User Name
Password
AppleNova Forums » Speculation and Rumors »

16 and 14 Inch MacBoob Pro


Register Members List Calendar Search FAQ Posting Guidelines
16 and 14 Inch MacBoob Pro
Page 3 of 3 Previous 1 2 [3]  Thread Tools
Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2021-01-22, 20:09

Given the huge performance improvements of the M1, I'm not even sure Apple needs that midrange.
  • $999 MacBook Air. BTO hard drive, maybe RAM upgrades
  • $1700-2000ish 13/14" MacBook Pro. Big-ass CPU/GPU, lots of RAM
  • $1900+ 15/16" MacBook Pro. Same as above—all-in on performance

Other than BTO upgrades on the MacBook, what even fits into that midrange with Apple Silicon?

Ditch the weird low-end 13" MacBook Pro. It's never made sense in the lineup and has led to a lot of deeply confusing differences between two machines both known as the 13" MacBook Pro (eg the 2 port vs 4 port 13", different keyboards, some other things I can't remember). If they truly think that model is needed, just make it the MacBook.

But frankly, why not just make things dead simple:

Looking for a Mac laptop for normal personal use? MacBook Air. Need the horsepower for Photoshop, video/sound editing, modeling, whatever, because that's how you make money? Pick a 13 or 15 (or 14 or 16) Pro and upgrade the hard drive if you want.

This can be a flow chart with all of 3 boxes on it.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-01-22, 20:46

I'd be okay with that.

That's why I said what I did above...until these new redesigned models get unveiled, it's so hard to know what approach they'll take. At that point, there may be no real need for a $1,299-1,499 notebook in the case we're accustomed to. The Air, 10-12 months from now, could be even more capable than it already is, and nicely cover that ground for just about any user who truly didn't require true "pro"-level performance/capability.

If there's just two models of MacBook in the entire lineup, then yeah...I think one should just be "MacBook" and the other "MacBook Pro". At that point, "Air" really won't mean much...do you want a MacBook or a MacBook Pro? Here's the difference...

Whatever Apple is cooking up to put in those models must be a step up than what they've just released, otherwise they would've migrated the entire MacBook Pro lineup (the two higher-end 13" and the 16" as well). That they didn't makes me think they've got something pretty impressive planned for later this year, truly setting that line apart from the Air or anything in that sub-$1,500 space. And that's great!
  quote
drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-01-22, 21:07

The latest reports say that the new MacBoobs will once more ship with SD card slots.

Please please please...


...
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-01-22, 21:14

Is that the single standard for those things? If it comes with those, will that accommodate everyone's digital cameras?

Is that a faster way to transfer/offload camera pics to a computer?

Forgive a dumb question...I don't own a digital camera or have ever used a SD card.
  quote
Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2021-01-22, 21:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Is that the single standard for those things? If it comes with those, will that accommodate everyone's digital cameras?

Is that a faster way to transfer/offload camera pics to a computer?

Forgive a dumb question...I don't own a digital camera or have ever used a SD card.
Not quite. Consumer/prosumer cameras support SD, but pro cameras have mostly moved to CFExpress. SD cards top out at ~300mbps, CFExpress can get up to 4gbps. CFExpress uses PCIe 3.0, same as SSDs.

That said, some CFExpress cards can fit in an SD slot so Apple could choose to support both (type A) but AFAIK only Sony uses this format. Nikon and Canon use type B, which is larger.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-01-22, 22:00

I see.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-01-22, 22:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Yeah, but where does that leave the $1,299-1,499 13" Pros [?].
They don't need to exist.

Right now, they're just MB Airs with better battery life.
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2021-01-23, 12:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
Not quite. Consumer/prosumer cameras support SD, but pro cameras have mostly moved to CFExpress. SD cards top out at ~300mbps, CFExpress can get up to 4gbps. CFExpress uses PCIe 3.0, same as SSDs.

