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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-12-10, 23:12

Star Wars just blew up.

Post it all here.

Ahsoka series is official.

Cassian series is official.

Obi Wan series is official (and, yes, Hayden Christiansen will be Darth Vader ).

More to come. No time right now.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-10, 23:25

I deleted my most recent post about all this in the Mando thread. Yeah, quite a bit of news.

Ahsoka, Andor, Kenobi and Rangers of the New Republic shows. Lando show coming too.

Third season of The Mandalorian Christmas 2021, a year from now. Ahsoka and Rangers show will cross over into Mando as well (all set in same timeframe).

The Bad Batch animated show.

Another animated show.

A droid-centric show with Artoo and Threepio.

Patty Jenkins directing X-wing-centric Rogue Squadron movie and the teaser for it is neat.

Other things as well. No mention of the rumored Boba Fett show, but that’s fine because it isn’t necessary. The character, should he live on, can always appear in future Mando, Ahsoka and/or Rangers show since they’re already slated to crossover and we know Boba is part of this timeline.

A lot of news. I’ve not even covered all of it.
  quote
drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2020-12-10, 23:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I deleted my most recent post about all this...

No mention of the rumored Boba Gett show, but that’s fine because it isn’t necessary.
Tell me more about this Boba Gett!




...
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-12-10, 23:45

Andor

The Bad Batch

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
Tell me more about this Boba Gett!


And I'm gonna go ahead and pat my own back, because I called that Ahsoka series dead on! No way in hell they brought that character into The Mandalorian (and Rosario Dawson) for a single, one-off shot. No. Way!

Meeza so happyday!

Jar Jar and the Little Droid That Couldn't coming 2022.



Well, in all honesty, I'm happiest about the Ahsoka series, followed by Obi Wan (very closely), Rogue Squadron, Andor, and then the animated stuff. Disney has racked up 87 million subscribers at $5/month, which is closing in on $500million/month. And I can pretty much guarantee you that most of that money is coming from—and going back to—Star Wars fans.

Judging from fan reaction to The Mandalorian, Disney also knows what to do to keep that money rolling in: Make compelling, well-written Star Wars Stories that combine elements of the OT and brand new characters.

Oh, and Hayden Christensen as Darth Vader. Hmmm. At first I didn't like the idea, but the more I think about it the more it actually makes sense. Hopefully he's matured enough and studied the role enough that he can make it work. There is one thing I can say about him: he does work well (choreographically speaking) with Ewan McGregor, understands the work involved in preparation, and gets the whole light saber thing. Considering he'll be buried in a black suit (except when he's bathing in goo) I think it might just work out. And, it will be familiar. The part fits, if he has his acting chops a bit more polished. Plus, we won't have to see yet another new face on an established character. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt—George "Faster and More Intense" Lucas isn't directing, and that may make all the difference in the world. Let's see how it goes.

As for that Rogue Squadron thing, wow, that might be the best teaser video anyone has ever shot, like, EVER! I smell dead tie fighters.

From StarWars.com:

Quote:
After making her long awaited live-action debut in The Mandalorian, Ahsoka Tano’s story, written by Dave Filoni, will continue in a limited series starring Rosario Dawson and executive produced by Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau.
The right people are doing Ahsoka! Did I say that right?

Then there's Lando and Rangers of the New Republic. This whole thing is just gigantic! And with north of $450million per month, I'm guessing they aren't finished. The next two years will be the biggest in Star Wars history in terms of universe expansion. And with Filoni and Favreau involved in almost all of it, the direction is looking good indeed!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)

Last edited by kscherer : 2020-12-11 at 00:17.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-11, 00:33

It will be interesting to see which of these hit. I doubt they all will, but the biggies (Kenobi, Ahsoka, etc.) should do just fine. But all of them could find their crowd, so who knows. If they’re well done, people will latch on.

The Disney+ rate is also going up $1 in March I believe. So it’ll be 87M subscribers paying $7.99/month. That shakes out to $695M+ a month. Is that right?!

Looks like we’ll have Mando, Ahsoka and Rangers in that post-ROTJ timeframe, while Kenobi and Andor pre-ANH.

