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drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-09-26, 22:25

All of this big talk about new cars and there AREN'T ANY NEW CARS OUT THERE.

The parking lot at our local Honda dealership is PLUMB EMPTY.

It's like The Walking Dead over there.

Their service level has plummeted.

It's ugly out there.

We are living in the end times!!!4



...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2021-09-26, 23:04

It’s just the turn over for new models. Normally you wouldn’t notice it because there would be 2021 models still available. With the shortages and string demand, auto makers likely ramped down 2021 model year vehicles early to save enough parts for the model year units. Anything that comes in likely is from a costumer order and doesn’t sit on the lot to be seen.
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Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-10-01, 19:29

Haven't been around for a few days (Who is this psmith person?)

But I thought this was a really interesting article.

Makes one wonder if Apple understood this and figured that its in-house Silicon investments meant that it could move much more rapidly against the established automakers. And in so doing, win the sector.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2021-10-01, 23:51

Apple isn't going to win in the car sector, maybe take a small slice of the luxury car market, but the entire market? An Apple car will likely be in the $80-100k+ range, no chance.
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drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-10-02, 00:10

One of the things that will always be there, regardless of the technology, is the thin veneer between automobile and motorized sled. Take off a few parts during a service and you're suddenly seeing the actual inner workings and it can be TERRIFYING.

This week the shiny button on my shifter fell out.

It just fell out.

There was still a big gob of what was left of the button trapped in the shifter lever, so I was able to use the car for a few days prior to making the repair.

Once I found out that the cool swoopy shifter was just an enclosure for a metal pipe, well.....





...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2021-10-02, 08:50

Vehicles are only scary to the ignorant, as with most things. Without all the computers, plastic/leather/wood and whatever gimmicks the manufacturer slap on them to justify whatever they are charging for them, vehicles are generally simple mechanical devices. There’s a reason a new car used to only cost a few thousand dollars vs the nonsense prices they ask for now, we want all the add-ones. We must have the fancy covers over that metal pipe shifter that used to be exposed, the fancy 6-12 channel radios, motorized seats, soft touch dash, backup cameras, sensors for auto headlights/auto windshield wipers, wheel tracking headlights, the radar/LiDAR for parking sensors and emergency braking, blind spot monitors for people too lazy to shoulder check, lane assist for people too lazy to pay attention while driving, and the 1000+ sensor modules that tell everything to work properly, and to tell the mechanic what’s wrong with that over priced tin can.

Then the auto makers listen to wannabe race car drivers, who are mostly paid shills, that tell them how a vehicle should be, because they are the reviewers. Review are based on how the car is at ‘the track’, that 99% of people will never drive on. Somehow we are supposed to care what these people think of the vehicle? Sad part is all that nonsense is paid for by us when we buy a new car.

They are all just a frame with wheels, a power source (a gas or battery) and motor, with different covers. Aesthetics do matter, we all have different taste, but I always get a good laugh when I hear self proclaimed ‘car guys’ go on about how their vehicle is “more than something that gets you from a to b”, as if they have some mythical beast in their possession. Okay, rant over.

Last edited by PB PM : 2021-10-02 at 09:00.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2021-10-02, 09:07

I don’t like all those techie features. Just seems like a lot of stuff waiting to break. Gone my entire driving life without auto-this and digital-that. I can’t even stand electronic window roller upper-downer buttons. I’ve always preferred the manual hand cranking but I don’t even know if they exist anymore?

I think even the most basic, entry-level cars have automatic windows now?

I come from a family of major car/automotive nuts (cars and motorcycles…grandparents, stepdad, uncles and cousins, all their friends, etc.). Mechanics, tinkerers, customizers, builders, gearheads, grease monkeys, truck drivers, racers (drag, stock, motorcycle), etc.

Somehow that gene completely skipped over me and I’m kinda the black sheep “art & music”/computer guy (I’m sure other words have been used when I’m not around).

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-10-02 at 09:38.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2021-10-02, 09:31

I like some of the tech features, but some of it is there to protect lazy/stupid people who shouldn’t be driving in the first place. I love keyless operation/push button start, even though it is a possible security risk. I like ABS and traction control (the one time a year it comes on ). I like auto dimming mirrors, and power windows. Most of it is old tech now, and is very reliable, unless you get a European luxury car.