That said, some CFExpress cards can fit in an SD slot so Apple could choose to support both (type A) but AFAIK only Sony uses this format. Nikon and Canon use type B, which is larger.
Type B uses the same slot as XQD, which has been around since 2012. I doubt we will see pro grade card slots built into consumer oriented computers any time soon anyway. SD is good enough, since it’s more common. Many pro cameras have SD and XQD/CFexpress type B slots anyway. I’m more than happy to use an external for my XQD and CFexpess (type B) cards, since you need to upgrade your reader every few years to take advantage of the speed of newer cards.
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-01-23, 20:55

I don't care about transporting camera footage, but at least a modern SD card slot will allow for some system expansion after purchase.
  quote
Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2021-01-24, 03:24

I'll be honest, the SD card has replaced the USB thumbdrive around our house. Could be just because we have a ton of SD cards from my wife's photography habit, but we all have USB / SD dongles or readers of some sort.

But the pricing is now low enough that you could see this being a reasonable 'second disk' for a lot of people. Crazy.

https://www.amazon.com/sd-card/

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
#IRC isn't old school.
Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.
  quote
BlueRabbit
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
2021-01-24, 13:52

Here are some fun facts about modern 1 TB SD cards from Chris Espinosa, Apple employee #8:

Quote:
One of these contains as much storage as a stack of 1.44Mb floppy disks 2.29 kilometers high. It’s three times as much storage as we shipped in all Apple IIs ever built, combined.
It's crazy how far we've come from just 24 years ago, when everyone was yelling at Apple about removing the floppy disk.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-01-24, 15:45

...and with that knowledge on hand, just think - despite how cool, fast and convenient things are now - what will be commonplace and "eh, no big deal..." in just 15-20 years from now.

We'll look back on 2020-2021 as "the old days" and chuckle about todays SSD speeds, stock RAM amounts ("How did we even get anything done?!"), what ports/connections we couldn't live without, display resolutions, pricing, etc.

20 years ago, I thought 100MB Zip drives/disks were the end-all/be-all of storage and transportation.

"Guys, I believe this is plenty...this is the future!"

I can go to Office Depot right now and get a little orange or green Lexar 32GB thumb drive for about $5-6.

And in another 20 years, that's going to look as dated and old-timey as a Zip disk does today.

"Hey, I see they've got those 8TB MicroDotz™ on sale for $7.99 this week...".
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-01-24, 23:57

16 years ago I could see a scenario where 32GB of RAM would be useful. But, 15 years from now I cannot see a scenario where 32TB will be.

There is going to come a point where RAM is no longer even a consideration. Storage speeds will be fast enough that storage and RAM will become synonymous. I think we are within 5-10 years of that being the case. I mean, the amount of information required to fill 32TB is mind boggling, and I just cannot get my head wrapped around any conceivable average-ordinary-every-day customer-use case that will require anything even close. I deal with customer use cases on a daily basis, and rarely is 8GB of RAM not enough for absolutely everything the average user does all day long, every day, and has been the case for several years now. 16GB of RAM gives the average user enough RAM for the next 10 years minimum!

When I first started doing this 16 years ago, 1GB of RAM was a dream come true. Now, 8GB of RAM is plenty*. That is a factor of 8 over 16 years. If that ratio holds true, then the next 16 years will carry us to 64GB of RAM as the "gold standard" for average users.

Seriously, we are quickly reaching a point where enough RAM is enough RAM.

Oh, and there wouldn't even be a need for all this storage if the average user didn't keep every single picture they ever took with their phone! But, holy cow I see libraries approaching 50,000 plus photos and they're mostly duplicate, blurry photos of the exact same thing but where the photographer wriggled over three inches for a "better shot", etc., etc., etc.

Sheesh!

The next big innovations are going to be in access speeds, AR, on-device ML, and battery life. Average-use RAM and storage sizes are going to begin to level off. Creative pro's will most certainly need more, but the average-use cases are plateauing.

And I predict there will be an episode of Hoarders focused specifically on photo libraries. "I need all 836 pictures of Aunt Persnippity, because what happens if I lose one of them?"



