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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2010-01-10, 14:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
V doesn't mean a thing.
It could mean anything, then. It could mean that a victorious vegetarian viking is vexed. But I say it means Viggen.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2010-01-10, 16:17

Speaking of Cadillac...ATS? Converj? Something else?

I can't wait for either car. But I'm not exactly sure what place the Converj is suppose to hold in the line-up? If it's just "the ER-EV Cadillac," couldn't they just make an ATS-E or something? It seems like they would go for a unique body style, too, since they already have the CTS coupe. To me, the name suggests either one of those "four-door coupes" that are all the rage these days (the convergence of a coupe and sedan) or a hard-top convertible (the convergence of a coupe and a convertible) but the concept was neither. So I guess we'll see.

Of course, the name will probably change to something like "VRJ" by the time it's released (Voltec Racing Jalopy?), so what "Converj" suggests may well be irrelevant. In any case, I hope it stays super-edgy and low-slung and sporty, something that would take the place of the XLR. A Z Series to the CTS coupe's 6 Series.

Either that, or a fastback or shooting brake, something like an electric Scirocco. Ooh.

Am I the only one who's annoyed that the automotive press got to see the ATS (or a styling example, anyway) six months ago and we aren't even going to see it at NAIAS (probably)? Cadillac is sort of taking their time with their turnaround, no? I mean, I know GM has been having financial troubles, but they've delayed the ATS, et al so many times. By the time the ATS and XTS hit (2012?), we'll need a new (or at least mid-cycle-refreshed) CTS to accompany them! Hopefully, that's the plan.

Still not a fan of the XTS moniker. In alphanumeric parlance, X = crossover/SUV. Sure, there was the XLR, but that's obviously a sort of pun ("accelerate"), as well as its own...thing. If it's supposed to stand for "Extended Touring Sedan," why not "ETS"? Makes sense, as the successor to the DTS, and then you'd have a nice ATS/CTS/ETS thing going.

But then again, Cadillac's whole nomenclature is a mess. You have the Catera Touring Sedan...coupe. And you still have the Escalade, which doesn't fit in at all (but of course they'll never change it). I get that "CTS coupe" has more name recognition than "CTC" would, but I still find it irksome

They're miles ahead of Lincoln, though, who went through four different alphanumeric schemes in about as many years. And "CTS" still rolls off the tongue far easier than "MKZ." What were they thinking?

And yes, I know all my posts turn into rants about naming. But if you're going to try and have a cohesive naming scheme, you have to be cohesive, you have to do it right. MKT? WTF is that shit?

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Iago
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hmm?
 
2010-01-10, 16:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
Quag, do you know what the V (in CTS-V, &c.) stands for?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
V doesn't mean a thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
It could mean anything, then.
Larry David: So, this is the GTS model...
Customer: What does GTS stand for?
Larry David: Uh... Guaranteed Tremendous Safety...
Customer: Oh. So what does the GT model stand for? Just Guaranteed Tremendous?
Larry David: Uh... yes...

I'm Joseph Fritzl, and no windows was my idea.
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-01-10, 17:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
Speaking of Cadillac...ATS? Converj? Something else?
A lot of people are saying its fake. Notice the passenger rear wheel or lack there of.....
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2010-01-10, 17:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
A lot of people are saying its fake. Notice the passenger rear wheel or lack there of.....
Yeah, I noticed that after I posted it. Oh well. It doesn't change anything, about me wanting to see the ATS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iago View Post
Larry David: So, this is the GTS model...
Customer: What does GTS stand for?
Larry David: Uh... Guaranteed Tremendous Safety...
Customer: Oh. So what does the GT model stand for? Just Guaranteed Tremendous?
Larry David: Uh... yes...


Some people hate the alphanumeric nomenclature that it seems like every luxury automaker is adopting (except, notably, Buick and Mercury, both of which are intended to be softer antecedents to the more hard-edged Cadillac and Lincoln). I'll be honest -- I don't. In fact, I think "aspirational" car names are kind of silly. Regal? LeSabre? Lucerne? I'm not trying to hate on just Buick here, but there's nothing "regal" about a low-end Buick. Or even a high-end one, for that matter.

I prefer alphanumeric nomenclature...when it makes sense. BMW and M-B have been at it the longest, and have the benefit of owning individual numbers (BMW) or letters (M-B). Everybody else needs to use multiple letters (ES), multiple numbers (9-5), or a combination (A4), but that's okay -- probably a good thing, because it helps each "scheme" be ownable. (In other words, when you hear of a sedan labeled [something]TS, you know it's a Cadillac, without even hearing the make.)

