[Windswept]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Southwest....ap/index.html

Does this theft make anyone else nervous?

I guess I've read too many mystery novels over the course of time; but I *really* don't think the trucks were stolen because propane is expensive now in Mexico. And notice how they were stolen over a holiday weekend, so they'd have plenty of time to get away before the discovery was made. Right out of Sherlock Holmes' "Red-Headed League".

With all the worry about suspect drivers getting fraudulent licenses to drive hazardous material trucks, we manage to leave the actual trucks themselves just sitting in a company parking lot (presumably unfenced ), for anyone to steal. My god. What were those propane company managers thinking - leaving their hazardous material trucks filled and accessible. It's just too much.

And nobody even talks about the truck filled with barrels of cyanide that was stolen in Mexico not too many months ago. Barrels and barrels (18?), full of a major lethal substance. Who would have a 'normal' use for such stuff, I ask you? No one, that's who. Except terrorists.

This long-range planning is right up Al-Qaeda's alley - just the kind of stuff they're good at. *sigh*

Okay, am I just being paranoid, or does anyone else think this incident is worrisome?

Thanks for any replies.

Carol

[BurningWheel]

yes, very worrisome. i think there will be an AQ attack this summer

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by BurningWheel yes, very worrisome. i think there will be an AQ attack this summer

And you know, I honestly think the government is to the point that they're willing to take the chance of attacks here and there in the country; because after all, we *are* so large that even if they take out parts of a few cities, there's still plenty of America left to carry on life and the economy without too much instability.

I think the feds have pretty much come to the conclusion that they really *can't* do everything necessary to prevent attacks - except for in NY, D.C., and a few other highly-sensitive areas. So they're not bothering to raise the terror alert level because it inconveniences everyone. Instead they'll just wait and see. I honestly can't blame them much. Securing America is almost impossible.

Think of the ports and trains, the shopping centers and federal buildings in every major city. Not to mention major sporting and other events coming up.

Couldn't they take the stolen canisters, put radioactive materials in them, and put the small canisters in larger ones to be filled with propane as an explosive (dirty bomb)?

I bet the small plane rentals and the ammonium nitrate fertilizer sales have been monitored by the feds, but what about energy trucks. Sheesh.

Oh well. I guess it's in the hands of fate, destiny, karma, etc.

A propane truck crashing into a nuclear plant. *sigh*

[psmith2.0]

They've been found.

But yes, it was kinda troubling because it might not go this well "next time".

Like it or not, after 9/11 all bets are off. I would've laughed my ass off on September 10, 2001 if someone told me "hey, guess what might happen someday...".

After what happened that day, the idea of some nuts driving a propane truck into [insert target here] doesn't seem so wacky and far-fetched.

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 They've been found. But yes, it was kinda troubling!

But they could have downloaded the propane into Mexican propane trucks to get across the border for storage "until needed". They couldn't very well keep driving around in trucks that had "all points bulletins" on them with every law enforcement agency. That's why they did this over the weekend, so they had a few days to download the fuel and get their own trucks across the border for safekeeping - before the alert went out.

Ok, so I have a fertile imagination. Our southern border is a sieve for terrorists - they can just stroll over and do what they want.

[psmith2.0]

Well, unfortunately, this is the sad, ridiculous bullcrap we now face. Welcome to the 21st century...should be quite a ride.



No reasoning or negotiating with individuals who'd rather kill you than look at you. I don't know how to undo it. Long time coming, anyway. There were signs and early trickles, but nothing "really meaningful" until that September morning, huh?

The Cole was "just a ship, far away". Those embassies? They weren't here, either. Various potshots taken at our military and officials over the years? Random, meaningless hi-jinks, I suppose. The first WTC attack? Just petulant fanatics out for a good time...probably won't ever get worse than that...

I imagine, in a few years, we'll somehow learn to shrug off 9/11 and not view it as any big deal either. I guess we'll wait for something REALLY bad to happen...

