[m4hl3r]

Hello.

My littlesister have been out looking for a new screen, to hook up with her PC - Windows, sad, I know. Then she spotted this Apple flatscreen Studio Display 20".



I havn't been able to find any real info about it. Niether anywhere to buy one .. Anyone know who I should contact ? Simply call Apple and ask if they still have one in stock ?

Have anyone of you ever tried this "old" display ? What's your opion, anything will help - I'm kinda stranded.

Thanks in advance

M4hl3r

[Bryson]

If I remember correctly, that display has an ADC connector (RAS Syndrome there... ) on it, so you won't be able to connect it to a normal PC without an expensive and clunky adaptor.

Plus, it's discontinued, so you'd have to buy it from eBay or similar. Apple won't have any.

Take a look at the current 20" Cinema displays if she likes the Apple "look."

[psmith2.0]

Yeah, it has that Apple Display Connector which pretty much made it work with only Apple gear (and only certain ones, at that).

The newer, DVI-based displays are a bit more flexible and friendly to other computers and platforms. And the Apple one is, according to many here, overpriced for what it is (compared to offerings by Dell and others).

So she can't use that clear acrylic one, period. And as for the newer DVI ones, she might be paying a bit more than she has to for the honor.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 So she can't use that clear acrylic one, period.

She could (through an expensive adapter). It just probably wouldn't be worth the hassle.

This thread will quickly turn into a series of Dell 2005FPW buying suggestions.

[psmith2.0]

Yeah, I remember there being a $300-400 adapter thing. But who in the right mind would buy that AND the display. Plus, I believe the adapter limited the use of the display in some critical ways.

It's been so long, but I remember seeing it in a Macworld ad years ago (pre-DVI Cinema Displays), going to their website and soon realized "what a pain...who would ever buy this thing?".

[chucker]

Nah, the adapter isn't anywhere near that expensive. It's usually in the $100 area.

Still, buying a used display, then getting a $100 just so you can use it, and then probably suffering various features that won't work? Pff.

[FFL]

I believe the adaptor is only $100 or so from Dr. Bott...

yep...
http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?code=0111-DVAD

[psmith2.0]

There was SOMETHING, dammit, that was like $299!

It was a good four or so years ago.

Assuming it's the same product, perhaps it has dropped to a more reasonable $100 (now that the ADC displays are gone). But it struck me, several years ago, quite hard because it was ~$300.

EDIT: The item I'm remembering isn't that product on the Dr. Bott site. It was a boxy thing, something like a "bridge"...you plugged your ADC into one side and out the other. If anything, it was an ADC>VGA (or vice versa) doo-dad...



I'm getting old, you know...

EDIT AGAIN: Ta-da! I loves Google...

[FFL]

yeah... the VGA converter is three times the price of the DVI converter.
http://www.drbott.com/prod/db.lasso?code=0151-VGAT

I suppose the big question here is, what video out does the OP's littlesister's PC have?

[Luca]

The $300 adapter is to connect an ADC display to a VGA output. It's easy to go down the hierarchy (from ADC to DVI to VGA) because ADC contains a DVI signal, and DVI contains a VGA signal. But going up is a lot more expensive. I don't know exactly how it's done, but it's more than just an adapter that physically rearranges the pins inside the connector (which is the case for, say, an ADC-DVI adapter or a DVI-VGA adapter). A VGA-DVI or VGA-ADC adapter actually has to use a converter box to convert the analog signal from the video output to something the digital display can use (of course, you can get around this by just putting a secondary VGA output on the display).

[chucker]

Well, if you pay that much for a display plus adapter, you might want to just get a better GPU that has DVI

[m4hl3r]

Originally Posted by Bryson If I remember correctly, that display has an ADC connector (RAS Syndrome there... ) on it, so you won't be able to connect it to a normal PC without an expensive and clunky adaptor. Plus, it's discontinued, so you'd have to buy it from eBay or similar. Apple won't have any. Take a look at the current 20" Cinema displays if she likes the Apple "look."

Thanks for the response.. But she has already seen the current Apple Cinema Display. And she went nuts, but my dad said .. NO. She's using her computer 1 or 2hours a day. No games or what so ever. Only chatting. So it would be a total waste of money.
If she was using more time infront of it and not only chatting, the story might would have been different.

And then there's the pricetag, a 20" is $799 dollars.. Which is two/three times more than some of the more less elegant displays.

Are you all sure about that, not being able to connect it to PC ?
Is there any other Apple flat panel Displays that will work on a PC ?
Which features will not work if you use the connector ?
She likes Apples design, and she's probably getting a iMac soon, birtday present - however, that's not quite sure yet.

Thanks for all the replys.

BTW, which display would you then recommend ? Not high end - and definitely rubbish. But a midpriced good display with somewhat elegant design ?

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Luca (of course, you can get around this by just putting a secondary VGA output on the display).

In which case the display needs to have an internal converter.

Note that for high resolutions, VGA can seriously impact the visual quality. The 20-inch's 1680x1050 is a borderline case. I wouldn't recommend driving anything above that in an analog way.