The important thing is that designations A) are consistent, B) are identified with the brand and C) give a clear sense of progression, from lowest-end to highest. BMW, Audi, and Saab are the best at this, as they have the benefit of a progression of numerals paired with, in the case of Audi and Saab, universally reconizable prefixes ("A" and "9-", of course). M-B requires you to know their class designations but it's mostly alphabetical, from worst to best (as is Cadillac).

But then there's Lexus. Quick, arrange these Lexus models in order from lowest-end to highest: ES, GS, HS, IS, LS. That's not it, though that's the alphabetical arrangement. Only people who "know" Lexus are going to get the hierarchy, but everybody knows a 7 Series is better than a 3 Series. Thus, Lexus fails at the third requirement. Acura does too. (They have other problems, which I won't get into here. No, their new corporate grille isn't what I meant ).

Lincoln fails at everything. First of all, they are just now arriving at a scheme that is consistent, and still not completely (Navigator and Town Car still exist). They've used, again, four different schemes in recent memory, and their first attempt at an alphanumeric name was the short-lived Lincoln LS. Yes, they straight-up ripped the name of the flagship Lexus. So they fail at the second requirement, because nobody ever hears "LS" and thinks "Lincoln." After "LS," they had "Mark [something]," which I would have stayed with...and then "MK[something]," pronounced "Mark something," and then "MK[something]," pronounced "Emm-Kay-something." Just rolls off the tongue, doesn't t?

Anyway, I'll shut up now. In short, Japanese automakers are good at lots of things but alphanumeric designations aren't one of them, and Lincoln fails at life. That is all.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-01-10, 22:27

Woot! Converj has been green lighted.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...00119990/1115#
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2010-01-10, 23:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
Woot! Converj has been green lighted.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...00119990/1115#
I thought it was greenlighted before? Maybe that was just a rumor.

"After 2012," though...I hope he means after the 2012 model year (which, to be fair, is already looking sort of crowded for Cadillac...XTS, maybe ATS?), and not after the year 2012. I'd like to see in released no later than calendar year 2012 (2013 MY).

And I get what he says, about needing to "slot it into" the line-up. It's like what I was just saying -- it'll have to be something unique, not just an electric CTS coupe.

Anyway, NAIAS starts in just a few hours...embargoes might expire at midnight on Monday, so about an hour from now? Exciting. Chrysler has a whole lotta nothin' -- people on Jalopnik are freaking out over all the special editions of dated models, but I'm like...it's going to take time to turn them around. Quick, cheap cash-ins on old models are, well, quick and cheap cash-ins. I hope it keeps them afloat long enough for us to see some new models.

(I would be remiss to not mention that Chrysler Group actually has improved many of their models for 2010, making many options standard and redesigning their often lackluster interiors.)

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who cares to see Chrysler turn around. It's not out of any sort of loyalty, I'd just like, y'know, a thriving American auto industry. And I think it'd be nice to see Chrysler be an actual luxury marque, instead of just a sort-of-upmarket Dodge.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-01-10, 23:22

Yep I know of two vehicles being released tonight. A Ford and a GMC concept.

And Converj was a go as long as GM got the green funds( the same ones that Ford got forgot the real name of the program). Which they apparently did so it is a go.

giggity
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2010-01-10, 23:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
Yep I know of two vehicles being released tonight. A Ford and a GMC concept.

And Converj was a go as long as GM got the green funds( the same ones that Ford got forgot the real name of the program). Which they apparently did so it is a go.
I can only assume that the GMC concept is going to be the GMC Granite aka Urban Utility Concept, which seems a little weird. A small MPV by GMC? But I guess if GMC is going to be one of GM's "core brands" (bad idea) they're going to have to expand (bad idea) beyond their "professional grade" market (bad idea), right?

In other news, Cadillac has a new ad agency...that has never worked with an automaker before. This should be different! I actually liked Cadillac's ads; it was Buick's advertising (or lack thereof?) that needed more work...that "makeover" ad was so cheesy. I think they should bring back Cadillac's old "Standard of the World" tagline. I mean, it's not true, but maybe it could be, maybe. There's no reason it couldn't, if GM tried. I actually really liked "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit," particularly its multiple typeface wordmark, but I can't help but think that it would be a better fit for Chevy, replacing "American Revolution." There's hopefully reasons to buy a Cadillac besides just "it's American," but Chevy...well, they need that help a bit more, I think.

Oh, and Chevrolet should officially change its name to Chevy. Nobody says "Chevrolet" any more, ever.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-01-11, 00:03

GMC Granite Concept:



http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...7/#post1945453
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2010-01-11, 00:07

I knew the Ford model would be the Focus! Couldn't be anything else, really, since Ford replaced basically every other car they sold last year. (Well, I guess it could have been the new unibody Explorer. Ugh.)

The new Focus is nice.