Basically hugging the OT, timeline-wise.

I’m 1,000% cool with that.

Yes, Boba Gett. Fett’s brother-in-law. Don’t you people know anything? You call yourselves Star Wars fans?!
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-12-11, 10:26

I missed al this news until this morning. I'm really excited to see how these stories play out. It looks like some of these will be really fun. Some of these having the same timeline means crossovers are inevitable too.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2020-12-11, 10:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
A droid-centric show with Artoo and Threepio.
So I guess they forgot about that show featuring them from the 1980s.

As much as I would like to watch these new shows, Disney+ isn’t on the list of things to sign up for. I’ll have wait for the Blu-ray.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-11, 11:21

The other cool angle is, even if some of these shows don't line up on timelines, when it comes to Jedi, it's easy to have a handful show up to someone after their demise.

For example, the Obi-Wan show is set to take place 10 years after Revenge of the Sith, and then we all know he becomes one with the Force on the Death Star in Episode IV. This Ahsoka show is set in the same timeline as The Mandalorian, which is 9 ABY (nine years since Obi-Wan's "death").

If Force ghost Obi-Wan appeared to Luke a few times in TESB and ROTJ, I see no reason why Force ghost Obi-Wan (the Ewan McGregor version, aged or otherwise) couldn't appear to Ahsoka in a time of doubt or need? They actually knew each other...Obi-Wan was there when we all were introduced to Ahsoka, in the Clone Wars movie. And they had plenty of interaction over the years. And they both share that sad Anakin connection...they both lost someone they cared about, so they've got that link between them forever as well.

So there's always that chance.

And if they got Hayden Christensen back to play in these things, and you acknowledge the presence of Force ghosts, I don't think it's too out of line to maybe imagine a blue, glowing Liam Neeson appearing to Obi-Wan, or even Samuel L. Jackson popping up in that form as well (he also knew Obi-Wan, of course). And of course there's always Yoda. No reason he couldn't appear to Ahsoka either, as she knew him as well.

I'm actually hoping the Ahsoka show, considering its timeline (post-ROTJ), might take advantage of this, tastefully, on 1-2 occasions if needed...a visit from Obi-Wan and/or Yoda to encourage/advise her adult self?

I don't know if that ability is possessed by every Jedi - Yoda made it sound like Qui-Gon figured it out, but can people learn it after the fact? But we do know for a fact, in the post-ROTJ timeframe, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Yoda all know how to do this, and, therefore, are contenders to possibly show up...Qui-Gon to still-alive Obi-Wan on his show, or Obi-Wan and Yoda, at the very least, to Ahsoka on her show.



BTW, here's my new theory, relating to Grogu's seeing stone experience...

I've heard/read, in two places (and McGregor even mentioned it on a talk show) that he was on the set of The Mandalorian doing wardrobe tests and some "filming" (ostensibly in prep for the Kenobi series).

While everyone is expecting Luke, Ezra or whoever to be the Jedi that sensed Grogu, Ahsoka never specified what kind of Jedi. She did say, in a sad tone, how there weren't many of them left. And she's right...alive ones, anyway.

Is she even aware of Force ghosts? Would she even know such a thing exists? I've not seen all the animated Clone Wars (or Rebels), so I don't know if her character has ever been told about it or has encountered one? In any case, whether she knows about them or not doesn't really matter...they do exist. Her not being aware of them doesn't mean one can't respond/show up.

Who's to say that the Jedi who "answers" Grogu, and points him in the right direction or helps determine his path, isn't the ghost of Obi-Wan Kenobi? In theory, Grogu on that rock last week could've been reaching out to anyone, any Jedi "listening" or feeling anything. Assuming there's any link between Grogu and Yoda (they're certainly the same species, at the very least), Obi-Wan obviously knew Yoda far better than Luke ever did; maybe Obi-Wan is the Jedi who "heard" Grogu through the Force?

