[Miko]

It's funny, but somehow when Apple designs something they reduce it down to the most basic functional form possible. This is great we all are drawn to Apple for one way or another because of their hardware design. This also makes it difficult for other manufactures to design anything similar enter Dell Inspiron Zino without being compared to Apple and in many times always landing in Apple's shadow.

[turtle]

Interesting. Not sure I like the blue. The Black one would work very nicely though. I'm interested in the specs. Might save me from building my own HTPC.

[tomoe]

Originally Posted by turtle2472 Interesting. Not sure I like the blue. The Black one would work very nicely though. I'm interested in the specs. Might save me from building my own HTPC.

I haven't been able to find the Zino on the US Dell site, only on the Ireland and UK sites. I've been considering a Mac Mini as an HTPC for some time, but have held off for lack of HDMI output. If the Zino is competitively priced & spec'd, I may spring for it.

[Miko]

The optional Blu-ray drive definitely put's it above the Mini as a HTPC.

[psmith2.0]

They've all got 7200rpm hard drives.

[Miko]

One thing I noticed is that the tops have a slight curve to them so I doubt these things would be stackable for a small server farms and the like, but still makes for a nice little stand alone unit.

[drewprops]

I'd consider getting one to use as an HTPC if they come with Windows 7 onboard... but one question: is the idea to pull video INTO the unit from an external source via the HDMI jacks or would you still need some sort of tuner doohickey? Wait, one other question: what are the most popular apps for making the thing perform like a DVR?



...

[CitizenTony]

I've used Windows Media Center as a DVR in the past and it was very nice. I still use it for playback of certain things on my existing HTPC and now it supports Netflix and others.

I thought Dell already had the mini competitor in the Studio Hybrid line? I'm looking into a mini or the Hybrid to replace my old home built beast for my media center early next year. Currently the mini lacks way too much to really consider it, but I like it anyway. Apple is always such a damn compromise for me.

[Chinney]

Originally Posted by CitizenTony [...] Currently the mini lacks way too much to really consider it, but I like it anyway. Apple is always such a damn compromise for me.

In your view, what should it have, taking into account the price point and the form-factor? (Not a criticism of your post, just curious. I thought that people were fairly satisfied with the recent update.)

[tomoe]

Chinney, I know you didn't ask me, but...I would just like the Mini to have an HMDI output. Other than that, I really love the new Mini (in particular the server version), and a Mini + Plex I surmise would make for a pretty sweet HTPC.

[Capella]

I believe people who want an HTPC also want Blu-Ray as well as HDMI. Other then that the mini is great!

[Chinney]

Fair enough. Tomoe and Capella. I'm not really in the HTPC mode, so I don't pay attention to these things, but I know that others really want the Mini to fill that slot.

[Miko]

Here's the thing on the Mini as a HTPC. It's the perfect form factor, but Apple is not going build in the all the media A/V connections. While Apple has gone down that road before with the whole A/V concept they have Apple TV now and I don't see them building in such a request as HDMI, a TV tuner and definitely not a slot loading Blu-ray drive into the Mini.

I have a Mini hooked up now to my living room T.V. and I use it for music and movies, but you are going to have to piece it together using 3rd party options like Elgato's eye T.V. in order to get it close to a real HTPC.

All-in-all I think the Mini is a great solid little work horse and makes for a nice home media hub.

[CitizenTony]

As said, HDMI and Blu-ray. I don't need a tuner as my DVR works just fine. And it's true and probably obvious that at this point, Apple has no intention to ever support Blu-ray or HDMI in their PCs. I hope I'm wrong, but they're so late to the game that it's a joke.

[Bonn89]

Is that a tray-loading drive on the Zino?

Yum.

/sarcasm

Seriously. It's almost 2010, for christsake.

[Mugge]

I thought Inspiron was a notebook series?

[Dorian Gray]

This chubby little thing isn't a direct competitor to the Mac mini. It's probably a decent media player when hooked up to a TV, but as a general computer it falls short. For a start, it sucks far more power than the mini: probably about 3x more at idle. Yet its processor is far slower: half as fast at best, and more like one-third as fast for many tasks. These major problems are enough to kill any interest I might have had in it were I looking for a compact desktop.