I don’t care much for all the blind spot and such, but now days you get good discounts from insurance companies for having a vehicle with those features. Older cars are easier to work on for the DIY types, no doubt about it. Of course older cars won’t last forever, so that will only last so long.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2021-10-02, 09:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I like some of the tech features, but some of it is there to protect lazy/stupid people who shouldn’t be driving in the first place.
I've long thought this. People won't even shop for groceries themselves anymore, so of course they expect their car to keep them in their lane and automatically brake for them because they insist on burying their heads in their phones while driving.

But one area I kinda see this is general navigation/getting around (especially in newer, unfamiliar areas). I know people - in their 20's or even early/mid-30's, not little kids - who truly don't know how to read/use a map. If it wasn't for the GPS in their car and/or iPhone, they'd probably never make it anywhere. I've tried to tell them "there may be a situation where your GPS isn't working or reliable...you might want to augment that with some old-school knowledge. Maybe keep an atlas or local map in your glovebox or trunk, just in case?"*

You can probably imagine how that goes over with tech-obsessed (and reliant) millennial/Gen-Z types...many have grown up not having to know/learn such "boomer" trappings/silliness. And the ones who are arrogant or cunt-ish in their dismissal are the ones I actively wish for their GPS to conk out in the middle of nowhere for about 7-22 hours. I'm not gonna lie.



*
Off-topic (click to toggle):
In the 1-2 months leading up to us moving to Orange County/SoCal in late 1993, I went to Barnes & Noble and bought an Orange County, CA map and studied it a bit (learned the major freeways, secondary highways, the major surface streets, which roads took us to/from the base, the ocean/beaches, the desert/Joshua Tree, which freeways led north to L.A. or south to San Diego, all the major exits off the 5 and 405. When we arrived in December 1993, we hit the ground running. Never once got lost or turned around. I knew where the 55 and 90 went. I knew that if I took the 57 south, where I'd wind up, that highway 133 would take us to Laguna Beach and back, that the PCH would do what its name said and takes us up and down the Pacific coast, what freeway got us to Hollywood and back home after a day of doing the tourist thing, the outlying counties (Riverside and San Bernardino) and their major routes in and out of Orange County area, etc. I've never been lost in a car, driving. Did the same thing when we moved to northern Virginia/metro DC in 1996. We never got lost or turned around there (which was quite a feat, as I came to learn). Did the same for New Orleans when I went down there 5-6 times to visit my friend throughout the summer of 2004. I never go into a new area/city blind...I always do a little front-end research/memorization/orienting beforehand, and I never rely solely on my phone or any in-car stuff to get me around.

Yeah, I know..."okay, boomer!" But this boomer (I'm not even one!) doesn't get lost, junior...

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-10-02 at 10:22.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2021-10-02, 10:32

As a early millennial (1985), I’d say that seems to be the case for many of my peers, when it comes to shopping and GPS etc. Then again there is something to be said about the greater efficiency of having stuff delivered, vs everyone going out on individual little errands.

I only use my GPS to find places I’ve never been before, saves driving around the block 6 times. I still look at the map, and find visual points of reference on street view before leaving so I don’t have to look at the GPS at all while driving, my car does not have built in navigation, so it’s on my iPhone. Then again my parents are boomers, and my father used to draw maps and put them up on his wall as a kid. I did that too, but not maps of real places. if I didn’t suck at writing I’m sure I could have been a great fantasy world author.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2021-10-02, 10:45

I use all the stuff too. My only point is a person shouldn’t rely solely on (fallible, prone-to-glitches) tech for basic things.

I once gave directions to my house and they spent more time having me give the number/spell the street name than me just telling them.

“It’s two turns at two obvious intersections in the span of two miles…you could already be here if you’d just listen to me. Push the gas pedal, turn left at the only two red lights you’ll encounter and you’ll see me in my driveway, two blocks from that second light. You’re looking at a three-minute drive, tops, Mr. Sulu.”

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-10-02 at 11:08.
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Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2021-10-02, 11:38

Alright everyone, let's get off Paul's lawn.
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Dave
Ninja Editor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
 
2021-10-02, 11:50

The lane departure warning in my car gives about 10x more false positives than actual warnings. I think it gets confused by unexpected or sloppy road patches. In any case, I just end up turning it (and the parking assistance) off half the time because the warning beeps mute the stereo and I’m usually trying to listen to an audiobook or podcast. I’ll leave it on when I’m on the highway, but I can’t remember the last time I didn’t notice the problem before the car did.