While everyone is expecting an older Ezra, or a de-aged/cloaked/voiceover-only Luke/Mark Hamill, what if the big "ohmigosh!" moment/reveal in the season finale next week is Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan, appearing to Grogu? Nobody else - Mando, etc. - even has to see him. It could just be a Force user-to-Force user moment between this little Baby Yoda (literally or otherwise) and someone who knew Yoda better than any other possible candidate and might've been predisposed to "hear" Grogu's call more than others?

I wouldn't discount it, not with the realization that these shows are all now officially a thing, McGregor has said he's been in training and getting his chops back, that he visited the Mandalorian stage/set, etc. There's either a Kimmel or Fallon appearance on YouTube where McGregor talks about wearing the robe again (and it's recent...2020, earlier this year).

That solves a lot of problems (not having to try and de-age Hamill, how Ezra appearing might not have the biggest impact for those of us who didn't watch Rebels). But Obi-Wan Kenobi, showing up to counsel/comfort Grogu in some way, or to tell him something he needs to know? People would lose their minds, and that's just the kind of reveal/moment this season has produced already, on three occasions...Bo Katan, Ahsoka Tano and Boba Fett. So why not a fourth, especially one we already know has signed-up to be part of this Disney+ sandbox, and whose own show begins production in 2021?

I'm just sayin'...

I would actually put more money/confidence on that than anything involving Luke/Mark Hamill, Ezra or this Cal(?) guy I keep hearing about. I kinda think the responder to Grogu's "reaching out" session has been under our nose all along...we just have to think slightly outside the box, and from a certain point-of-view. Who said the Jedi who searches Grogu out is a living one? I don't think those things matter when it comes to those guys; they're not any less powerful or intelligent in ghost form, are they? And if Force ghosts do/can appear to others (non-Force users), then Obi-Wan could tell Mando directly what to do re: Grogu...keep him and watch over him, seek out Luke Skywalker, etc. (assuming Mando isn't frightened by his appearance and tries to shoot him or something).

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2020-12-11 at 11:57.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-11, 11:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
So I guess they forgot about that show featuring them from the 1980s.
I don't even remember that show. Which one was this?

Disney+, in its current form (with just one original show) is a bit of tough sell, for sure (most of us fans own the movies and can watch them any time we want and don't need to be paying for the service). But once a few of these other shows (Ahsoka and Rangers of the New Republic and/or Obi-Wan Kenobi) all start to land, and then, in the course of a year, you've got one SW series ending and then another one starting up within a few weeks, that $7.99/month might be a stronger draw, for sure.

I think that's what they're shooting for. Because I, personally, don't watch/rewatch movies enough to pay monthly for access to them. Typically, once I see a movie, I'm done. Unless it's something in the Star Wars/Batman/Scorsese type of areas, which I'll either opt to own outright, or watch when they pop up on TV if I'm in the mood (even with the commercials, editing, etc.). I'd never subscribe to Disney+ to watch those Marvel movies over and over (once is about enough, thanks), I've seen all the animation/Pixar things already, I already own the OT, etc. So it's original, exclusive fare like The Mandalorian and these upcoming shows that are the draw, and the key to the service growing. If they're at 87M subscribers now, after just two seasons of one Star Wars-related show, they'll blow way past that 100M mark (and beyond) once these other shows start to air (especially if they're getting good word-of-mouth and look to be another Mandalorian-level hit and level of fun).

100M subscribers paying $7.99/month shakes out to an unholy revenue stream that funds anything they'd ever want to do.

Am I plugging in those numbers correctly? They're currently at 87M subscribers, right? Getting to 100M in the coming year or so isn't far-fetched at all. So 100M x $7.99 shakes out to just under $800M...a month. That's kinda getting into some real money, right?

125M subscribers - totally possible in the next several years - each laying out $7.99 a month brings in just under $1B ($998,750,000) a month. Good grief...no wonder these streaming outfits are making such a play for subscribers.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2020-12-11 at 12:07.
  quote
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-11, 13:10

The last episode of the Mandalorian (chapter 15) had a scene which perfectly captured everything that's right about this show and by comparison really highlights the major deficiencies of the prequel trilogy (and in some ways the sequel trilogy, which has different problems). I think if the prequels could have had more of the texture of the sequels, they would already have been a lot better, but they still fail badly in comparison to just one scene here:

The extended scene in the Imperial Officers' mess proves Favreau and the writers/producers understand both the material and the audience. The whole sequence takes about 5.5 minutes from early dramatic tension, a contextual cut away scene, the building dramatic tension at the airing of philosophical differences, to guns (nee blasters) a-blazing. We advance the plot while capturing the essential political struggle from both points of view, no less in expository dialogue that also fleshes out a character's history, and it's all fit within a contextually appropriate sequence in the story arc.

