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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-01-26, 09:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
All COVID has done for me is make me realize how screwed we are - as a culture, species, nations, etc. - if something worse ever arrives (COVID or otherwise). Some future mutation that is deadlier than Delta and more contagious than Omicron. We've failed miserably for two years, just taking the warm-up pitches. Governments, individuals, companies, etc. We've slap-fought it in many instances. We've exempted/excepted things that maybe we shouldn't have?

At this point, that's my only real concern. As much as people scream about the death toll we've had thus far (although I've noticed they're a bit selective in that, once leadership changes hands), what are they going to do when it's millions of people catching it, and dying within 48-72 hours, no ifs/ands/buts? When testing positive is pretty much a sure-fire death sentence?

And don't tell me that isn't a plausible, possible scenario. Isn't anything, at this point? Has that not been one of the lessons in all this? Five years ago I wouldn't have believed any of the shit that's happened the past two years around the world could've happened. So my "nah...no way; that's a silly-ass Syfy movie" screen doors are completely off their hinges and I doubt/downplay nothing. I expect anything at this point. I don't dwell on it, I don't wake up from nightmares. But in my quiet moments, I can't help but sometimes wonder "gosh, what if...". *shrug*

I'm human. And I've never wanted to be more wrong and off-track about something in my entire life. I'll be ecstatic to miss that call, and to realize "whew...it was never really possible because [fill in the blank]...".

Show me evidence* that the unthinkable can't happen, or STFU. I'd love to know that it couldn't. Or that it it super-unlikely.
The conventional wisdom is that the deadliest viruses burn out their own fire before it can spread too far. Zaire Ebola kills between 40-90%, doesn't transmit in air, and generally renders victims bedridden within days. But, its epidemiology shows the potential to become a global problem. Symptom onset has been observed between 2 days, a flash fire, if you will, and 21 days - which would offer plenty of time to spread around. Death occurs 6-16 days from onset of symptoms. These figures represent windows which could translate into "super-spreader" level characteristics if the virus mutated in such a way to increase the asymptomatic period, become transmittable via aerosol, come into a domestic food supply, or more likely, a niche food supply, like game meats or unpasteurized product, who knows? Africa has had outbreaks in 2016, 2017, and 2018, and the mortality rate was about 40%. Following the most recent outbreak, WHO declared it a world health emergency. This is important because front and centre of the official Public Health Emergency of International Concern (PHEIC) declaration is the potential for implications beyond the borders of the effected nation. Basically, it might spread in unanticipated ways...

Closer to home there's Hanta, also with mortality around 40%, a long gestation of 1-5 weeks, and presence in rodent and deer populations. Few if any known cases of human to human transmission, but if it developed that capacity? Perfect storm. No existing vaccines yet. Ebola actually has two vaccines with emergency use authorization that came in 2019 and 2020, like someone was listening to the CDC perhaps...

But it doesn't even have to have the Hollywood proportions one can imagine above to become more sinister than anything COVID has done thus far. It wouldn't have to be much deadlier than Delta or much more contagious than Omicron to completely rewrite the rules. The death rate in the USA today is already reaching the same levels as the peak of the third wave. We're near 900,000 dead in the US. Something twice as deadly, resistant to antibodies, an 5X more infectious could have seen that number at nearer to 10M... Something that disproportionately effects different demographic groups could be an absolute disaster. Children have been largely spared, but there have been diseases that disproportionately effect pre-pubeescent nervous systems, that's pretty horrible too. Imagine a scenario where a generation of people are left impaired physically, cognitively, developmentally...

Throughout this pandemic there have been only two classes of remedy posited, they are the only two I can think of: Medical and Behavioral. People have just straight up invented reasons to ignore both, and it's biting us, you can only only image what will happen if it bites harder.

.........................................

Last edited by Matsu : 2022-01-26 at 09:51.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-01-26, 09:46

Yeah. That’s the other side of the coin. A virus is gonna do what a virus does.