The drives are all 7200 rpm because Dell is using 3.5-inch hard drives in these.

As usual for Dell computers, this one lacks all the little luxuries that come as standard with Macs, such as Bluetooth, optical audio, and FireWire. It also lacks near-essential things like 802.11n. Granted, it has eSATA, which is a nice plus. But the slow processor makes it useless for the data-intensive work for which eSATA is normally a benefit.

So basically, you've got a computer with an idiosyncratic selection of ports and components, no aesthetic design to speak of, a dud processor, and Windows, for about the same price as the far more powerful Mac mini with OS X. Dell will continue its slow decline into irrelevance with machines like this. If they want to sell computers at premium prices then they must earn the right to those prices. As it is they're basically pumping out Acer machines at twice the price, with slightly better after-sales support in exchange. No wonder their market share is collapsing.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Mugge I thought Inspiron was a notebook series?

I once thought iTunes was a music organization app.

Originally Posted by Dorian Gray So basically, you've got a computer with an idiosyncratic selection of ports and components, no aesthetic design to speak of, a dud processor, and Windows, for about the same price as the far more powerful Mac mini with OS X.

Except for that last point, what you're describing is, sadly, 90% of the market.

I'm just sayin'…

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Dorian Gray This chubby little thing isn't a direct competitor to the Mac mini. It's probably a decent media player when hooked up to a TV, but as a general computer it falls short. For a start, it sucks far more power than the mini: probably about 3x more at idle. Yet its processor is far slower: half as fast at best, and more like one-third as fast for many tasks. These major problems are enough to kill any interest I might have had in it were I looking for a compact desktop. The drives are all 7200 rpm because Dell is using 3.5-inch hard drives in these. As usual for Dell computers, this one lacks all the little luxuries that come as standard with Macs, such as Bluetooth, optical audio, and FireWire. It also lacks near-essential things like 802.11n. Granted, it has eSATA, which is a nice plus. But the slow processor makes it useless for the data-intensive work for which eSATA is normally a benefit. So basically, you've got a computer with an idiosyncratic selection of ports and components, no aesthetic design to speak of, a dud processor, and Windows, for about the same price as the far more powerful Mac mini with OS X. Dell will continue its slow decline into irrelevance with machines like this. If they want to sell computers at premium prices then they must earn the right to those prices. As it is they're basically pumping out Acer machines at twice the price, with slightly better after-sales support in exchange. No wonder their market share is collapsing.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Mugge: Inspiron is Dell's lowest-end consumer brand. It goes Inspiron -> Studio -> Studio XPS -> Alienware/Adamo. Confusingly, this basically replaces the Studio Hybrid, at about the same price, which makes the branding and pricing even more puzzling. For $299, this might be more interesting, but as it is...

[CitizenTony]

Originally Posted by Dorian Gray As usual for Dell computers, this one lacks all the little luxuries that come as standard with Macs, such as Bluetooth, optical audio, and FireWire. It also lacks near-essential things like 802.11n. Granted, it has eSATA, which is a nice plus. But the slow processor makes it useless for the data-intensive work for which eSATA is normally a benefit.

Granted, I don't know a thing about the AMD chip it comes with and how it compares to the C2D of the mini, but couldn't your list be turned around against the mini if one doesn't care about what you care about. For example, Bluetooth, optical audio and FireWire mean little to me. Blu-ray, HDMI, SD card slots, and big hard drives with lots of RAM do. The top model comes standard with 6GB of RAM and a 1TB drive! Also nice for an HTPC are the front facing USB ports. Windows 7 is a pretty great OS as well. I go back and forth between the two, and they've never been so even.

I hate to be defending a corporation that gives a shit about me, but it's the mini that's lacking the little luxuries from my point of view.

[Miko]

Exactly, as I mentioned earlier the Mini is not really the most ideal setup for a HTPC. You can definitely make it work, but outside of the small form factor, remote and FrontRow, out the box it's nothing more than Apple's least expensive Mac to get your foot in the door.