OK, Less than six minutes to define a character, the essence of the difference between the empire and the republic, and the plight of those caught between them, and then... guns! just about perfect for this story telling vehicle. Did Lucas do as much as well in 6+ hours worth of prequels?

I can't think of a single scene that does it as well in any of the prequels, nor does the entirety of the prequel trilogy manage to drive the point home with a blaster as well, despite spending countless plodding scenes on the basic concept. Sure, you can do this stuff long form to emphasize different subtleties, but you have to know what your material is. Star Wars is not War and Peace.

Last edited by Matsu : 2020-12-11 at 20:16.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-12-11, 13:25

Yep. And they only seem to need about 100million per month to roll all of these shows through.

This is a monster money-maker for Disney, and they're going to rake it in provided this 10-show* rollout is spot-on! Or at least half of it.

Something tells me that the right folks are involved, and that Rian Johnson/J.J. Abrams are gnawing on their egos right about now.

Edit: It appears that Rogue Squadron is a theatrical release (i.e., feature-length film). Here is a complete rundown of a very ambitious 5-year Disney+ schedule, including new Indiana Jones stuff.

Also, let's keep this thread limited to the Star Wars universe. All of the other stuff can get it's own thread … or something.

* "Obi-Wan Kenobi"; "Ahsoka"; "Rangers of the New Republic"; "Andor"; "The Bad Batch"; "Visions"; "Lando"; "The Acolyte"; "A Droid Story"; "The Mandalorian".

"Rogue Squadron" directed by Patty Jenkins and an unnamed project directed by Taika Waititi both appear to be theatrical movies rather than shows.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)

Last edited by kscherer : 2020-12-11 at 14:39.
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2020-12-11, 18:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I don't even remember that show. Which one was this?
I don’t know the name if it, I was too young, but have heard about it. It was a kids show, and apparently it was terrible, like the Christmas special.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-11, 19:22

Anything with Threepio usually is. Probably my least favorite character of the entire property...naturally he’s in every single movie!

Ah, found it. Yeahhh...

I can’t believe I’ve never heard of it, although in 1985 I was 16 and had drifted from SW, two years after ROTJ. I was fully into guitar/playing in bands and not much else at that time, so a lot of things probably slid under my radar.

I can’t really get excited about a Lando show, but the Mandalorian, Ahsoka, Kenobi
and Rangers (and maybe that Rogue Squadron movie?) are the biggies for me.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2020-12-11, 20:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
For example, the Obi-Wan show is set to take place 10 years after Revenge of the Sith ...
That's almost the exact point in the timeline at the close of Solo: A Star Wars Story, so I wonder if they have plans to incorporate any of that story into Kenobi? He's got beef with Maul, definitely (even though we know how that ends later in the timeline). Crimson Dawn? Maybe Emilia Clarke makes an appearance?

So it goes.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-12-11, 21:20

A fella can hope.

I forgot she was in that movie!

Do you know what I find so hard to believe in all this? That Young Mr. Franchise himself, Finn Wolfhard, hasn’t been signed to a SW project. When you’re in It, Stranger Things and Ghostbusters, SW seems like the only logical place to go. I thought he’d surely be part of this franchise by now.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-01-14, 09:08

Ah, this is encouraging. I’ve already talked about how this character could appear as a Force ghost to counsel/advise his former padawan and friend in a time of need.

Even if it’s just a one-off guest shot, who wouldn’t enjoy seeing a blue, translucent Liam Neeson stepping back into this sandbox, 22 years(!) later?

Disney is crazy if they don’t reach out to him and write at least one episode of the Kenobi show where Qui-Gon appears to Obi-Wan.

