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16 and 14 Inch MacBoob Pro
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-04-29, 11:21

That's why I've been saying that for years. Thin is thin, and, for most of us, they've sold nothing "bulky" or "ungainly" for well over a decade. But it was never enough, was it? For many years, that seemed to be the biggest thing they'd crow about - "It's 7% thinner than the previous model...", etc. - upon the introduction of a new notebook (or phone, iPad, etc.). There is a point where it can work against you. I think they bumped up against that some time ago, on a few products.

And, no...I don't want silly, 1990's-era 1.78" thick notebooks. Nobody does. But when the pursuit of Almighty Thin has impacts on performance, cooling, components, etc., that's when you might want to pull it back a little.

The nice thing about this M1 (and beyond) is that they might have their cake and eat it too...thin as they'd like, but the performance and thermal/battery concerns are all addressed and maybe there's no big trade-off as before.

I'm not anti-thin at all. But there's a point where it makes no sense to go beyond if if means the overall machine is a less-than experience. Nobody's going to marvel at fractions of a millimeter lost if their machine is always throttling down and their scrotum is stir-frying.

I always got a perverse kick during the keynotes or an event when some Apple exec breathlessly touted the even-thinner, smaller body that was already plenty thin/small enough, and it was met with dead silence. That's a polite crowd's way of saying "we don't really give a shit, quit obsessing on that metric; it's not cute anymore. The MacBook Air has been around for quite some time, and it was already plenty thin the day Steve pulled it out of that envelope. Relax."
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-04-29, 11:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Nobody's going to marvel at fractions of a millimeter if their scrotum is stir-frying.


I love your little anecdotes!
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2021-04-29, 13:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I remember them introducing that wedge-shaped battery that filled up all that dead, unused space in a MacBook Air(?) a few years back (or was it a MacBook Pro?). I thought that was pretty cool.
The 2015 MacBook had a “terraced” battery.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-04-29, 14:20

I forgot all about that Mac!
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-04-29, 14:20

Empty space is a waste of space.

Apple's modern laptops are about as densely packed as a computer can get.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-04-29, 16:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Another fun fact: About once a month or so we'll get some old codger (or even a graphic design firm) dragging in a Power Mac G4 looking to keep it up and running. If these folks had their way, there would absolutely be SCSI ports on new Macs.
This triggered a funny(?) memory...

Off-topic (click to toggle):
Way back in the early 2000's, I'd just moved back to Chattanooga from all my years in SoCal. This would've been late 2002 and 2003, so I had an iMac G4. iMovie had been out for a few years, iPhoto had come out at the start of 2002 (along with the G4 iMac), OS X was at Jaguar or Panther, I believe (starting to get dialed-in/legit for day-to-day use, for me anyway).

Anyway, I was heavily into all this stuff at the time and having come back to here from wild, swinging and hip California, I was eager to find some like-minded Mac buddies meet, talk shop, share tips/info, etc. (the kinds of buddies I had in San Diego, basically). I poked around and eventually found a Chattanooga Mac User Group.

I attended 4-5 meetups, where I was the youngest in attendance by approximately 147 years. So there I was, in my early 30's, full of fire and enthusiasm for this new era of Apple and Macs (OS X, the iLife stuff, the iMacs, iBooks, etc.). And I was surrounded by these crabby old dust-pooters and wanted nothing to do with anything past about 1992, as it turned out. They were like this little motorcycle club of stuck-in-their-ways hardcases who loved to hold forth at these gatherings, pointing out how OS X was a gimmick and going to fail, that it wasn't a serious operating system ("sissified", even), and on and on (I can only imagine the diaper-filling that must've commenced a few years later when Apple announced the switch to Intel).

To have been a fly on the wall at the 3pm buffet at that bit of news...

Anyway, after giving it all a try for a few months - and hating it more with each one - I realized "I don't need anyone to validate my interest in this stuff, especially not this goofy bunch of know-nothing shitheads". They only wanted to talk about - you guessed it - SCSI, ADB keyboards and mice (USB was apparently a passing trend as well).

We'd sit there for two hours, talking about nothing interesting, current or relevant. None of them were on OS X, no interest/desire to be, etc. But when talk of serial ports or Desk Accessories (anything pre-OS X) flared up, it was like someone threw a stack of Juggs magazines in the room.

Thinking back on it, not one of those mummies was right about ANYTHING. I've never seen so many people be so wrong about everything in one location. It bordered on the paranormal, how much they didn't actually know. About anything.