And with Apple TV which does have HDMI and HD downloads "not Blu-ray but Apple's pushing it". Apple will not add these to the mini because of sales cannibalization. Hell they even stopped updating FrontRow! Show me one page on Apple's website site where FrontRow is highlighted like it used to be.

The Mini is a good little work horse, but the Zino HD is clearly taking into consideration those who want a small form factor and have HTPC needs, which you don't need a lot of processing horsepower for.

[CitizenTony]

It's out on the Dell US site now. They've even added a wireless n option. I just configured one with the highest processor and wireless n card with every thing else stock, except for a green top. Total price, $389. Not bad for $210 less than the lowest cost mini. It might be a bit slower, but you don't really tax the system very much in a HTPC. For normal users, I'd bet it'd be plenty fast as well.

SYSTEM COLOR Spring Green edit
PROCESSOR AMD Dual Core Athlon™ Neo X2 6850e (1MB L2, 1.8GHz) edit
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English edit
WARRANTY AND SERVICE 1 Yr Ltd Hardware Warranty, InHome Service after Remote Diagnosis - Important Information edit
SECURITY SOFTWARE McAfee SecurityCenter, 30-Day Trial edit
MONITOR No Monitor edit
MEMORY 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz- 2 DIMM edit
HARD DRIVE 250GB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive edit
OPTICAL DRIVE 8X DVD+/-RW Drive edit
VIDEO CARD Integrated ATI Radeon HD3200 Graphics edit
SOUND Integrated 2.1 High Definition Audio edit
KEYBOARD No Keyboard or Mouse Selected edit
MOUSE No Mouse Requested edit
WIRELESS Dell 1520 802.11 b/g/n wireless card edit

[Kickaha]

Hmm. I went with the following:

Genuine Windows® 7 Professional, 64bit, English
AMD Dual Core Athlon™ Neo X2 6850e (1MB L2, 1.8GHz)
1 Yr Ltd Hardware Warranty, InHome Service after Remote Diagnosis - Important Information
McAfee SecurityCenter, 36-Months
No Monitor
4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz- 2 DIMM
500GB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive
8X DVD+/-RW Drive
ATI Radeon HD 4330 512 MB
Integrated 2.1 High Definition Audio
No Keyboard or Mouse Selected
No Mouse Requested
Dell 1520 802.11 b/g/n wireless card
Piano Black

Bumped it up to Win7Pro (really... this is more in line with OS X, I believe), top CPU (and it's still only 1.8GHz vs the stock 2.26GHz in the low end mini), upped the GPU (I *believe* it's more in line with the GeForce9400M, correct me if I'm wrong), bumped it to 4GB (can go to 8GB though - advantage, Zino), and 500GB, and the 802.11n card. Also tossed in the McAfee 3yr plan, because hey... you're going to need it for the lifetime of the product, right?

Price: $754

It still lacks CPU oomph, and the sound output? 2.1? On a box that is also offering Blu-Ray as an option? REALLY?? Jeez. That's just unbelievably worthy of a facepalm.

In comparison, I bought my Mac mini for $599, tossed in $60 worth of RAM to 4GB, and a $110 500GB drive. $769. (Admittedly, that RAM and drive were 3rd party, and me any putty knife went to town... I'm sure you could save a few bucks doing something similar with the Zino, right? Hmm... since each upgrade was only $30 on the Zino, I guess not...)

Oh god, I paid $15 more... what was I thinking?

Oh right. TOSlink audio.

(And a 160GB drive I slapped into a $19 USB enclosure as a portable back up for work.)

So let's see - for an extra $35 bucks I got what is, in my opinion, a better setup, and a pocket 160GB drive to boot. Nice.

I'm sure the Zino will sell well, but I'm not sure it's even a decent HTPC, to be honest. Looks like a great little cheap Winbox though for those who need the absolute bare minimum.

[CitizenTony]

I stuck with the on-board video since the mini uses on-board. How do the cards compare? If someone knows off the top of their heads.

Why the emphasis on optical audio when it has HDMI? I know I ditched all optical for all HDMI when I got a new receiver last year. It's great having so few cords to mess with when I add something to the set up. 2.1 sound is negated by the direct HDMI link as well. That's just through the headphone jack as I understand things.