And, yup, the GMC concept is the Granite -- no surprise there. I'm normally a fan of boxy, polarizing designs...but that's for their simplicity, something the Granite...lacks. It also just seems totally off-brand and very..."old GM." Do they have to make rebadges of everything? But it's just a concept, for now, and I have a hunch it'll stay that way.

At the stroke of midnight, Autoblog became plastered with ads for the CR-Z. The CRX replacement I always wanted...and it's a hybrid! I can't wait.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-01-11, 00:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post

And, yup, the GMC concept is the Granite -- no surprise there. I'm normally a fan of boxy, polarizing designs...but that's for their simplicity, something the Granite...lacks. It also just seems totally off-brand and very..."old GM." Do they have to make rebadges of everything? But it's just a concept, for now, and I have a hunch it'll stay that way.
How is it a rebadge? If it goes into production it rides on Gamma II and I don't think it looks like the Aveo at all. Orlando is Delta II.

giggity
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2010-01-11, 00:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
How is it a rebadge? If it goes into production it rides on Gamma II and I don't think it looks like the Aveo at all. Orlando is Delta II.
Autoblog says that GM hasn't divulged the platform but that they think it will "share many parts" with Delta II. The Orlando is five inches shorter, which could make it unique, but a GMC the size of a Honda Fit? I love small cars and I have a hard time buying that. It doesn't fit the brand at all. It would be like, well, a GMC subcompact.

Next up, a RAM city car based on the Fiat 500.

I'm sorry Quag, but I just don't see how anybody can think it's a good idea. Even GM Authority (who also thinks it will be based on Delta II) are unimpressed. GM needs to make its brands more distinct, not muddle the waters further by having GMC make a car (GM Authority's label, not mine). GM should be reducing nameplates; they certainly shouldn't be adding to the mess by having four general-purpose brands.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-01-11, 00:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
Autoblog says that GM hasn't divulged the platform but that they think it will "share many parts" with Delta II. The Orlando is five inches shorter, which could make it unique, but a GMC the size of a Honda Fit? I love small cars and I have a hard time buying that. It doesn't fit the brand at all. It would be like, well, a GMC subcompact.

Next up, a RAM city car based on the Fiat 500.

I'm sorry Quag, but I just don't see how anybody can think it's a good idea. Even GM Authority (who also thinks it will be based on Delta II) are unimpressed. GM needs to make its brands more distinct, not muddle the waters further by having GMC make a car (GM Authority's label, not mine). GM should be reducing nameplates; they certainly shouldn't be adding to the mess by having four general-purpose brands.
I have been told it would be on Gamma II and the person's sources have been quite accurate. Dig around GMI and look up our exclusives. Makes sense as its length is around the Aveo's I believe( by visual they seem to be roughly the same size). Nothing is concrete as this is just a concept right now with no plans for production yet.

Even I don't get it, but if it does go into production and sells, what do we know? Everyone thinks this is Delta II because they automatically think it is a rebadge of the Orlando.

giggity
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2010-01-11, 00:29

In any case, I don't know why we're talking about it instead of the new Focus, which is unquestionably a more important car.



HAWT.



Cue Saturn-ad-style "THAT is a Focus?!?"



That's an 8" screen. In a Focus.

This is such a huge step up for Ford and I think it will be a huge success, globally. I think they will be able to compete very well with compacts here in the States, for the first time in a long time. I'm not really a fan but I'm still happy for them, they have momentum.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-01-11, 00:47

What is even more ground breaking is that the US gets it first! Take that Europeans!
  quote
joveblue
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne
 
2010-01-11, 02:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by joveblue View Post
That's odd, that's the Melbourne skyline. I wonder why it's in Melbourne (or is that a photoshop job?). We don't even have Chevrolet's here, much less left-hand drives... Although it might end up here rebadged as a Holden. We don't even have a GM holden production plant here.
So apparently the Aveo was designed in the GM Holden design centre in Melbourne. It won't be produced here however, it'll be produced by GM Daewoo in Korea, and sold here as a Holden Barina. Good to know we're producing some good designs here.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2010-01-11, 03:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by joveblue View Post
So apparently the Aveo was designed in the GM Holden design centre in Melbourne. It won't be produced here however, it'll be produced by GM Daewoo in Korea, and sold here as a Holden Barina. Good to know we're producing some good designs here.
I'm skeptical. The current Aveo, also by GM Daewoo, is arguably the single worst vehicle you can buy in the States. It is one of a very select group of cars -- the current Chrysler Sebring being another -- that has absolutely no redeeming features. I honestly have no idea why anyone would purchase one; it's not even particularly inexpensive. I'll stop now, for fear of offending an Aveo (or Sebring) owner.

I'm sure you're a nice person, theoretical Aveo/Sebring owner! Please don't take it personally.