You should've heard the things they said about the G3 (jellybean) iMacs. It's probably considered a hate crime in some states. Good grief.

I never went back after that last meeting and I've never sought another such group out again. I just found online places (the old joint, which led to here, plus a few earlier ones like iMac2Day.com and others.

But I think that was the first time I ever saw a bunch of people, about 5-6 of these crusty old bastards, being actively hostile and agitated over tech (and advancements, new things, etc. related). They seemed to take the iEra as a personal affront, and woe is me the one time I brought up iPhoto.

"What's wrong with a goddamn shoebox? Not the right color?" <--actual quote, to give you an idea of the kindness and support I was surrounded by.

It was less a MUG than a gathering of hateful old twizzledicks, hated by their grandchildren (and me), who bought a Mac in 1984-1985, and refused to progress beyond everything they learned in those first 2-3 years. And probably looked at USB-accepting twerps like me as a threat/intrusion to their way of life.

That's been nearly 20 years ago. Before they all finally keeled over, I can only assume they spent a few more years being wrong about a dozen other Mac/Apple-related things while annoying the hell out of everyone around them.


Hearing you talk about old codgers and SCSI just brought all that roaring back.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-04-29, 16:41

Yup. We had one of those MUGs here in Boise. They met at CompUSA in a cold room and whined about, you guessed it, SCSI and the like. 20-something years ago in the Performa days, and these guys spent the monthly meet-up bothering over networking flim-flam and serial this-and-that. The newbies that were trying to get answers (like me) had no idea we were walking into such a vomit-filled crank-hole!

Later on, after I started working at MacLife and right as CompUSA was going under, one of these bozos wandered into the shop to sell the Boise Mac Users Group as the god-send of power-users that our store needed in order to be relevant. If only we would offer all of their members 15% (!!!) off all of their purchases, they would gather in our shop, once per month, for FREE! (i.e. they wanted a rent-free meeting place), and all we had to do was provide coffee and soda, a free room, and a steep discount to all 7 of them!

The owner literally told them to "get out and go pound sand!"

We ain't got no use for SCSI!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-04-29, 16:50

I'm kinda curious if such a thing still exists here in town, and, surely, it's a bit further along. Only difference is, my interest/enthusiasm has waned, so I'm not sure I'd enjoy it like I might've 10-15 years ago.

Oh well, time does march on.

But there were some funny moments back then. It seemed like the Mac-using world was divided into two camps...the pre-1998/iEra crowd, and the post. I saw it many, many times back in those days. Even the one MWSF Expo I attended (2000, the unveiling of OS X and the big blue gel "X" banners up everywhere), was a real eye-opener. I saw grown men lamenting "the end of an era" and being a bunch of drama babies and I just could never get my head around that.

It's still a Mac. It sounds like it's even going to be a better one. Sounds like some interesting, cool stuff.

I remember attending a seminar on icon design put on by the guys from iconfactory.com. They didn't know what to talk about, with the new OS X icon style having just been unveiled the day before. They weren't quite sure where things were headed, how they factored in and instead of it being cool "how to" demos/drawing (those old school bit-map icons, pre-OS X) we were treated to this Robert Langdon-style seminar/lecture on symbols and communication.

"Guys, I don't give a shit what this meant in France in the 1600's...do something cool in Photoshop already!"

I nearly lapsed into a coma.*

Yeah, if some people had it their way, OS X, iMacs, iPods, iMovie and all the rest probably never would've existed. We'd be installing applications via multiple floppies, fiddling with SCSI ID numbers, shutting down before connecting/disconnecting anything, etc.

No thanks.



*Once I OD'd on all the fruit-colored accessories and peripherals on the show floor, and visited every booth/exhibitor, for two days, I decided it was my one best shot to see San Francisco. So that's what I did for the next day-and-a-half. I never set foot back in Moscone. But did/saw everything a tourist/visitor to SF should: the wharf, the big orange bridge , Lombard Street, Chinatown, that white tower in that Dirty Harry movie, rode a cable car, ate some crazy food, played billiards in a funky venue late at night, drank beers I'd never heard of, etc. I had a better time that week, outside of the Expo, than inside the hall.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2021-04-29 at 17:05.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-04-29, 17:38

Those Guys™ are the reason I support Apple's steady march to remove the legacy garbage at every opportunity. Perhaps I support it because I don't want to get caught in that mindset, that the only way to do things is the way I've always done them. I want to be treated to new technology, and it doesn't bother me a bit that I don't put glossy 5" discs into a player any longer. That my phone talks to my computer and can sync with it without connecting anything doesn't bother me. That a decent pair of Bluetooth headphones is only $50, or that an external USB-C SSD is way better than a USB-A mechanical dinosaur. And I'm happy to drop that old crap off at the 2nd-hand store, knowing full well that I paid bank for it in the day.

