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Who's been the greatest leader of the free world?


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Who's been the greatest leader of the free world?
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Franz Josef
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2005-06-26, 17:26

Who gets your vote for the greatest leader of the free world in the last, say 50 years? Not the last world war but the bit after that. JFK for handling the Cuban crisis and facing down Soviet Union? Gorbachev for allowing the Iron Curtain to fall? Or Helmut Kohl for unifying Germany and Europe? George W Bush for a robust repsonse to 9/11? Pope John Paul II for helping to re-establish the authority of the Roman Catholic Church? Putin? Or someone entirely different.

It's a very subjective choice but for my money, it's gotta be Ronald Reagan for facing down Communism and just telling it how it was - the whole evil empire thing. Not that I'm a Republican but I think he did the world a favour when it might have been easier not to.
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Brad
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Join Date: May 2004
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2005-06-26, 17:30

And please, no knocking of other people's opinions. If I see any bickering, this is getting locked away. I don't like the idea of AppleOutsider turning into a political idiot-fest.
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709
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Join Date: May 2004
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2005-06-26, 17:30

Hmm. 'Free World' narrows the playing field a bit (and discounts Gorby if I remember the definition correctly).

I'll have to chew on this for a bit.
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Franz Josef
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2005-06-26, 17:41

Could I just second Brad's comments above - this isn't the place to savage other people's views or to try to point score on politics. It's just for sharing your own opinions. Be nice
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Banana
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Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2005-06-26, 17:44

Wow.

Hard question. Gotta think abt it, too... Not that what Franz suggested weren't up to the stuf, but their contribution is among so many contributions, its hard to single out single leader who was... Teh leader(tm), if you get what I mean.
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709
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2005-06-26, 17:47

Alright, I'm going with Margaret Thatcher. She did even more than RR (imo) to bring the fall of Russia, stood up to the trade-unions, turned Britian's economy around, etc. ...plus I love a strong woman.

My second choice would probably be Nelson Mandela.

So it goes.
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billybobsky
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2005-06-26, 17:54

*Shudder*

I am going to give Nixon credit where credit is due... He opened China, and ultimately the Asian economy that, upon outpacing both the Soviet and American economies, was more fundamental to the fall of Communism(tm) than RR or Thatcher...
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709
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2005-06-26, 17:57

709: Oh come on now, you're trying to tell me that

Brad: *WHACK*

709: ~~~~~
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Naderfan
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Join Date: May 2004
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2005-06-26, 18:02

I don't know if this counts, since he was never a "leader" in terms of holding an office, but I'd have to say Martin Luther King, Jr. He did so much for so many people and paid the ultimate price for it.
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julesstoop
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2005-06-26, 18:09

Maggie Torture?
And Helmut Kohl being accredited by Franz Josef for unifying Europe? (I thought the Maastricht and Amsterdam treaties were forged in the Netherlands and not just by the German Bundeskansler)

Strange thread this is indeed...
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709
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Join Date: May 2004
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2005-06-26, 18:22

Yeah, yeah, I've read The Satanic Verses as well.

Pony up.
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Banana
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Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2005-06-26, 18:25

After considering this question, I decided that a definition of leader was needed. Anyone can come up their own verison but for now I'm going to use-

A leadder is one who is able to get people to support his cause and create relationship with people even though they may never ever meet the leader face to face.

By that definition, Reagan get the votes. He wasn't called "the great communicator" for nothing even though his politics may have been questionable.

It can be argued that Pope John Paul II was better in that respect, but didn't get my vote as 1)he has too many people in the membership residing in unfree countries, 2) catholic hegemony in general are either sympathize or apathetic about communism/dictatorship/corrupt government annd while granting that he has spoke out against corruption and the likes, I didn't exactly see Fidel Castro and Pinncho (sp), and the likes kneling before him begging for forgiveness...