Those who are hinging their entire identity/standing on “resisting” always will, so I don’t know other than to just look out for myself and be smart/careful, make better decisions about where I go and why, who I encounter, etc.

I’m in a good position to stay safer than most. Single, no kids, I live alone and, in real-life, a bit of an introvert/solo act and quiet mouse (no, seriously!)

I’ve been “social distancing” way before it was even a phrase (or cool to do so), so I can do all that standing on my head.

I just worry about a few others, I guess. But some of them seem hell-bent on catching it so I’m trying to give myself permission to let it go and quit carrying that bucket/weight.

I turn 53 today…as good a time as any to maybe shift gears and do a little rewiring/resetting when it comes to some of that.

It’s a real waste of energy (and an absolute sleep-wrecker) to continually worry about those who don’t worry about themselves, I’m coming to realize/accept. I’m having to learn to just shrug and mutter “whatever” more than I’d prefer to re: some people in my life/orbit.
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PB PM
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2022-01-26, 10:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
It’s a real waste of energy (and an absolute sleep-wrecker) to continually worry about those who don’t worry about themselves, I’m coming to realize/accept. I’m having to learn to just shrug and mutter “whatever” more than I’d prefer to re: some people in my life/orbit.
I have found this the most difficult aspect of this entire pandemic. I found it rather easy to stop caring about those who chose not to care about what’s happening. Kind of put some people off to the side of my life, because it wasn’t worth the energy anymore to deal with them. While it makes life easier, I do wonder if it’s not harmful for us to think this way. The divisions in society are getting bigger, more tribal like in the past, it’s troubling to say the least. The entire fabric of the modern world functions because despite our differences we’ve managed to work together. If we lose that, the low stock of goods we’ve seen in the stores will be the least of our worries.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-01-26, 11:21

Ignorance and selfishness are a deadly combination. It's counterintuitive, in a world with so much information freely available, that there is so little capacity to make sense of it and act accordingly.

.........................................
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-01-26, 11:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
The divisions in society are getting bigger, more tribal like in the past, it’s troubling to say the least. The entire fabric of the modern world functions because despite our differences we’ve managed to work together. If we lose that, the low stock of goods we’ve seen in the stores will be the least of our worries.
Yeah, but it ain't me either. I'm not the one loudly choosing to die on this hill, proudly proclaiming my unwillingness/desire to do what most probably did with no fuss or theatrics 65+ years ago.

Again, all this is a 21st-century thing...we're so fat, happy and entitled, we have to look for/make up shit to feel oppressed and "controlled" over, some people. Everybody wants to be Paul Revere, nobody wants to sweep out the stalls.
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drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2022-01-26, 14:41

Talked to a friend/colleague whose politics skew right and whose wife works at a large hospital in our area, and was not surprised to hear him still referring to Covid as just the flu and Omicron as just a cold. I mean, kind of, but still...

...
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-01-26, 15:20

Was it my dad?
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
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2022-01-26, 15:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
Yeah, but it ain't me either. I'm not the one loudly choosing to die on this hill, proudly proclaiming my unwillingness/desire to do what most probably did with no fuss or theatrics 65+ years ago.

Again, all this is a 21st-century thing...we're so fat, happy and entitled, we have to look for/make up shit to feel oppressed and "controlled" over, some people. Everybody wants to be Paul Revere, nobody wants to sweep out the stalls.
Cannot disagree with this.
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-02-14, 14:54

The Omicron wave seems to be cresting in Ontario, with ICU cases down under 400 for the first time in weeks. This seemed to happen with a higher death rate though. Reported deaths as of Dec 30, 2021 were 10,194. Reported deaths as of today are 12,101. Nearly 2000 new deaths reported in 45 days...

About 42.378 deaths per day between Dec 31, 2021, and Feb 14, 2022, I suspect predominantly among unvaccinated, but we'll have to wait for more data...