[Luca]

Originally Posted by chucker In which case the display needs to have an internal converter. Note that for high resolutions, VGA can seriously impact the visual quality. The 20-inch's 1680x1050 is a borderline case. I wouldn't recommend driving anything above that in an analog way.

Yeah, but you don't pay lots extra for dual DVI/VGA output on most LCDs! Why spend a lot of money on an external converter when you can just choose a display that costs the same as another display but happens to have an internal converter?

What gets ME is that for a long time, cheap LCDs only had VGA outputs, with no DVI port! It costs more to do that than it does to eschew the converter entirely and just use only DVI (like Apple does), but I guess they were trying to appeal to mass market customers who may have only had VGA on their old computers (and putting both VGA and DVI would cost too much).

Using VGA for LCDs isn't really that great of an idea... even on a 17" (1280x1024), it's noticeably fuzzier and less clear than with DVI. It still looks better than a CRT, but VGA is better for compatibility or convenience reasons than it is as a primary display connector. For instance, my dual-input 17" LCD has the Mac mini connected to the DVI port and an Xbox (by way of a converter) connected to the VGA.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Luca Yeah, but you don't pay lots extra for dual DVI/VGA output on most LCDs! Why spend a lot of money on an external converter when you can just choose a display that costs the same as another display but happens to have an internal converter?

Depends. Once you get to high resolutions, VGA input simply isn't all that useful any more. The 30-inch Dell doesn't have it.

What gets ME is that for a long time, cheap LCDs only had VGA outputs, with no DVI port!

Lots of very low-end TFTs still do that. Bad. Very bad.

Using VGA for LCDs isn't really that great of an idea... even on a 17" (1280x1024), it's noticeably fuzzier and less clear than with DVI. It still looks better than a CRT, but VGA is better for compatibility or convenience reasons than it is as a primary display connector. For instance, my dual-input 17" LCD has the Mac mini connected to the DVI port and an Xbox (by way of a converter) connected to the VGA.

Quoted for truth™, bears repeating®.

[m4hl3r]

Just to end this off.

It's a bad idea to go buy a Apple Studio Display, if it for PC use. Got that. Is it also a bad idea to use it for, let's say a iMac or a MacBook Pro ?

Which displays would you recommend ? They must stay under $350 and if they are cheaper than that, that's only good, but the display must have some sort of quality.

Thanks.

M4hl3r

[chucker]

Originally Posted by m4hl3r Just to end this off. It's a bad idea to go buy a Apple Studio Display, if it for PC use.

Well, that was for the previous-generation ones, with plastic bezel.

The current aluminum-bezel ones work just fine.

Got that. Is it also a bad idea to use it for, let's say a iMac or a MacBook Pro ?

It's a matter of price. Dell consistently has cheaper options, sometimes drastically so. The Apple ones look better, the Dell ones have additional features, etc.

Which displays would you recommend ? They must stay under $350 and if they are cheaper than that, that's only good, but the display must have some sort of quality. Thanks. M4hl3r

You can sometimes get the Dell2005FPW for around $350. 20.1 inches, widescreen, 1680x1050, etc. Other than that, all you can get for that price range is 19 inches and less, usually not widescreen, and usually in the peculiar narrowscreen (5:4) resolution of 1280x1024.

[m4hl3r]

Thanks Chucker. I'll recommend that Dell 2005FPW.

Btw, I know that the new Apple displays work just fine with PC - because I have a 30" hooked up to my iMac, and I sometimes also hook it up with my alienware, without any problems.

M4hl3r - Godnight

[m4hl3r]

Hello.

I tried telling my dad and my sister what a bad idea i would be to buy a Apple 20" - 22" or 23" HD Display (acrylic design). But they didn't really seem to care. So my sister decided to get her hands on a 20" - 22" or a 23" HD Display.

We're going to buy on ebay.
But we've never done that before, what should we look out for?
Dead pixels?
Anything particular?
What would be a good price for a 20"? 22"? 23"?
How do I know a seller isen't just some "scumbag"?

Thanks

M4hl3r

[Banana]

surely there is a reputable seller that sells older hardware?

I'm thinking of OWC or Daystar, but don't know if they actually sell old school monitors.

Googling for apple studio display returned this

http://www.superwarehouse.com/Apple_...9ZM_B/p/235778

[Luca]

It's hard to tell which sellers are good and bad, but if they're listing their items on eBay then there's a decent chance they're trying to rip you off.

No, I'm totally serious. Why buy an OLD, secondhand display that also requires a $100 adapter from a shady buyer on eBay when you can buy a brand new one for the same price? If I were you I wouldn't help them at all with this. They're the ones who wanted your advice, and in refusing it, they no longer deserve your help. I hate it when people selectively take advice, especially when they don't have any good reason to.

To use a dreaded car analogy, this is like saying you'd rather buy a used 2000 Ford Taurus that also requires a few grand in repairs than to just go and buy a brand new one, because you prefer how the old one looks. And if you're spending over $300 on a used 20" cinema display, you're getting dangerously close to the price of a brand new Dell. I mean, if a new Taurus costs $20,000, that would be like the used one costing $13,000 and also needing $3,000 in repairs before you can even drive it.

