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Haswell Minis, when...


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Haswell Minis, when...
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2013-09-29, 10:16

Not that Haswell changes everything, but a top spec Mini with Iris graphics and a PCIe based SSD, could be just about the perfect little desktop. So good in fact that Apple might just look for a not so creative way to gimp it. Like soldered in everything, and explosive radio active dye packets for anyone who tries to open one up. I'm going to hope that they leave the good stuff alone and just make those two little changes. But when might we expect it? Any hope of a year end update?

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Last edited by Matsu : 2013-09-29 at 10:49.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2013-09-29, 10:23

I thought it would've happened last week, in tandem with the iMac refresh. I can't figure their approach out. You'd think the mini would be one of the easier Macs for them to update...no screens to worry about, not big and bulky, I assume things drop in with little, if any, redesign/modifications (nobody's asking for, or expecting, some crazy, next-generation ground-up redesign), etc.

Who knows.

Are we sure it didn't get updated, ultra-silently, last week?!
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Matsu
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2013-09-29, 11:25

I'm inclined to wait just a bit, because I don't update my computers too often. Plus I want to see how much of an improvement a data-doubler would make to my current machine, vs constantly importing stuff from externals. It won't cure the problem - 36MP files - but it might buy enough of a reprieve to see the full Haswell line-up before deciding.

It's not a great market right now, but it's surprisingly not bad either. Local Craigslist shows a bunch of folks trying to dump iMacs, people really get upgrade fever! There's a selection of really rather new ones: 2011 and 2012 models. But often, they're asking price just puts them too close to the Apple Refurb Store - which I trust a whole lot more than some guy lugging an iMac to the local coffee shop...

I also have to compare refurbs to education and see if there's anything slightly better than Apple's published pricing within the campus store - there's usually one model in each line that gets a better than average discount compared to online, but it's slightly haphazard whether that's something that fits one's needs. Last time, you could get about $300 off a fully optioned iMac - if you were spending that much, but only $50 off a Mac mini. They still do their best to up-sell you, I guess.

pscates, you got me giving the 21.5" a second look, you and that eminently reasonable approach of yours! I'm sitting at my desk and it's not huge, but there's nothing encumbering it. It's exactly 24"x48". I'm adding some cable management and keyboard tray at some point. Right now there's an old office 1280x1024 Dell 19" LCD and my MBP, running dual screen. Neither is a great display, but my eyes are pretty good, and I've adjusted them about as close to perfect as they can get. D50 on the Dell is too warm, and the viewing angles aren't great, D65 is about right, but again, shitty viewing angles. Still, it would be fine for non photo desktop clutter on the Dell and CS6 on the iMac screen... Plus, I'm not terribly shy about cracking open the base model and adding my own SSD/HDD and RAM to take advantage of the PCIe busses. A little less clutter, and some conveniences like a keyboard and magic trackpad would be perfect. I love editing on a trackpad, it's weird, and might be a recipe for carpal tunnel syndrome, but I just got so good it coming from a laptop. Even my Intous4 seems less intuitive for editing. The newer models with touch and pen might be better, but I'm finding that I'm pretty happy finger painting on a trackpad for a lot of the toning that I do to images, making selections sort of depends on what type they are. The Wacom really needs you to sit down and customize the settings, the trackpad doesn't.

But, not to ruminate too long on the used/refurb/edu/iMac/mini choice.

Back to the mini. Haswell might make it perfect for photo editors. i7, Iris, PCIe SSD, thunderbolt, USB3. Would cover a lo of bases in a small affordable machine.