If we look at the totality of Ontario's COVID response, beginning with closures on March 24, 2020 until Dec 30, 2021, about 647 days, we have an average death rate of 15.76 deaths per day for that time. Of course it was much higher during peaks compared to lulls, but this recent Omicron peak has been no less lethal than 2nd and 3rd waves. It stands to reason now that relatively high vaccination rates combined with mask mandates and movement and gathering restrictions forestalled mortality rates that could have been 4-5X higher this past month.

Meanwhile an American backed astroturfing campaign rages at borders and nation's capital because a few wingnuts think mandates are bad...

.........................................
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-02-14, 15:41

Everyone I know who has gotten it since December - Mom, sister, three others I know - have struggled mightily with it. This whole "no worse than a minor cold" horseshit some (including all of them, it seems) have bought into has been an eye-opening hit upside their heads.

When all you do is listen to your brother-in-law or the resident "know-it-alls" on Facebook, this is how you get corn-holed by life.

"I didn't think it was going to be like this..." and so forth.

Well WTF did you think it would be? A spa day? A casual round of Yahtzee? Some struggle less than others, sure. But there's certainly no "good", easy version of this that I'm aware of. At best, it's still a 3-5 day pain-in-the-butt of a cold/flu-like experience, from all I'm hearing/reading/seeing. Mom's going on her fourth week of weakness/aches. My sister was released from the hospital but she's still not 100% either. Today marks four weeks and one day from the first day Mom started feeling bad. And while she appears to be out of the woods/past the worst, she's nowhere near 100%. She's has no energy/strength/endurance. Walking from the kitchen to the living room completely zaps her.

Apart from all that, this thing has made everyone an asshole and terminally stupid. Those are the symptoms/effects we don't really talk about. How about "being completely full-of-shit and knowing nothing more about this than you do finances, beer, aviation, gourmet cooking, international trade, music and women" being added to the list?

I'm ready to absolutely choke everyone in my orbit, these past 4-6 weeks.





Note the lack of smileys above...
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2022-02-14, 15:48

My stepmom casually mentioned that she had it this winter, so I surmise it was indeed rather mild for her. (Vaxxed and boosted, to be clear.)

I don’t know why people go through all those “it’s not that bad”, “it’s just like the flu”, etc. gymnastics. Just get boosted, wear a mask at indoor gatherings, and avoid getting it.

Jury’s mostly out on how far-reaching long COVID could be. We just don’t know yet. Could be pretty bad.
  quote
Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2022-02-14, 16:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
Meanwhile an American backed astroturfing campaign rages at borders and nation's capital because a few wingnuts think mandates are bad...
This is a truly garbage take. You are fully aware that 95%+ of the people in Ottawa are Canadian, and you are subtly trying to question their patriotism by insinuating that because Americans are donating toward the campaign, they're in charge of it.

Oh look, the idea is spreading.

A number of Canadians think requiring proof of vaccination to eat is insane in the Omicron era. A lot of those are fully vaccinated people. I am not part of this thing, but I fully expect even more will join this cause after witnessing 70,000 people in a stadium watching a football game this weekend, with unmasked elites plastered all over their social media pages.
  quote
kieran
@kk@pennytucker.social
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2022-02-14, 17:10

Wife and I got super hopeful when the submission for children under 5 was announced, only to have it gut wrenchingly pulled back days later. For a few days, it was the most hopeful we've been in two years. Started planning travel, going places, etc...

I know I have a much lower risk tolerance than most people these days, but I have a young child and a wife with a chronic lung disease, so I'd really like for them not to have to deal with Covid. My wife and I are vaxxed and boosted, but I'm really just looking forward to the days when my little one can get vaccinated.

No more Twitter. It's Mastodon now.
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2022-02-14, 17:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
This is a truly garbage take. You are fully aware that 95%+ of the people in Ottawa are Canadian, and you are subtly trying to question their patriotism by insinuating that because Americans are donating toward the campaign, they're in charge of it.

Oh look, the idea is spreading.