When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden... and the one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2021-10-02, 11:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
Alright everyone, let's get off Paul's lawn.
Yes, please!

I saw a cool looking mini-SUV yesterday (crossover?). Might’ve been a Hyundai? Looked compact and sporty and it had a cool metallic green color I’ve never seen on a car before.

Caught my eye in a way most modern cars don’t (I can’t tell most sedans, SUVs, etc. apart, not being a big car guy/follower). But this one jumped out at me. But I couldn’t see the badging on the back.
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Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2021-10-02, 12:06

I've had my Subaru Crosstrek for about a year now. The lane-keep assist and adaptive cruise control basically drove me all the way from here to Texas. The system's pretty good IMO.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2021-10-02, 12:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
The lane departure warning in my car gives about 10x more false positives than actual warnings. I think it gets confused by unexpected or sloppy road patches. In any case, I just end up turning it (and the parking assistance) off half the time because the warning beeps mute the stereo and I’m usually trying to listen to an audiobook or podcast. I’ll leave it on when I’m on the highway, but I can’t remember the last time I didn’t notice the problem before the car did.
My friend’s Subaru (very nice...I believe it's an Outback, with all the trimmings, very modern/high-tech and cool to see) has all that stuff. He wound up turning it off as well because it was just relentless. A little too eager to alert/warm constantly. My mom has a new Honda Passport(?) and it’s the same way. I drove it some the other day and if you even get near the painted lane marker it starts to chirp and flash, which, oddly enough, winds up being its own distraction and focus-breaker (hard not to take your eyes off the road to look down to the instrument panel to see what's going on).

For those who take driving seriously and are already focused on the road and not iDistracted, these features are kinda pointless and more of an aggravation/distraction themselves than not.

Those things are for Generation Smartphone because, despite all the (toothless and unenforceable) so-called "laws" around here to not be using your phone while driving, everyone still does it. And they’re never going to stop, I know this…that toothpaste is out of the tube (and all over the bathroom sink, mirror, walls, floor, out in the hallway, etc.). I see it every single day. We all do.

I know the car companies are just thinking “well, if they're gonna be texting, posting selfies, checking their Facebook or Tweeting while driving, the least we can do is make it safer by helping them maintain their lane and to stop when needed, since they're not fully paying attention.”



Okay...thanks? Let me know where to send the cookie.

Me? I take the opposite approach…if your car detects you screwing around with your phone - texting, selfies, on any of the TwitTokFaceGram apps, etc. - while you’re supposed to be driving, it does the rest of us a favor and automatically drives you into the nearest phone pole or tree, immediately taking you off the road. That's a "smart car". Not enough to kill you, of course (it'll slow itself down to 10-15mph before impact), but enough to maybe make you think twice about continuing the practice, once you get your car back from the shop (and dealing with all the insurance company hassle, premium increase, etc.).





It's bold, "gotta break a few eggs..." and outside-the-box thinking that brings about true progress and change, people.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-10-02 at 13:09.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2021-10-02, 12:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
I've had my Subaru Crosstrek for about a year now. The lane-keep assist and adaptive cruise control basically drove me all the way from here to Texas. The system's pretty good IMO.
I'm sure it works fine, I just don't see the need for it. If you are tired, don't drive. If you are too lazy to pay attention, don't drive. That works even better.
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tomoe
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
 
2021-10-02, 12:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
I've had my Subaru Crosstrek for about a year now. The lane-keep assist and adaptive cruise control basically drove me all the way from here to Texas. The system's pretty good IMO.
Similar story here, but with a Toyota RAV4. Never going back to a car without lane keep assist and ACC. So great for long road trips.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2021-10-02, 13:23

I can see those features being handy/useful for long, open-road (interstate or divided highway) driving at 55mph+. Absolutely. A consistent speed, varying by only 5mph or so, cars spread apart nice distances, 2-4 lanes each direction, no intersections/stops, etc. Got no issue with the tech in those specific scenarios. Takes some of the tedium of keeping your foot at the right place, 40-60 miles at a time when no other cars are close by. I've driven to/from Kansas City several times in the past decade-plus, and once I'm out of the major metro areas (Nashville, St. Louis, KC, etc.), I'm happy to put it on cruise to maintain a nice, consistent highway speed. And if I had a car with the lane stuff and adaptive cruise control, I'm sure I'd use it on those specific scenarios as well (but with my eyes/focus still fully in the mix, of course). But they'd be a nice backup.