My .02
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pck
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Join Date: Mar 2005
 
2005-06-26, 18:26

Regarding european history Willy Brandt is my favorite. But since you're looking for a "world leader" Kofi Annan seems more appropriate.
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_Ω_
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2005-06-26, 18:33

Genghis Kahn.

He thought the world was free, so he took it.
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Banana
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2005-06-26, 18:35

Mind telling me why brandt and annan? Im igornant of european politics and would like to learn a bit.
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709
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2005-06-26, 18:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega
Genghis Kahn.

He thought the world was free, so he took it.
Wrong time period there Omega.
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johnq
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2005-06-26, 18:44

Steve Jobs.
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Amadeus
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2005-06-26, 18:52

I would also go for President Ronald Reagan for bringing down Communism. May shuttered at the idea of going after the USSR. But he was resolute toward his goal.
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staph
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2005-06-26, 18:57

Tito.

He managed to stay outside of the Soviet bloc, whilst keeping Yugoslavia in one peaceful and socially egalitarian piece. That's no mean feat, as history showed.

-S
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johnq
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2005-06-26, 19:00

I think Levi's, Miami Vice and Michael Jackson (i.e., that 1980's lust for Western consumerism) had a lot to do with "bringing down communism", but Reagan always gets credit Ah well. <- that's not bickering btw ...

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." - Albert Einstein
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psmith2.0
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2005-06-26, 19:18

I know people will grumble and curse my name, but I have to go with the current U.S. president (yeah, yeah, I said it...deal with it)

I know he's not hated as much as one would be led to believe. And, like Nixon and some others, I believe history will judge him kinder than the shake he's currently getting from many.

Things often work out that way...time, distance and perspective allow for a "bigger picture" view. I believe that in 20, 30 and certainly 50 years, he'll be looked at in a much different way, like it or not.

No, he's not perfect and I don't agree with everything he's done (or does). But I think he's a good man trying to do right and I've never bought into the clichés, nonsense and bullcrap spouted by his most vocal detractors.

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Moogs
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2005-06-26, 19:27

I don't know we've had a truly great all-around l leader since the days of Churchill.

I might suggest Harry Truman, for his involvement and support of the Marshall plan and the rebuilding of Europe, as well as being one of the first to speak about civil rights issues (even if in a Luke-warm fashion), is a decent candidate. I also believe (though many don't) that the decision to end the war in the way he did had a net result of saving lives on both sides of the war.

You could also say Kennedy deserves a look because of his stance on civil rights, the space program and in general his ability to lead (which you can chalk up to charisma and other factors).

...into the light of a dark black night.

Last edited by Moogs : 2005-06-26 at 19:28.
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_Ω_
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2005-06-26, 19:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709
Wrong time period there Omega.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bad Brad
And please, no knocking of other people's opinions.
And what is time, but a human measure....






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_Ω_
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2005-06-26, 19:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnq
I think Levi's, Miami Vice and Michael Jackson
I think you forgot "The Hoff"!!

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709
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2005-06-26, 19:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnipotent Omega
And what is time, but a human measure....

Hey now, I didn't make the rules.
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murbot
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2005-06-26, 19:47

Jarome Iginla.
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johnq
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2005-06-26, 20:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega
I think you forgot "The Hoff"!!


glad someone knows what I mean
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sunrain
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2005-06-26, 20:00

I agree with Harry Truman. His leadership in the aftermath of WWII was pivotal.
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_Ω_
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2005-06-26, 20:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709
Hey now, I didn't make the rules.
Touché

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torifile
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2005-06-26, 20:07

Very tough one. In the past 50 years, eh? I've got to go with MLK.

I've been reading Blood Done Sign My Name and I never realized how much of a Leader he actually was until this book. Strategic, planful and cunning. And he gave his life for his cause. I think JFK and RFK are the only others in contention who've done the same.

Interesting thread, Franz. Good idea. (And props to everyone keeping it civil.... so far)

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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