In ten years, I don't want to be that old bastard who hauls in some 20-year old clunker aching for the "good-ol' days"! I want a panel of glass that sits nicely on my desk that I don't have to plug anything into, because it gets it's power from my own magnetic aura!

Bring on the new iMac and it's 2 ports, and bring on a 16" MacBoob Pro that charges from solar magic and has exactly zero freaking ports!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-04-29, 18:12

I'm sure we see it in our lifetime.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2021-04-30, 06:34

This sort of fear of change is oddly common in IT (you'd think tech folks would embrace the future).

With the Mac, I particularly saw it in the early days of OS X. For example, this article on the Dock is… toxic, for lack of a better word. Some of Siracusa's rants about the Finder also came close. There's a fine line between "it's bad because I have some legitimate concerns" and "it's bad because it's different".

(I think some decisions with the Dock are a little weird. I think I would like the symmetry of having both the menu bar at the top and the Dock at the bottom fill the entire width of the screen, rather than the Dock having this weird, wasted space at its edges. But in practice, most of Tog's usability concerns seem… overblown at best and absurd at worst.)
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drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-04-30, 07:20

GOOD POINT!!

Why can't I get SCSI working on my iMacPowerBook Pro?

Buncha Froot Loops.
...
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-04-30, 07:31

Those little switches, having to have each device in the chain be a different number, etc.

*shudder*

I remember what a slog every little task could be. At the time it was all we knew so it didn’t jump out as much. It’s just “how it was”. But glancing back, 25+ years later…it’s a miracle anything ever got done. That any deadlines were met. But they were.

We have it really good in 2021 (and have for quite some time).

You haven’t lived until you’ve gone a few rounds with SCSI Syquest drives. I used to have to drive an envelope of them to John Wayne airport on my way home once a month to make the last freight/shipping plane out for the printer in Arizona. And when they received them in AZ, there was no guarantee they’d not arrive “corrupted” in some goofy way and not even open. That happened a couple of times.

How I wasn’t completely grey, and on drugs, at 27 is beyond me.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-04-30, 07:45

I’d like a “war stories” thread of funny stories from resident old timers and all their 80’s/90’s Mac-using trials and tribulations. Would be some funny reading.

Pre- iEra/Jobs’ return, everything was a bit of a mess, broadband hadn’t really arrived, there were 18,000 Performa Macs at all kinds of stores, MacUser magazine actually had porn/1-900 ads in the back, if you didn’t reboot your Mac 2-5 times a day, something was wrong, Apple LaserWriter printers cost $929, Adobe Photoshop and illustrator came on about a dozen installation floppies, all software came in huge boxes (because they all had big manuals/books(!) that taught you how to use them), CompUSA and Circuit City reigned supreme, Macworld magazine was actually about 3/4” thick and had usable content in small type (took weeks to get through an issue), RAM cost a kidney or two, a chain of various weirdos headed up Apple, etc.

Good, funny times.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2021-04-30, 08:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
This sort of fear of change is oddly common in IT (you'd think tech folks would embrace the future).
They only fear that kind change because it means a shit ton of work on the hardware side (likely the fun part), and on the bad side, baby sitting all the idiots in the office till 12AM for months afterwards because they don’t know how to print invoices and spreadsheets anymore. Not to mention that most companies will never give them the budget to upgrade properly, which means it’s truly a nightmare that a normal desktop user cannot even imagine. I know this because my cousin has worked in IT for 20+ years.

Quote:
With the Mac, I particularly saw it in the early days of OS X. For example, this article on the Dock is… toxic, for lack of a better word. Some of Siracusa's rants about the Finder also came close. There's a fine line between "it's bad because I have some legitimate concerns" and "it's bad because it's different".
What, how dare you think the dock is better than the old Launcher! In some ways it isn’t, but let’s not go there.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-04-30, 09:07

Yeah. I used to be bleeding edge everything until it became my day job. Now I cringe at "new" because it means I have thousands of people (literally) that are impacted by this little change I'm about to make. If nothing changes and it works then I don't need to change it for "fear" of effecting those end users.

