changed for me and a lot of other people, and no amount of erasure will really make that go away, and it won't remember and respect the dead like it really should. Sorry if reality isn't something people want to deal with, but this design is an axe to the forehead, which is not the message I think we want to say about ourselves let alone what we want to say to others. Rebuilding the towers says that 1. we really are simply preoccupied with money and material worth more than human life and it really was an appropriate target, and 2. that we can't do anything better, that that we're so ossified and recalcitrant as a people that our monuments and culture are stagnant and devoid of anything new to express beyond what we already had. Did 9/11 not make a difference to anyone? Shouldn't that be expressed? Oh, I forgot, it goes to 111! It's an ignorant and disrespectful conceit. That's my opinion, and I don't care if I'm the only person to believes that because I know I'm right. |
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Hates the Infotainment
Join Date: May 2004
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While I think it's very important to get some popular consensus on whatever new design goes up (you don't want to make these decisions in a vacuum), the whole notion that some concept must be valid because a popular majority of Americans said it was OK, is often more than a little misguided. Another point is that the original WTC were built and designed in another time with different aesthetic values. People back then were into the "bigger and blocky is better" thing. Look at many of the airplanes and automobiles and houses of the same generation... ...I would like to delude myself into believing the people in this country who really pay attention and value such debates as this, would have a more well-rounded appreciation of different types of architectural aesthetics than their predecessors in the 60s and 70s (and even 80s). It's time to redefine the skyline there with something that is not only commercially viable and functional, but something that has an element of subtle beauty to it also. I agree with Buon and will reiterate I think rebuilding WTC-like towers is arrogant. Such a plan would presume to replace the irreplaceable. Just like all the victims inside, the towers are gone. Let them stay gone as a part of that memory. To remake them is just... ugh. It's so Trump, isn't it? So devoid of [balanced thinking and open-minded ideas]. ...into the light of a dark black night. Last edited by Moogs : 2005-05-19 at 10:37. |
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meh
Join Date: May 2004
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I repeat, what if the Washington Monument was attacked and collapsed? Will we redesign it? I hope not. It may not be a beautiful building, but the Twin Towers was a symbol of this country. The freedom towers is just another normal building that is being built on legendary land. The Twin towers was a symbol ever since the attacks in '92. I don't support when a symbol is attacked and collapsed, it gets a redesign, just build it the same way with enhancements.
giggity |
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Hates the Infotainment
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
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Except that it's not really a symbol in the same sense as the Washington Monument (or White House or Supreme Court as I mentioned). It's more a financial symbol than anything. I don't want to get bogged down in semantics but to me there are precious few structures in this country which have such strong meaning to us (visually) that they should absolutely be "cloned", should something ever befall them.
The WTC are not among them IMO. While they were definitely symbolic of our financial might and a certain period in our history, I don't think they were symbolic in the way the White House or Washington Monument or Mt. Rushmore are. Also, because of the shear number of people that died inside... I just don't feel it's right to try and rebuild it. Let the victims and the towers rest so to speak. Gone but not forgotten. There are better ideas than Trump's, and you can rest assured he has a vested financial or political interest or he wouldn't be running his mouth like he is. The asshole is using a tragedy for his own gain most likely. As soon as he used the toxic "If we do ____, the terrorists win!", [you can pretty well figure] he is not being driven by any sort of altruism here. He's out for #1, as usual. ...into the light of a dark black night. |
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I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: Dec 2004
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2. it's not that we can't do better. bigger, better, stronger. it's what people want, heck, it's the american way. maybe you don't want to think that but it's true. Two similar towers that are better designed and built stronger would do more justice to the site and disaster than anything else I have seen yet. How does the freedom tower do it justice? If anything it just promotes forgetting what happened by completing neglecting any architectural elements from the twin towers. Quote:
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I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Berkeley
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Hates the Infotainment
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
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Well, I suspect most of the polls you've stored away in the memory banks were taken from New Yorkers, but that's perfectly valid. Maybe Trump has no vested interest behind this. Maybe he stands not to gain one penny, but I would be amazed if that were the case. This guy can get plain old attention anytime he wants, so to me it seems suspect he's getting so close to this whole thing.
I want to reiterate something here too: I am not necessarily a proponent of the Freedom Tower per se. I do like some of the ground and below-ground-level memorials planned. I think there was a glass waterfall with names engraved on it. I really liked that. I think there needs to be a significant part of this that is more than just "big buildings", whatever those buildings may come to look like. The empty skeleton thing seems to me to be a name used only by those who openly admit hating the existing plan. Now if you want to bash the principles behind all angular and translucent architectural techniques, OK. But let's be fair about it. Don't just say it sucks because it's not the design you want. Do I think there's better designs for the main tower? Yes, probably. But I like the concept of the rising spires as you look from the top of each new building to the next. And every floor doesn't have to be "people space" necessarily. Look at the Petronas towers. As for Chicago, if they knocked the Sears Tower down, I can see how I would "want it back" as many in NY seem to want the WTC back... but I don't think I'd want it to be a replica. I really don't. Similar maybe, but not the same. You show respect for the old structure by not trying to duplicate it. At least by trying to improve on the visual design of it, you're adding something new to the mix something that will give the place its own character and history and not just "these look exactly like the originals". Because they'll never be the originals. You can't go back.... ...into the light of a dark black night. |
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Valiant Vicks Vizier
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Hates the Infotainment
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
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Let's leave the President out of it. This is about New York first and foremost. Does anyone have the linkage to the competing proposals from before the Freedom Tower was selected?
...into the light of a dark black night. |
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