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psmith2.0
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2013-09-29, 12:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
pscates, you got me giving the 21.5" a second look, you and that eminently reasonable approach of yours!
It's simple, really...I buy what I need, not what I want.
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PB PM
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2013-09-29, 17:21

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
It's not a great market right now, but it's surprisingly not bad either. Local Craigslist shows a bunch of folks trying to dump iMacs, people really get upgrade fever! There's a selection of really rather new ones: 2011 and 2012 models. But often, they're asking price just puts them too close to the Apple Refurb Store - which I trust a whole lot more than some guy lugging an iMac to the local coffee shop...
When I was in my early 20's I did that, bought a new computer every two years. I had to have something recent, or it felt like I was missing out. Now in my late 20's I simply don't care about whether what I have is new or not.

I've pointed everyone I know who is looking for a new Mac to the refurbished section of the Apple store. Each of the people who took my advice is more than happy with the result. When my current 2011 27" model gets too slow to handle the image/video files I work with I'll move on, so maybe 2-3 years from now. This thing is a beast, even after almost 3 years, and I'll most likely buy a refurb to replace it when the time comes. Why spend the extra money for a new one, when the refurbs are great? Just sit back and wait a few months for a newer models to filter in and save yourself $100-300.
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psmith2.0
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2013-09-29, 17:35

Hey, I could've written that post!

Refurb is where it's at, especially when the timing and all works out and you're able to get a current-generation model for $250-450 off.

If history is anything to go by - and it is - refurb models of last week's refresh could start showing up as soon as early December, right in time for the holidays. Even if they don't appear quite that early, they'll definitely be popping up shortly after the new year. Stuff usually starts to trickle in 60-75 days after its initial release. Could be as high as 90 days, but I've never seen it take longer than that. So it could be a nice Christmas for some people, if they're cool with waiting a couple of months.

Traditionally, current-generation refurbs start at about a $170 savings on the low-end iMac, going for $1,129. But I've seen that fluctuate as well. Sometimes it's more. Those tend to go quick, so you gotta keep your eyes open and be ready to pounce. Also, 2012 entry-level iMacs should be dropping down to $929-1,099 soon, if they haven't already. My sister and her husband got one of the 2011 iMacs for $929 a while back. $270 off the then-$1,199 original price. Considering the complete POS HP it replaced, any price they paid - including the original $1,199 - would've been worth it! But they took my advice, cooled their heels, kept an eye on the refurb section...and saved themselves nearly $300.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2013-09-29 at 17:51.
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chucker
 
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2013-09-29, 17:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Are we sure it didn't get updated, ultra-silently, last week?!
It did, in form of a price change.

This may mean they're not looking to update it for a while.
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psmith2.0
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Join Date: May 2004
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2013-09-29, 17:54

Damn, those were some serious increases. That's gotta irk some folks, especially since nothing else changed. They're not getting updated Mac minis for those new prices. $50, $100 and $150 increases across the board in Australia, for the same 2012 models/specs/features.

Ouch.

Are they just trying not to sell in any Australia?

"There's just not widespread demand for these models, it seems."

No shit. Making them even pricier probably isn't going to help.
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Matsu
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2013-09-29, 18:11

Where does it say there's not much widespread demand? I wonder if these are just currency/shipping cost related adjustments.

Not sure what it means. Sometimes the mini goes forever without an update, other times it offers a competitive package for a reasonable fee.
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psmith2.0
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2013-09-29, 19:12

No, that was me mimicking/mocking an Apple exec.
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Matsu
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2013-09-30, 07:49

I wasn't quite sure, I'm getting slow...
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Matsu
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2013-10-02, 10:30

Hey Rob, I've been meaning to ask, how does that your iMac handle the D800 files when you feed it big batches? I'm not in a hurry to spend a pile of dough, so I'd like to get a sense of what to expect from circa 2011-2012 i5 or i7 iMacs.

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PB PM
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2013-10-02, 17:04

I have the 2.7Ghz Quad, Core i5 model. In terms of importing that's more limited by the speed of the card, the USB2 ports on the iMac (thus the CF card reader) and the HDD. Importing 200+ pictures takes time, never timed it, and you could get better performance with a thunderbolt device or an SSD, but I'm never in enough of a rush to bother upgrading.