[EDS66]

Originally Posted by Carol http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Southwest....ap/index.html Does this theft make anyone else nervous? I guess I've read too many mystery novels over the course of time; but I *really* don't think the trucks were stolen because propane is expensive now in Mexico. And notice how they were stolen over a holiday weekend, so they'd have plenty of time to get away before the discovery was made. Right out of Sherlock Holmes "Red-Headed League". With all the worry about suspect drivers getting fraudulent licenses to drive hazardous material trucks, we manage to leave the actual trucks themselves just sitting in a company parking lot (presumably unfenced ), for anyone to steal. My god. What were those propane company managers thinking - leaving their hazardous material trucks filled and accessible. It's just too much. And nobody even talks about the truck filled with barrels of cyanide that was stolen in Mexico not too many months ago. Barrels and barrels, full of a major lethal substance. Who would have a 'normal' use for such stuff, I ask you? No one, that's who. Except terrorists. This long-range planning is right up Al-Qaeda's alley - just the kind of stuff they're good at. *sigh* Okay, am I just being paranoid, or does anyone else think this incident is worrisome? Thanks for any replies. Carol

Carol,

One negative aspect of any sabbatical is having all that free time on your hands, which in turn means reading more, thinking more, and worrying more.



I would not worry too much about this article. For all I know it could have been someone who wanted to resell propane on the black market to fuel those myriad propane grilles over the weekend.

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by EDS66 Carol, One negative aspect of any sabbatical is having all that free time on your hands, which in turn means reading more, thinking more, and worrying more. I would not worry too much about this article. For all I know it could have been someone who wanted to resell propane on the black market to fuel those myriad propane grilles over the weekend.

Well, that's true about the extra time. I might even subscribe to the newspaper again. I wouldn't let myself do so for ages, because I *love* reading the paper. I read it voraciously; Newsweek, too. But they took up aeons of time, so I had to put them on my verboten list. Tsk. heh

I do think, however, that it's wise to 'hope for the best but plan for the worst'. Wonder who said that? They should have a bunch of females in the Dept. of Homeland Security, because we specialize in worrying and conjuring up 'worst-case' scenarios. I think there's a place for that "skill" (!) in the disaster-planning committees. Don't you? (Say "yes"!!!)

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Well, unfortunately, this is the sad, ridiculous bullcrap we now face. Welcome to the 21st century...should be quite a ride. No reasoning or negotiating with individuals who'd rather kill you than look at you. I don't know how to undo it. Long time coming, anyway. There were signs and early trickles, but nothing "really meaningful" until that September morning, huh? The Cole was "just a ship, far away". Those embassies? They weren't here, either. Various potshots taken at our military and officials over the years? Random, meaningless hi-jinks, I suppose. The first WTC attack? Just petulant fanatics out for a good time...probably won't ever get worse than that... I imagine, in a few years, we'll somehow learn to shrug off 9/11 and not view it as any big deal either. I guess we'll wait for something REALLY bad to happen...

Should we just shrug off Pearl Harbor as well?

[psmith2.0]

Uh, no.

Learn to read between the lines and a bit further than the surface words and get the angle people are coming from, Quag. You never seem to get the true gist of ANYONE'S posts.



Yes, let's "shrug off" Pearl Harbor, by all means. It was nothing...

[HOM]

Originally Posted by Undertaker Should we just shrug off Pearl Harbor as well?

That's it Quagmire, you are now the first person to be put on my ignore list.

[Windswept]

Aw. But he's only 14.

Now, if he'd been in *my* class, he'd "get" those pesky nuances to which pscates is referring.

[psmith2.0]

I'm sorry...maybe I was a bit mean and snappy.

Quag, if you truly didn't get what I was saying, the answer is "no, we should NOT shrug off Pearl Harbor" or any other event like that. Clear?

I think you just misread what I said, or attached the wrong sentiment to it.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 I'm sorry...maybe I was a bit mean and snappy. Quag, if you truly didn't get what I was saying, the answer is "no, we should NOT shrug off Pearl Harbor" or any other event like that. Clear? I think you just misread what I said, or attached the wrong sentiment to it.

I understand. I reread what you said, and I could tell you were joking. I am a little to serious about stuff. I do need to lossen up upon things. But, I do not like when people joke about events that caused alot of lives.

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by Undertaker I understand. I reread what you said, and I could tell you were joking. I am a little to serious about stuff. I do need to lossen up upon things. But, I do not like when people joke about events that caused alot of lives.

Well, Quagmire, he wasn't joking at 'all'. His 'tone' was resigned and appalled - at our inability to 'read the writing on the wall' - to see what was coming down the pike, from all those warning events...those harbingers of the future.

NOT joking at ALL. Just the opposite, really. He was giving a rather gloomy assessment of our tendency to put blinders on, to not SEE what is right in front of us.

Don't feel bad though. Just read carefully each time. There are 'clues' in people's writing that indicate their tone in what they're saying. Reading subtle posts several times should help a lot.

[HOM]

Originally Posted by Undertaker But, I do not like when people joke about events that caused alot of lives.

