Rocket Surgeon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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Eh. Nobody would use their real name on a public forum and then say things like that, so I'm sure Ken's safe.
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: Dec 2005
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As this process has gone on, I've come around to Trump. By no means in a way that I support him or ever will, but in the sense that I think in the long run his run in this campaign will lead to a resetting of our political establishment on both sides. It's actually been refreshing in a weird way to see a politician (even if he is a new one) just speak his mind and not always cling to the party line and beliefs. We do need more of that. It's been refreshing to see Bernie do that as well. He (un)fortunately just hasn't been as inflammatory and media drool inducing so he hasn't received the same attention as Trump. I do think Hillary is a bad candidate and I think this race between her and Trump will be a lot closer than some think. There are a lot of low and lower middle class white people out there across the country who are going to support him very strongly. he's actually more socially progressive than most of the republicans have ever been, he's pro military (which most americans are), and he is a business man and a "builder".... americans love thinking they are the builders of the world... even though we have been left in the dust. The other thing is.... the Northeast is a very very weird political environment...... it may lean "democratic" but it isn't really liberal. I see the very real possibility of some major upsets in the Northeast for Trump.... he could very well flip NY, and if that happens... that may be all he needs. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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Is Ted a Dominionist? I don't know, but he's never distanced himself from it, and he never shies away from making sure we all know that he's more religious than patriotic. All voodoo aside, the guy is pretty much reviled by everyone he's ever met, at least everyone he works with. The dude eats hair ffs. Last edited by 709 : 2016-04-29 at 07:26. |
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Formerly “AWM”
Join Date: May 2009
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Perhaps I am alone in thinking this, but right now I feel that if it comes down to Donald and Hillary, Donald has a better than fair chance.
Politics is weird, people remember and forget often nonsensical things, and vote antithetically to their own best interests as perhaps judged by the outside. Personalities that should offend, sometimes don't, sometimes they're lauded precisely because they seem to make no attempt at dignified decorum. In Toronto we elected Rob Ford just because we were sick of the rest of them. The establishment candidates didn't know what hit them - leading up to 2010, none of the political pundits were able to see it, not 18 months before, or even 12, but with 3 months to go, he was in an insurmountable position. And, all around southern Ontario municipal incumbents were getting trounced - which is rare in Municipal politics in this part of the world. But everyone decided, simultaneously it seems, that they were sick and tired of their municipal leaders. The same thing could befall Hillary if Donald's brand is sufficiently positioned outside "the establishment". How this works out for various congressional and representative races, I'm not fully certain. I think some of the early Republican fear is not so much that he can't win the White-House, but maybe that he doesn't drag enough party candidates along by his coat-tails. ......................................... |
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ಠ_ರೃ
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
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That's exactly what happened in Minnesota when we elected Jesse Ventura governor. The establishment candidates were so completely uninspiring that a lot of people said fuck it and voted for "The Body." It ended up being a very close three way result with Ventura winning under 40% of the vote, mostly at the expense of the Democratic candidate.
I'd be interested to see how an "outsider" fares when on a major party ticket. I find both Hillary and Trump to be undesirable for different reasons. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
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Trump (and also Sanders supporters) aren't voting against their own interests. A large number of Americans have figured out that the system is rigged against them and in the favour of a privileged elite. And they want to break the system. I have no doubt that there are a number of university grads who have been indoctrinated enough to think that Venezuela is some kind of capitalist setup and Sanders' ideology can actually work. But I know far more Trump supporters and I think they believe they are using him every bit as he's using them. They simply want to break the stranglehold on power that many of the elite families have, and they see him as someone who can do that. Even when it's pointed out that he's one of those elites. The fact that the establishment has made Trump out to be an anti-pc villain is enough for them. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Don't be so sure I was referring to both Trump and Sanders, or either of them exclusively. Different reasons for different folks.
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
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And how did that turn out for you? |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
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I did not expect that you did actually. I meant it at a more general level, referring to how things further unfolded after the election. Often - generally even - the "screw you" impulse in politics does not lead to positive results.
When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
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Given that kind of disrespect and administrative chaos on the side of the elite/establishment candidates, there are plenty of people in Toronto that would still elect Rob Ford all over again, even knowing about his addiction issues. In short: yes, Trump has a shot at this. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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Of course he has, and the minute he gets federal funding, watch out. He will raze Hillary.
Myself, I have a soft spot for Trump. I did a thing a few years ago about Trump and his family and whatnot, and the guy is entirely likable. I had ~20 hours of footage and B-roll to sift through, and in that was a lot of cute moments with his kid(s) and wife, his adult kids being funny and human off-screen, and in general he came off as a guy that lucked into money and used it as he could. Not particularly smart in any way, but a decent family guy. That said, as the leader of The Free Great Good eh, OK World, Trump is obviously a terrible choice. Worse than Hillary? Maybe. Not worse than Cruz by a longshot. So it goes. Last edited by 709 : 2016-05-03 at 14:25. |
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Rocket Surgeon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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And 'anti-establishment' in that none of the voters are smart enough to even know what the 'establishment' is or what it's ostensibly part of. If I could sit back and watch it burn I'd be delighted, but unfortunately I have an arena seat, and the exit doors are chained. :/
So it goes. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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[Wonders to self: Should I tell him it leads to an open sewer?] Take the red pill! - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Miller actually did well gaining lots of administrative freedom for Toronto, not so well in exercising it...
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
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But enough about Toronto mayoral politics, as fascinating as they are On a more general level, what I find interesting is the use of the words "elites" and "establishment", when it comes to political analysis and argument. By your measure, they would appear to be those representing or associated with "union interests, social activists and artists". But those groups hold relatively little power. The power of unions in North America has declined greatly in the last 30 years. Social activists have very little hard power. And as for artists, . To see the real power, follow the money. Ford was part of the money and represented the money in his political decisions. Trump is part of the money. Edit: And just to clarify, my view is that Hillary almost certainly would represent the money as well, in her own way. I think that she has better judgement and temperament for the Presidency than Trump, although that is setting the bar pretty low. She is conservative - far too conservative for my taste - and aside from her stance on a couple of hot-button social issues, could fit in as a traditional Republican candidate. As for Sanders, I don't think that he would have the ability to get anything done in Washington at all. Hillary is probably the best of a bad lot, IMO. When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray. Last edited by Chinney : 2016-05-03 at 22:10. |
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Formerly “MumboJumbo”
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Listen Liberal by Thomas Frank
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I think he is right about the problem but wrong about the outcomes with regard to Democratic Presidential prospects. When looking for analogous campaigns to this one, I think we will find ourselves thinking about Scott Brown vs Martha Coakley. Coakley lost to Brown and then later lost to Baker in a campaign for the governorship. Coakley as a candidate just seems unable to connect with enough voters to get her campaign across the finish line even in a state like Massachusetts. I suspect the presidential campaign will unfold in a very similar manner. |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK's most densely packed city. It's not London...
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Scott Brown, a lawyer, elected representative, before being elected to the Senate for one term is not a Trump. You might suggest Baker is, but he at least was involved in Government for a long period before becoming a 'businessman.' And certainly, Coakley is not a Clinton....
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Beer.
I don't even drink beer. |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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If someone told me 10-15 years ago, "hey, out of 300M+ people to pull from, guess which two unqualified assholes this country will actually make the two frontrunners for the Oval Office gig?", I would've laughed him out of the room when I heard the names (after smacking him in the head for wasting my time with such a lame, weak attempt at being a smart-ass/troll).
This isn't even funny anymore. |
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