[m4hl3r]

Originally Posted by Banana surely there is a reputable seller that sells older hardware? I'm thinking of OWC or Daystar, but don't know if they actually sell old school monitors.

Thanks for the quick response

I've called Apple Denmark and their "stores" around in Denmark, and they didn't have any. They told me to go look at a rather small danish homepage, and see if there was anyone about to sell their Display - unfortunately - there wasn't.

I'm not quite sure I know what you are talking about. OWC or Daystar ? what is that, and where can I find "them"? - Thanks

[Luca]

OWC - http://www.macsales.com/ (first Google hit for a search for "OWC" )

Daystar - http://www.xlr8.com/ (fourth Google hit for a search for "daystar" )

[m4hl3r]

Originally Posted by Luca It's hard to tell which sellers are good and bad, but if they're listing their items on eBay then there's a decent chance they're trying to rip you off. No, I'm totally serious. Why buy an OLD, secondhand display that also requires a $100 adapter from a shady buyer on eBay when you can buy a brand new one for the same price? If I were you I wouldn't help them at all with this. They're the ones who wanted your advice, and in refusing it, they no longer deserve your help. I hate it when people selectively take advice, especially when they don't have any good reason to. To use a dreaded car analogy, this is like saying you'd rather buy a used 2000 Ford Taurus that also requires a few grand in repairs than to just go and buy a brand new one, because you prefer how the old one looks. And if you're spending over $300 on a used 20" cinema display, you're getting dangerously close to the price of a brand new Dell. I mean, if a new Taurus costs $20,000, that would be like the used one costing $13,000 and also needing $3,000 in repairs before you can even drive it.

I agree. But I'm not the one who's going to buy the display. That's my sister, from her own pocket. She doesn't like the Dell's. She simply want a Apple. I've been scouting eBay, and I saw some 20" go for around $400, 22" for $600 and some 23" for around $700.

I found a adapter, and I got it almost free from one of my friends - he only asked for 100 DKR - around $15.. So that's solved.

[m4hl3r]

Originally Posted by Luca OWC - http://www.macsales.com/ (first Google hit for a search for "OWC" ) Daystar - http://www.xlr8.com/ (fourth Google hit for a search for "daystar" )

Thanks I thought it was much more complicated. (Some strange / crazy contraction )

Thanks for the imputs about Daystar and OWC, but either one of them got any displays (Apple).

[m4hl3r]

Originally Posted by Banana Googling for apple studio display returned this http://www.superwarehouse.com/Apple_...9ZM_B/p/235778

Well, thanks again, but it seems like that totally overkill, $680 for a 17", the very same display goes for around $250 - $350 on eBay.

Just found this - but it's still a bit overkill .. :P

http://www.nextag.com/apple-cinema-d...20/search-html

[Luca]

Originally Posted by m4hl3r I agree. But I'm not the one who's going to buy the display. That's my sister, from her own pocket. She doesn't like the Dell's. She simply want a Apple. I've been scouting eBay, and I saw some 20" go for around $400, 22" for $600 and some 23" for around $700. I found a adapter, and I got it almost free from one of my friends - he only asked for 100 DKR - around $15.. So that's solved.

I know it's not you buying it, which is why I posted what I did. The way I see it, she asked for your advice, and when you gave her good advice, she CHOSE not to follow it. Now she's asking for more advice? How do you know she'll follow this too? Does she just randomly pick when to listen to you and when to disregard what you tell her?

I'm not saying you need to get into a big confrontation with her or anything, but I'd be offended if someone asked me for help and then completely disregarded what I said, and THEN came back asking for more help. She already made the decision to fend for herself when she chose to ignore what you told her earlier.

[m4hl3r]

Originally Posted by Luca I know it's not you buying it, which is why I posted what I did. The way I see it, she asked for your advice, and when you gave her good advice, she CHOSE not to follow it. Now she's asking for more advice? How do you know she'll follow this too? Does she just randomly pick when to listen to you and when to disregard what you tell her? I'm not saying you need to get into a big confrontation with her or anything, but I'd be offended if someone asked me for help and then completely disregarded what I said, and THEN came back asking for more help. She already made the decision to fend for herself when she chose to ignore what you told her earlier.

Well.. She can be a bitch sometimes, but not now. She asked for advice, and I told her everything I've heard in here. Then I showed her the Dell, but she didn't like the design of the screen - I can't really blaim her for that, because neither can I. So here I am back "where I stated". It simply HAS to be a Apple display, she's not getting the new one, more expensive, not as good looking - she says.

[Luca]

Well then tell her she's not going to be able to do it for under $350, unless she wants a CRT or an old 15" LCD, or maybe an old 17" LCD.

[m4hl3r]

She's well aware of that. $350 was the max. my dad would pay. Now he's .. out of this. She's prepared to pay around $500 - 600. $700 if it's incl. shipping tax etc.

I live in Denmark, and the new 20" Cinema Display cost 6500 DKR - $1025. So there's a pretty big difference between $500 - 700 for a 23" Display and $1025 for a 20".

(sorry if I forgot to tell that the $350 limit is gone, my bad.)