Especially since that character was the one who first figured out how to do it, right? Makes total sense that he would contact Obi-Wan (or vice versa).
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-01-14, 11:49

Right there with you. It would be perfect!
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-01-14, 13:24

I would really enjoy that. I've generally liked him as a actor so I could see that going over well in the context of the show too.
  quote
drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-01-14, 15:18

Nearly every former Star Wars actor (or their estates) are likely to agree to dip in for a cameo here or there.

This could be the formal mainstream realization of digital actors that have been discussed for the past 20 years.

By the way, I caught a few episodes of Droids back in the day, but it was clearly aimed at kids.



...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-11-01, 09:49

First trailer for Book of Boba came out.

My interest is strong with this one. Actually it really does look like an interesting take. Some action shots in the trailer but not all action like some of the other trailers and shows. I'm very curious how this will turn out. Sadly, December 29 is the release date so good for New Years but bad for Christmas.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-11-01, 10:26

That was an out-of-nowhere surprise. Looked kinda cool.

And I have a feeling it’s gonna make me like Fennec Shand a lot.

The continuity is a little confusing. Boba’s armor was repainted/cleaned up in those final two episodes of The Mabdalorian, but it looks all dinged and dented again here, suggesting that he and Fennec returned to Tatooine to take care of business before the events in those final Mando episodes? Or he just got into so many scrapes afterwards that it’s all scuffed up again? Either way.

Looks like a crime/gangster type of story, which is great with me. What mobster movie doesn’t feature a scene with all the rival syndicate bosses sitting around a table negotiating and/or trying to make peace?The Godfather trilogy made an art of it on at least four occasions.

PS - Fennec. 😈
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-11-01, 11:40

PS - It’s kinda funny/interesting how, after a lifetime of Star Wars being a spring/summer type of thing (the OT and PT), the sequel trilogy and the Mandalorian (and now Boba Fett) has everyone looking to December/Christmas/winter for their SW fix.

I like it. I think it’s fun, and easier, to throw yourself into a multi-episode type of thing when it’s cold and snowy out and your options for other hobbies/activities may be limited for those not in the deeper South.

Even though I don’t get snowed/iced in, it does get cold here and one of the things I enjoyed last year was looking forward to the next episode (and rewatching older ones). Made those frigid, grey and bleak November and December days hit a little easier, it seemed. Something to look forward to/prepare for, and then go talk about it afterwards (here, for me).

At first it felt odd, but I think it’s panning out. I realize the other shows may come at other parts of the year, but I’m now kinda “programmed” to associate the Mando/Fett stuff with a certain time of year, and I like it. Little winter/holiday treats.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-11-01, 12:43

Me so happy!
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-11-04, 15:35

So they are prequeling the prequels. This will end well.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-11-04, 15:38

Not really. The "Prequels" as we know them introduced Anakin Skywalker. The Acolyte is an entirely different story arc with little to do with Star Wars as we "know" it.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-11-04, 15:42

This seems like it's going to (eventually) explore an origin story for Palpatine, or at least the guy who immediately preceded him.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-11-04, 15:45

Ugh…I just can’t.
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-11-04, 15:48

I can. We have to remember who is heading this stuff up. The Mandalorian was phenomenal, and as I understand it the same group of crafty folks are overseeing much of the production.

In other words, it will be fine.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-11-04, 15:57

There could be some high points, although I can't imagine there are many lightsaber duels in this era.
Otherwise, they are throwing Phantom Menace's contention that the Sith were gone for 900 years under the bus.

So it's a political conspiracy thriller?

What rankles me is that we're obviously going to get an origin story for the Jedi victory over the Sith at some point.

So why are we working backwards through history? Why not start at the beginning?

I guess having butchered the Sequel Trilogy, it's hard to move forward. But looking backward for answers to the Force got us...Midichlorians.

Then again, looking backwards on Trek got us Scott Bakula and Jolene Blalock. (I like Enterprise, although it's bumpy at times.)
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2021-11-04, 16:05

I was hoping the torment was over, but here we go again. reminds me why I was sad when I heard Disney was talking over.
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