* I am not talking about professional creatives here, so don't get all hot and snobby about it.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2021-01-25, 00:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Oh, and there wouldn't even be a need for all this storage if the average user didn't keep every single picture they ever took with their phone! But, holy cow I see libraries approaching 50,000 plus photos and they're mostly duplicate, blurry photos of the exact same thing but where the photographer wriggled over three inches for a "better shot", etc., etc., etc.
We just went through and did a massive de-duplication run on my wife's photo collection, cleaned it up, etc, etc, etc.

162k photos, 1.2TB

So. Um.
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-01-25, 00:54

I was promised holographic communications.

And my Mac is going to be my doctor soon, so my daily body scans and bloodwork analysis files are probably going to take up a bunch of space.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
Send a message via ICQ to chucker Send a message via AIM to chucker Send a message via MSN to chucker Send a message via Yahoo to chucker Send a message via Skype™ to chucker 
2021-01-25, 04:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
16 years ago I could see a scenario where 32GB of RAM would be useful. But, 15 years from now I cannot see a scenario where 32TB will be.
New milestones enable new applications.

For example, I personally wouldn't have envisioned, when the first iPhone launched: "one day, its SoC will be so fast, the camera will be significantly enhanced through on-device processing: to figure out, at 60fps, which pixels are likely faces and therefore should probably be in focus; to figure out the right white balance; to do a form of HDR; etc.". It wasn't remotely feasible with the weird Samsung chip it had. With the A14, it's solidly there, and they added the "oh, we can write a DNG-based RAW format that also includes metadata of what our signal processing would've done" cherry on top, which they only can because the RAM is (barely) enough on the Pro models.

All this processing power hasn't made word processing a thousand times better, but it has made it a fair bit better: collaborative editing has become mass-market in the past few years, and works mostly OK now. Very hard to do in the 90s. It used to be that you had to very deliberately think about which settings to apply to the Photoshop filter, because you'd have to wait minutes. Now, it can just do it live.

What if one of the things for VR to actually work (sorry, Oculus, this ain't quite it yet) is another leap in performance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
There is going to come a point where RAM is no longer even a consideration. Storage speeds will be fast enough that storage and RAM will become synonymous.
There's still about an order of magnitude difference between RAM and SSD throughput, and I see no reason that discrepancy would eventually go away.

"Enough" is the big question there; will SSDs become fast enough that you don't need RAM at all. (Intel seems to have mostly given up on their not-quite-RAM-not-quite-SSD 3D XPoint / Optane experiment. That could mean that it was ahead of its time, though.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
16GB of RAM gives the average user enough RAM for the next 10 years minimum!
I think that's optimistic. I wouldn't be surprised if macOS Compton in 10 years doesn't even boot off less than 32 GiB RAM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
When I first started doing this 16 years ago, 1GB of RAM was a dream come true. Now, 8GB of RAM is plenty*. That is a factor of 8 over 16 years. If that ratio holds true, then the next 16 years will carry us to 64GB of RAM as the "gold standard" for average users.
I started at 64 KiB. That never seemed like a lot, but in comparison, the several MiB on the Mac LC did. Now, I have 16 GiB, and it's definitely not enough for my use cases. (Granted, I'm high-end.)

The iPhone started at 128 MiB. It is now at 4-6 GiB. I bet there's already features that won't be able to ship until it goes to 8 GiB and beyond.

The iPad can only afford to have so much less RAM than a Mac because its UI is constrained in multitasking capabilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Oh, and there wouldn't even be a need for all this storage if the average user didn't keep every single picture they ever took with their phone! But, holy cow I see libraries approaching 50,000 plus photos and they're mostly duplicate, blurry photos of the exact same thing but where the photographer wriggled over three inches for a "better shot", etc., etc., etc.
50k isn't that much, really!

But also, that's the wrong approach. The right approach is for the Photos app to figure this out (in a similar vein to how Aperture did, a decade ago), merge those photos into 'stacks', suggest a pick, and then eventually ask "hey, should I even bother with the bad ones?".

But even then, some people are hoarders. Don't make them feel bad about it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
The next big innovations are going to be in access speeds, AR, on-device ML, and battery life. Average-use RAM and storage sizes are going to begin to level off. Creative pro's will most certainly need more, but the average-use cases are plateauing.
I agree with the first sentence, but don't see why you're so confident about plateauing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
And I predict there will be an episode of Hoarders focused specifically on photo libraries. "I need all 836 pictures of Aunt Persnippity, because what happens if I lose one of them?"