But locally, on surface streets with traffic lights, stop signs, yield signs, intersections, roundabouts, 3-way stops, 4-way stops, pedestrians, commercial and residential zones bleeding into each other, lane changes, contruction zones, other vehicles close by or coming from other directions/angles, I want to be in full control and not relying on that stuff to keep me (and others) safe. Things just happen too fast in those close-quarters scenarios, IMO. No way tech is going to "see" and adapt/react as quickly, and sensibly, as I can (a rapid lane change, choosing a split-second veer or turn to avoid something that just happened in front of me, responding to an idiot lurching over or pulling out directly in front of me with only feet to spare, etc.). I'm going to handle that sort of stuff better than any computer could, IMO. Maybe not in a few decades, sure. But in 2021? Absolutely, hands down.

At 52, and 35+ years of driving (with no wrecks), I just trust myself more in previous paragraph scenarios. But I'd let Artoo take over a bit on four hours of I-70 between KC and St. Louis, sure.
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Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2021-10-02, 18:37

Yeah, the system's pretty useless for driving in-town, though the frontal collision avoidance is pretty great when someone in front of you jams on their breaks because a dog ran into the road or something. Same for rear auto braking when you're trying to back out of a spot in a crowded parking lot and some kid runs out of nowhere. It's nice having the car see that and stop on its own.

The car can see all angles at all times. I cannot.

Lane-keep and adaptive cruise control are only for highways though IMO.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2021-10-02, 18:53

I’ve had several friends and relatives get new cars in the past 1-2 years, so I’ve been pretty amazed/impressed at all the modern tech and features put into modern cars.

I had no idea.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2021-10-02, 19:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
Yeah, the system's pretty useless for driving in-town, though the frontal collision avoidance is pretty great when someone in front of you jams on their breaks because a dog ran into the road or something. Same for rear auto braking when you're trying to back out of a spot in a crowded parking lot and some kid runs out of nowhere. It's nice having the car see that and stop on its own.

The car can see all angles at all times. I cannot.

Lane-keep and adaptive cruise control are only for highways though IMO.
No doubt that rear cross traffic/pedestrian alert is great to have. Should be mandatory, not just an add-on for higher level trims. I cannot count how many times I've been stuck between two lifted pickup trucks in a parking lot unable to see anything at all.
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drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-10-02, 19:32

In a decade this tech will be incredibly precise.

"Golden ages are born into times of chaos, their lustre outlasting memories of the turmoil"
- Capt. Kingston Drew

...
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2021-10-02, 20:21

Parking lots probably benefit the most from some of these cameras and sensors because something about a parking lot seems to turn a huge chunk of the population into raging oblivitards. Those cameras and other tech come in real handy at times.
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
 
2021-10-04, 11:40

We got a new car today. Nothing exciting, but replaced our Nissan Rogue with a Toyota RAV4. They were *very* short of vehicles so had to get white, as it was all they had available.

Very excited to have CarPlay instead of the stupid vent-mounted thingy...
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2021-10-04, 13:08

My stepmom just got a white RAV4 about 3-4 weeks ago. She loves it. It is nice. For some reason, I know about six people who've gotten a new car since August.
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Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-10-04, 14:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
My stepmom just got a white RAV4 about 3-4 weeks ago. She loves it. It is nice. For some reason, I know about six people who've gotten a new car since August.
Probably due to the insane used car market right now.

I sold my 2017 Camaro SS for $37,000 to Carmax. I got it back in 2017 for $41,000. Back in November 2020, it was only worth $23,000 at that point. I hated to sell it, but only $1000 a year of ownership of a car that typically depreciates like a rock was too good to pass to get a more practical vehicle that was just as fast as the Camaro and completely silent.

giggity
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-10-04, 14:18

Likely could get more soon given they are killing the Camaro again.

Really though, that is a great selling price.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2021-10-04, 14:18

Yeah used cars are crazy. A used 2018 RAV4 Hybrid XLE with 100k miles is selling for $1000 less than a new 2021 model, if you can get one.
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Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-10-04, 17:55

A used Tesla Model Y is going for $10K over what a new one would cost......

https://www.carvana.com/vehicle/2015923
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