And please don't be ezkcdude.

Now. That Melbourne Aveo certainly looks...more acceptable. The single worst feature is the oversized grille, and that's likely an concept-only tweak; the production vehicle will actually be an improvement in that regard. But I'm still skeptical. (The last Aveo was styled by Pininfarina, but that didn't help it.) I will say that, at this point, it looks like it wears the lines of the Beat/Spark more successfully. (See? Positive!)

But you don't understand. I've been subjected to the Aveo for years, not just as a Chevy, but as a Pontiac too. (An old guy on my street has one. A blue one, with a bra on it -- isn't that weird?) I'm being as positive as the emotional scarring allows.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
joveblue
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne
 
2010-01-11, 06:30

Apparently the concept will "closely mirror the look of the production car once you strip away its hot hatch-inspired 19-inch wheels and body adornments".

Hopefully it actually has something to offer this time around. Otherwise GM might as well give up.
  quote
Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2010-01-11, 06:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
V doesn't mean a thing.
V is the seating position of anybody who tries to wedge himself in the back of the coupe.

(THIS IS A JOKE: Upon cursory glance there's about as much room in the CTS-V back seats as any other coupe.)
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-01-11, 08:18

Bah! Equinox got cheated! No way the Transit Connect is more truck of the year worthy then the new Equinox! I demand a recount!

And Fusion won too. Clean sweep for Ford.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...-honors-87869/

giggity
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2010-01-11, 09:10

I don't know. I can see why they thought the Transit Connect was more significant, being sort of a new genre for the US and all.

Ford has been on a roll lately...like I said, momentum.

The "Chrysler Delta" looks better than I thought it would -- but then again, I've always liked the look of the Lancia Delta. It seems to fit right in with Chrysler's sleek concept car tradition -- now, will it change their totally un-sleek production car tradition? If it hits next year as a 2012, I could see it being a hit -- the first New New Chrysler (unless you count the conspicuously absent 2011 300). Chrysler just needs to turn around fast -- people are already tiring of the special edition game they're playing.

People on Autoblog aren't getting it...they're thinking it's, like, the new Pacifica? It's like, dude, it's the replacement for the PT. Viewed in that light, it's a huge step up, and really gets Chrysler closer to being an actual luxury marque -- where they need to be. They have Dodge for the rest.

Lancia does have the worst web site of any "major" auto maker, though.

Last edited by Robo : 2010-01-11 at 09:27.
  quote
Miko
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2010-01-11, 09:55

This pretty convincing tv spot called suicide just went viral. Well done, but you can tell that it is not of Audi's standard or quality with the use of music and close, but wrong typeface. Audi released a statement calling it fake and is attempting to have it removed. Fake or not it's creating a buzz.

http://www.adverblog.com/archives/004152.htm
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-01-11, 10:15



The Granite sure is small.

Here is Orlando Concept for comparison.


giggity

Last edited by Quagmire : 2010-01-11 at 11:37.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2010-01-11, 10:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post


The Granite sure is small.
It's so teensy, your image isn't showing up!

It's very close to the size of the Honda Fit, from what I gather -- just a bit wider. Nobody gets it. They won't make it. It was a waste of time and money designing the concept. But hey, go GM!

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2010-01-11, 11:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko View Post
This pretty convincing tv spot called suicide just went viral. Well done, but you can tell that it is not of Audi's standard or quality with the use of music and close, but wrong typeface. Audi released a statement calling it fake and is attempting to have it removed. Fake or not it's creating a buzz.

http://www.adverblog.com/archives/004152.htm
I wouldn't want that kind of buzz and potential liability. What happens when someone tries that for real (possibly with a non-TDI Audi) and then dies?
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-01-11, 11:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
It's so teensy, your image isn't showing up!

It's very close to the size of the Honda Fit, from what I gather -- just a bit wider. Nobody gets it. They won't make it. It was a waste of time and money designing the concept. But hey, go GM!
Fixed.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2010-01-11, 11:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
I wouldn't want that kind of buzz and potential liability. What happens when someone tries that for real (possibly with a non-TDI Audi) and then dies?
Hence its viral status. Audi can say that it was a rejected ad that was never meant to be seen...wink wink, nudge nudge.

I'm still digging the Delta. A Chrysler. Wow.
  quote
Miko
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2010-01-11, 12:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
I wouldn't want that kind of buzz and potential liability. What happens when someone tries that for real (possibly with a non-TDI Audi) and then dies?
To quote one of the greatest athletes that never was, Ivan Drago. "If he dies, he dies".
  quote
Kickaha
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2010-01-11, 12:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko View Post
To quote one of the greatest athletes that never was, Ivan Drago. "If he dies, he dies".
Evolution FTW!
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