A number of Canadians think requiring proof of vaccination to eat is insane in the Omicron era. A lot of those are fully vaccinated people. I am not part of this thing, but I fully expect even more will join this cause after witnessing 70,000 people in a stadium watching a football game this weekend, with unmasked elites plastered all over their social media pages.
It may have started due to COVID mandates, but more and more they are there because they are anarchists, neo-nazi nuts, and a few legitimate people who want to see change. I don’t have an issue with protestors, but I do have an issue with a small percentage of the population trying to hold the rest of us hostage because, “boo hoo, I can’t always get my way.”

Last edited by PB PM : 2022-02-14 at 18:12.
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Frank777
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2022-02-14, 18:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
It may have started due to COVID mandates, but more and more they are there because they are anarchists, neo-nazi nuts, and a few legitimate people who want to see change. I don’t have an issue with protestors, but I do have an issue with a small percentage of the population trying to hold the rest of us hostage because, “boo hoo, I can always get my way.”
The only 'hostage' situation I can see is the border blockage, which has been cleared and traffic is now moving.

You have it backward. The are a bunch of 'legitimate people' and a few nuts that tend to try to glom on to any major event.
(The person carrying the idiocy flag was masked and followed by liberal party-friendly media, who never tried to ascertain who he was for some reason.)

Congrats. Trudeau has invoked the Emergencies Act. Which allows for, among other things, authorizing banks to freeze accounts on the basis of suspicion alone, with full legal immunity. Companies can be forced to provide services and the military can be used as police.

This is an insane overreaction to a bunch of people holding a nuisance street festival outside Parliament without a permit.
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PB PM
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2022-02-14, 18:14

Guess you don’t look outside the center of the universe (Ontario), there are boarder blockages elsewhere too.
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Frank777
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2022-02-14, 18:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Guess you don’t look outside the center of the universe (Ontario), there are boarder blockages elsewhere too.
There are, and as The Centre of the Universe has demonstrated, the Emergencies Act is not necessary to clear them.
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PB PM
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2022-02-14, 18:25

I didn’t see any need for the act either, but I don’t fear government as if they are the boogie man out to get me, they have bigger fish to fry. The enter situation never had to go this far in the first place, all levels of government and the Police messed this up by letting them get their trucks to the locations in the first place.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-02-14, 18:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
My stepmom casually mentioned that she had it this winter, so I surmise it was indeed rather mild for her. (Vaxxed and boosted, to be clear.)
For many it is. But my Mom is 71 and not in the greatest of health to begin with, so that's why I tried so hard throughout October-January to get her to be a little smarter/careful about her activities and things she did/places she went, and to quit showing up at every gathering or whatever as though she was under some true obligation, etc. It's like she thinks her friends and others will think less of her if she's not present at any and all gatherings. I'm like "if they're really your friends, they'll appreciate you taking steps to keep yourself safe and well. They will not think less of you for not showing up to this random, silly thing."

She never sees it like that, and that's been the source of all of our squabbles and bickering the past 2-3 months.

"Mom, if you catch this it's probably going to really do a number on you...you do not want this, I promise. Stop basing decisions on uninformed Facebook chatter/anecdotal 'well, my brother-in-law said...' jibber-jabber, please? You're rolling the dice way too much for someone in your position and I'm so afraid it's going to bite you...".

Four weeks-and-one-day later, I've been nothing but 110% correct in everything I feared/predicted. She's miserable and seems to be running on about 2/3 power (if that).
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chucker
 
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2022-02-14, 18:54

I’m sorry this is happening to you, and yep, the stubbornness with some family members is frustrating.
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2022-02-14, 21:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
This is a truly garbage take. You are fully aware that 95%+ of the people in Ottawa are Canadian, and you are subtly trying to question their patriotism by insinuating that because Americans are donating toward the campaign, they're in charge of it.

Oh look, the idea is spreading.