With Win7, I think Home Premium is plenty enough for HTPC use. It's what I'm currently using at least, and it works perfectly. I love Windows Media Center on 7. I kept to the standard drive and RAM because I'd just swap them with what I already have and it better matches the mini base.

McAfee, funny, but really. If you're worried, use MS's free solution.

I was trying to keep it as comparable to the mini as possible, which is why I left off Blu-ray.

[Kickaha]

I'm not seeing anything that says audio over HDMI is anything better than 2.1... in fact, this seems to be a common wtf comment floating around.

If true, that's just mindbogglingly stupid, and damned near a non-starter design flaw for this as an HTPC.

Confirmed! 7.1AC3 over HDMI, *IFF* you get the higher end GPU.

I honestly have no idea how the GPUs honestly compare - the 9400M is a *very* capable chip, and with the uses its put to by 10.6, it effectively boosts the computing power of the unit considerably.

I boosted the drive and RAM to bring it in line with what I bumped up on the mini, but check the pricing... if I were to drop it back down, the Zino would drop in price by $60, and the mini by $170. That remaining $75 that the mini is now *cheaper* by would wipe out the McAfee subscription, and you'd still have $45 left over. (But a 160GB vs. 320GB drive... how much external drive can you get for $45? )

In any case, unless you pare the Zino down to a bare minimum, the mini is price-competitive... which shouldn't really surprise anyone.

[ezkcdude]

I priced one of these a while back and was surprised it turned out to be so expensive.

[CitizenTony]

If it's 2.1 even over HDMI, it's worthless. If so, maybe it's to get buyers to spend on the Studio Hybrid for HTPC use. Apple style. Dell puts HDMI on everything so it's being there is just par for the course.

This really isn't the mini market either. It's the cheap market. As always these days, when you start making something match Apple component to component, the price usually evens out. It's just that for some uses, some people don't need the latest chipsets and raw processing power and the cheaper options start to make sense. This is one of those cases for myself.

Whatever I get is going to be stuck in my media cabinet behind opaque doors and the logo doesn't matter to me. All that matters is that it plugs into my existing set-up easily, can output 1080p, and can navigate to motogp.com reliably.

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by CitizenTony If it's 2.1 even over HDMI, it's worthless. If so, maybe it's to get buyers to spend on the Studio Hybrid for HTPC use. Apple style. Dell puts HDMI on everything so it's being there is just par for the course.

Corrected my post - here's an updated config, more in line with what you were looking at:

Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English
AMD Dual Core Athlon™ Neo X2 6850e (1MB L2, 1.8GHz)
1 Yr Ltd Hardware Warranty, InHome Service after Remote Diagnosis - Important Information
McAfee SecurityCenter, 15-Months
No Monitor
3GB DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz- 2 DIMM
320GB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive
8X DVD+/-RW Drive
ATI Radeon HD 4330 512 MB
Integrated 2.1 High Definition Audio
No Keyboard or Mouse Selected
No Mouse Requested
Dell 1520 802.11 b/g/n wireless card
Piano Black

Popped it back down to Win7Home (I disagree, but I could be convinced otherwise ), still a lesser capable CPU, and the *required* GPU for 7.1AC3 over HDMI. Stock RAM/drive. Upped to 802.11n WiFi, which IMO is really required for clean HD streaming.

$547.

So it's $52 less than the Mac mini, and has 1GB more RAM, and twice the hard drive space. Fair enough.

But... it's *Windows*. *shudder*

This really isn't the mini market either. It's the cheap market. As always these days, when you start making something match Apple component to component, the price usually evens out. It's just that for some uses, some people don't need the latest chipsets and raw processing power and the cheaper options start to make sense. This is one of those cases for myself.

Absolutely. Apple isn't going to compete on the low end... but in the range they target, they're *quite* cost-competitive in most cases.

Whatever I get is going to be stuck in my media cabinet behind opaque doors and the logo doesn't matter to me. All that matters is that it plugs into my existing set-up easily, can output 1080p, and can navigate to motogp.com reliably.

I hear ya.

[Robo]

Still waiting for a Blu-Ray drive in the $799 Mac mini.

[Robo]

...still waiting for a Blu-ray drive in the Mac mini.