Why not? It's nice to have as many moments as possible from a person. Those moments — and eventually, the people — pass.
  quote
drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-01-25, 10:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Those moments — and eventually, the people — pass.
Our ephemeral ringside seats alongside the evolution of computer technology will be lost in time, like tears in rain... but damn it's amazing where we might be headed.

...
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-01-25, 12:35

I can fully understand tons of pics of loved ones, pets, places, moments, etc. It was a bit more of a process, 15-20+ years ago to take, and organize, pics vs. now. I certainly regret not having as many photos of some people (and pets) from 20+ years ago that are no longer in my life.

It's those with hundreds, if not thousands, of photos of themselves on their phones that blow my mind.

How narcissistic and self-absorbed do some people want to be?!

Cringe...

And when Apple, via their yearly hardware/software advances and improvements, plays in that sandbox to facilitate new levels of vanity and attention-whoredom, I die a little inside.

"Tim, these chicks don't need any further assistance and tools in the Look-At-Me-Me-Me-and-Validate-My-Existence-and-Worth™ sweepstakes. Knock it off and redirect Apple's resources toward more noble pursuits...adopting LGBTQ polar bears or something, I don't know. Something a bit more on the 'worthwhile' side of things?"

Yeah, maybe people were always like this (I don't believe that at all), but simply lacked the means to broadcast their vanity and narcissism to all corners of the world, within seconds. But, thanks to the smartphone/mobile broadband/social media era, that problem has finally been solved!

Yay.



That Warhol guy had it partly right..."in the future, everyone will be an attention/compliment-chasing wannabe pinup model for 15 years."

Close enough.
  quote
Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2021-01-25, 19:56

I just got a new 16" MBP at work. 8 cores, 64GB RAM, fully tricked out.

Drool.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-01-25, 20:07

I didn't even know 64GB RAM was an option!

Wow, that's a serious machine.

For giggles, I just spec'd out a fully-loaded 16" MacBook Pro (i9, 64GB RAM, 8TB SSD, 8GB graphics) for the tidy sum of $6,699. It adds up pretty quick, going Cadillac! I think that might've been the first time I've ever done so with that particular model (because I knew it was something I'd never own; I usually do this kind of thing with the iMac, Air and 13" MacBook Pro).

I didn't know those graphics and storage options were available either. I'm really clueless on that 16" model.
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2021-01-25, 23:37

nm misread
  quote
Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2021-01-26, 01:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I didn't even know 64GB RAM was an option!

Wow, that's a serious machine.

For giggles, I just spec'd out a fully-loaded 16" MacBook Pro (i9, 64GB RAM, 8TB SSD, 8GB graphics) for the tidy sum of $6,699. It adds up pretty quick, going Cadillac! I think that might've been the first time I've ever done so with that particular model (because I knew it was something I'd never own; I usually do this kind of thing with the iMac, Air and 13" MacBook Pro).

I didn't know those graphics and storage options were available either. I'm really clueless on that 16" model.
This one comes out to $3,899. I would never buy this for myself but I’m glad for the IT department to send me one. This model is standard issue here for software engineers.

Last edited by Ryan : 2021-01-26 at 11:15.
  quote
Posting Rules Navigation
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Page 3 of 3 Previous 1 2 [3] 

Post Reply

Forum Jump
Thread Tools
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
16-inch MacBook Pro chucker Apple Products 24 2019-11-20 18:13
20 inch G5 Imac vs. 17 inch core duo? bigbuckeye Purchasing Advice 1 2006-02-09 00:48
15-inch PowerBook chucker Purchasing Advice 16 2005-10-20 14:23
Design 12 inch iB/PB davidgilmour Apple Products 7 2005-09-05 22:35
500 mhz 17 inch Ti PB ? How much? Darwin Purchasing Advice 10 2005-08-31 07:38


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:39.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2021, AppleNova