Now I'm not that bad, I'll push changes that are under the promise of improvements and longer term stability, but I totally get the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mindset now.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2021-04-30, 09:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
They only fear that kind change because it means a shit ton of work on the hardware side (likely the fun part), and on the bad side, baby sitting all the idiots in the office till 12AM for months afterwards because they don’t know how to print invoices and spreadsheets anymore.
Oh, to be clear, by "IT" I meant the tech field in general.

But yes, IT departments as in admins, etc. are way more resistant to change, even. Everything they do is considered a cost by management, after all, and migration is always costly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
What, how dare you think the dock is better than the old Launcher! In some ways it isn’t, but let’s not go there.
Agreed.

(Mac OS 9 didn't even have cmd-tab, though, did it?)
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2021-04-30, 09:22

I don’t think cmd+tab was even in early versions of OSX. Didn’t that come in Panther or Tiger?
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2021-04-30, 09:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I don’t think cmd+tab was even in early versions of OSX. Didn’t that come in Panther or Tiger?
Hm.

It looks like 10.1 Puma added the feature where you can press 'q' while command-tabbing. So cmd-tab itself was presumably already there, maybe as a holdover from NeXTstep even.

I feel like I used some third-party utility in the Mac OS Classic days to get a cmd-tab-like UI. Absolutely no idea what it would've been. (I don't think it was DragThing.)
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drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-04-30, 10:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
Now I'm not that bad, I'll push changes that are under the promise of improvements and longer term stability, but I totally get the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mindset now.
This reminds me of the era when I would update Navigator often, using the latest builds. It was a MESS when one install caused massive crash. I finally realized that this was my production machine and I couldn't risk this type of behavior.


...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2021-04-30, 10:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I’d like a “war stories” thread of funny stories from resident old timers and all their 80’s/90’s Mac-using trials and tribulations. Would be some funny reading.
Well, get started. I'll be expecting a new thread by lunch!
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Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2021-04-30, 12:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I don’t think cmd+tab was even in early versions of OSX. Didn’t that come in Panther or Tiger?
Cmd-Tab was in the Hera builds prior to 10.0. (I have the installer DVDs in the garage...)
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Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2021-04-30, 12:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
Now I'm not that bad, I'll push changes that are under the promise of improvements and longer term stability, but I totally get the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mindset now.
Deployed environment: update on a regular predictable basis with copious warning and information for users.

Testing environment: abuse that bad boy. Reformatting from scratch is power unto the gods.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-04-30, 14:32

Yep. That sums it up. Even better since I mostly deal with VMs. Snapshot and have a blast. Revert if you must.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2021-04-30, 14:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
Cmd-Tab was in the Hera builds prior to 10.0. (I have the installer DVDs in the garage...)
Okay, I didn’t switch to OSX until 10.2.8, so I wasn’t paying too much attention. Still had some must have apps on classic Mac OS, so I was a hold out. I likely just didn’t know about the key commands till later.

As for Mac OS classic, running more than one app at a time was painful, I usually just didn’t do it. That was a huge improvement with OSX. Hard to remember what that was like is.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-04-30, 15:16

Those were such fun times. I remember going to those OS X release events (San Diego Apple store for Jaguar, Atlanta Apple Store for Panther, etc.). I was on that public beta on my iMac DV and later releases on it and my iMac G4 (cheetah, puma and Jaguar). I actually bought my PowerBook G4 on the Friday Panther was released (got it for free, I remember...which, after dropping $2,500 I felt it was the least they could do).

Drove home from Atlanta that night and installed it. Pretty much stayed up all night, enjoying the new OS and my new Mac.
  quote
Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2021-04-30, 17:41

I met Brad when we were the ADC Student Developer winners from NC for '98. All expenses to WWDC.

Or was it '99...

Shit, we old.
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Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-04-30, 18:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
This sort of fear of change is oddly common in IT (you'd think tech folks would embrace the future).
To be fair, it's not always about fear of change. It's often about preserving access amid differing economic and business circumstances.

I was of course joking about wanting FW800 ports in a new Mac computer, but I do still own a Mac with a FW800 port and have a few drives kicking around the office. I also have a couple decades worth of backup data DVDs from eons past. It's conceivable that I might need to access some of that data if a really old file ever gets corrupted on my main drives.

So I might want a dongle that connects FW800 to the latest ports, and I want SuperDrive connectivity, even if its day is long past.

I absolutely do not need a SuperDrive in the forthcoming larger iMac, and would be thrilled if the machine itself had only a number of TB4/USB4 ports.

But there are business cases when an IT person might want to preserve the ability to access legacy devices.
That's different from saying they just don'r want to embrace the connectivity of the future.
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