I don't batch edit files on mass, other than using presets on import, since I usually work on one file at a time, so I have no idea how long that would take.
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Matsu
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2013-10-05, 11:57

How much RAM you running in that machine?

Back to the Mini, suddenly there appears to be a big selection of current generation Minis in the refurb store, and prices are decent. I'm tempted, sorta been vacilating between this or an iMac for a while. I'm more tempted to wait for Haswell in the case of the Mini, since the Iris graphics appear to be a decent step up from Intel's Ivy Bridge integrated set...

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PB PM
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2013-10-05, 12:41

Currently 12GB. I was going to upgrade, not the I absolutely need to, but it would be nice to have at least 16GB, and then I checked the prices. Recently RAM prices have gone up, due to a fire in a major manufactures factory, so upgrading isn't as cheap anymore. Prices have gone up 25% in the last month. Now is not the time to be looking to buy third party RAM.
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Frank777
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2013-12-18, 18:37

And suddenly the Haswell Mini is the only machine that's MIA in this year of the 'chock full' product pipeline.

Could it be that the machine's being redesigned?

Since they've done it in the budget iMac and the entire mobile line, could Apple be hardwiring the RAM into the next Mini?
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Eugene
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2013-12-18, 19:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
And suddenly the Haswell Mini is the only machine that's MIA in this year of the 'chock full' product pipeline.

Could it be that the machine's being redesigned?
I think it's mostly a case of the Mac mini being a desktop, so it doesn't need Haswell's improved power management / battery life improvements. Haswell would bring greatly improved graphics with Iris Pro I suppose.
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wtd
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2013-12-20, 13:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
And suddenly the Haswell Mini is the only machine that's MIA in this year of the 'chock full' product pipeline.

Could it be that the machine's being redesigned?

Since they've done it in the budget iMac and the entire mobile line, could Apple be hardwiring the RAM into the next Mini?
It may be important to note that while it's not practical to access the RAM in the 21.5" iMac since they went to the thinner design, it's still two SO-DIMMs in sockets. They're just tucked on the rear side of the motherboard, which itself sits behind a display held in with adhesive strips.
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wtd
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Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2013-12-20, 13:27

Three main things could give Apple an opportunity to substantially change the Mini's design:

Haswell boards are smaller due to more components being on the CPU itself.

They could go with the PCI-E SSDs they've been putting into their laptops and eliminate the internal hard drive.

They could solder the RAM directly onto the board.

I'd wager the Firewire port is on the chopping block.
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Frank777
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2013-12-20, 13:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtd View Post
It may be important to note that while it's not practical to access the RAM in the 21.5" iMac since they went to the thinner design, it's still two SO-DIMMs in sockets. They're just tucked on the rear side of the motherboard, which itself sits behind a display held in with adhesive strips.
Thanks for the correction. I didn't know that.

As I mentioned this morning on another forum, the new Pro means that the Mini is now the only desktop that is easily rackable with OS X server.

Could this be another reason for a redesign?

Apple does need to have at least one real server model, and the new Pro's shape and cost makes that difficult.
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Frank777
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2013-12-20, 13:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtd View Post
I'd wager the Firewire port is on the chopping block.
Absolutely.
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709
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2013-12-20, 13:43

Speaking of that (and slightly off topic), has anyone used the TB>FW adapter? Curious if you can just connect one drive or if it allows for daisy chaining of a handful of drives. Powered drives, of course, not bus-powered. Apple's page seems to imply single device.

So it goes.
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wtd
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2013-12-29, 02:19

I've been looking at Mac Pro reviews, and seeing lots of pictures of the guts of that machines, and I can't help but wonder what it'd look like if you took that same basic design and scaled it down for a mobile Haswell i5/i7, fewer ports, and a smaller power supply. Give it a satin-finish aluminum or even white plastic exterior if you want to differentiate it.

Heck, there'd probably even be room in a design like that for optional dedicated graphics.
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