Then you should stay out of the boobies thread.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by Undertaker But, I do not like when people joke about events that caused alot of lives.

Believe me, I wasn't "joking", and take this stuff VERY seriously (to a fault, perhaps ).

It's our future, and my kid's future. I certainly don't want this country to become like other parts of the world, where we have to get nightly news reports about a Starbucks or popular multiplex in Denver or Portland blown up by suicide bombers, taking 35 innocent Americans with him? Or a suitcase full of something really nasty set off at a Braves or 49's game? Or some sort of massive bomb going off in prime locations in San Diego or Orlando, killing hundreds of vacationing families?

It wouldn't have to be anything big and dramatic, either. I think enough "little" things, at the "right" places (malls, theaters, amusement parks, ballgames, schools, etc.) and harming the "right" people (children, seniors, civilians, teenagers, babies, etc.) would be a devastating and demoralizing blow that, being completely honest, I now question our ability to recover from or properly respond to.

The cynic in me says we'd probably just sit and take it, while idiot politicians on BOTH sides of the fence try to make career points from it.



I don't think any of the above scenarios are a wild stretch either. Not anymore. And I'm actually find myself surprised sometimes that they haven't happened. I truly hope my "surprise" lasts forever...but if not, then I hope my cynical side is truly proven wrong, once and for all. I'd welcome it.

That's nothing I'd "joke" about, Quag.

Carol's post above says it perfectly (thanks, C).

[psmith2.0]

Damn, I'm one gloomy, pessimistic sumbitch, huh?



Actually, no. Not at all. Just this one topic hits a little close, that's all.

I should probably bail on this thread before I blow a gasket or something!



Back to General Discussion I go...

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Damn, I'm one gloomy, pessimistic sumbitch, huh?

Of course not. I think you stated exactly the truth. The 'truth' is what's gloomy. And there's so little we can do about all these threats. I think people try not to think about it, in order to go on living each day in the only way they really can. Our 'blinders' are a coping mechanism.

Actually, no. Not at all. Just this one topic hits a little close, that's all. I should probably bail on this thread before I blow a gasket or something! Back to General Discussion I go...

It hits close for me too. I can remember every second of that morning as if it were 'this' morning. And I had two boys in my homeroom whose birthday (13th) it was that day. Both named 'Adam'; both were good friends with each other. Our school went into lockdown for two hours. The whole morning was 'beyond' surreal.

[DMBand0026]

I don't think any one of us, no matter where we are in the world, will ever forget where we were when we first heard of and saw the horrifying images coming out of NY, DC, and Pennsylvania that morning. I shudder even thinking about them.

Interestingly enough, we watched a video in my class (A building construction for the fire service class) this evening about the construction of the twin towers and what exactly caused the collapse. A lot of footage from that morning was shown, brought back a lot of memories and almost a tear to my eye.

What happened that day was incredible...unbelievable...all the clichŽs at once. But it still rings so true. And there are 3,000 people (including 343 fire fighters, over 400 emergency workers total) dead as a result. It's so sad to think that in a few short years when the kids who were too young to remember 9/11 are going through school, it won't mean anything to them. It will be forgotten, and lost as just another page in our history.

pscates...what you said wasn't so far off, it will be shrugged off, and we all know it. I just hope that some people never forget. I know I won't. We are all reminded of it daily in the fire service, it's something I won't be able to escape for the rest of my life. Because even though I wasn't a fire fighter on 9/11, 343 of my brothers died that day, and that's something that you can't just shrug off. In case you're wondering...9/11 had nothing to do with my decision to go into the fire service.

The day we forget is the day we truly become the saddest country on God's green earth.

Never let go of the pain, and never forget where you were and how you felt when the world stopped turning.

[psmith2.0]

Well, I'm hoping it's never "shrugged off". May as well lie down and take whatever happens, then. Not acceptable.

Anyway...

Lest I be labeled a "jingoistic, bloodthirsty neanderthal Bushie" (oh wait a minute, this isn't .com AO...I KNEW there was something cooler about this place!), I'll skootch and leave this thread in capable hands. Blown gaskets and stuff, you know?

[Lee Ho Fook]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 I imagine, in a few years, we'll somehow learn to shrug off 9/11 and not view it as any big deal either. I guess we'll wait for something REALLY bad to happen...

It's already happened in Russia, at least twice. Well once in Russia proper and once in Chechnya. Dirty bombs have been found and diffused prior to any serious contamination, both in the mid to late 90's, long before 9/11.

9/11 while traumatic, unfortunately wasn't a surprise at all. Things are unfortunately going to get much worse.