A number of Canadians think requiring proof of vaccination to eat is insane in the Omicron era. A lot of those are fully vaccinated people. I am not part of this thing, but I fully expect even more will join this cause after witnessing 70,000 people in a stadium watching a football game this weekend, with unmasked elites plastered all over their social media pages.
I question the value of their patriotism based solely on their abject stupidity. Sorry, I’m not much for the flag waving brand of patriotism. These folks aren’t interested in anyone’s well being, so I question how they can be patriots when they place their own convenience above my neighbours’ safety, security and employment. Some misguided notion of freedom that flies in the face of knowledge, reason, evidence? No thanks. Their “patriotism” isn’t worth the beer soaked “Oh Canada,” they belch out during hockey night. It’s just as bad as Trudeau’s breathy affectations about “Canadians,” though that comes from a rather different circle. I know this: these days, the exhortation to God and country almost always signals a bill of goods, maybe it always has...

There’s a healthy dose of tail wagging dog here. It’s obvious to anyone paying attention that the convoy has been planned out ahead of time, and funded, to coincide with a general anticipation of ending mandates, and those right wing American donations aren’t insignificant. Of course people are anxious to see restrictions ease, but not because a bunch of retarded truckers who can barely keep a class A licence think it’s time. Seriously. Listen to them. It’s a smorgasbord of anti-vax, anti-mask, anti-science, anti-immigrant, anti-Semite, conspiracy loving crazy. So now that we’re on the cusp of easing some restrictions anyway, as dictated by evidence based analysis, this fringe coalition comes along, suspiciously timed to make it seem as though they’ve forced governments’ hands. It reeks of opportunism and has very little to do with cross border regulation any more.

EDIT: speaking of Superbowl, let's compare jurisdictions...

American and Canadian rolling death rate for the past two years

Something for the sports analytics crowd. America is currently compiling deaths at a 2.5X greater rate than Canada, based on the rolling 7 day average. And, over the last two years of pandemic, has at times been over 10X more effective at killing its citizens. I'm not envious of that at all, you shouldn't be either...

.........................................

Last edited by Matsu : 2022-02-15 at 09:03.
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PB PM
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2022-02-19, 21:18

Got booster today, purposely went with Moderna (vs PFIZER for the first two). Just some light stiffness in my arm, so far so good.
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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
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2022-02-19, 23:10

Is there a reason you purposely went with Moderna after two Pfizers?

Also, now Novavax is available, for people who have concerns about the relatively new mRNA technology.
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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
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2022-02-19, 23:15

Also, that link mentions the expectation of a combined flu/covid shot in 2024.

Haven't heard anything new lately about the US Army vaccine under development.
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PB PM
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2022-02-19, 23:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
Is there a reason you purposely went with Moderna after two Pfizers?
From what I have heard from health professionals, having a different booster than the first two could lead to better overall protection.
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Anonymous Coward
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2022-02-19, 23:43

Another Moderna booster after Pfizer vaccination here, but just because the Moderna booster is what the Veterans Administration hospital happened to be giving at the time.
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chucker
 
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2022-02-20, 03:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
From what I have heard from health professionals, having a different booster than the first two could lead to better overall protection.
Yes. According to the WSJ, a Moderna booster after Pfizer is more effective. https://twitter.com/migueldeicaza/st...713203726?s=21
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PB PM
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2022-02-20, 09:51

Things got a little annoying overnight, arm/shoulder muscles tightened up like a ratchet, kept me up. Some slight chills, but otherwise fine. No flu/cold like symptoms, no headaches, or anything troubling. Hope the arm is in good shape by Monday.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2022-02-20, 10:00

My (slight, barely noticeable) effects kicked in overnight, especially on my very first one way back in June. It'll probably be all gone by tonight (the discomfort, not your arm ).
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PB PM
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2022-02-20, 10:08

Yeah, I’m not the least bit worried, and yes I hope I still have my arm tonight. this is a much bigger reaction than the first two shots, which I hardly even noticed, but they were PFIZER, so I’m not surprised it is a little different.
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