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Power Brick as Hub?
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drewprops
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2021-04-21, 01:41

I'm trying to go to sleep but can't stop thinking about how the new iMac's power cable also pulls in a network connection. Would it be possible to add other hublike connections there?

...

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chucker
 
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2021-04-21, 04:01

Either this is an entirely proprietary thing, or, much simpler, it's literally just a USB-C hub with a custom magnetic plug. In which case, sure, add whatever.
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turtle
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Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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2021-04-21, 07:43

I would assume hub given the power requirements for the new iMac can't be that massive. I'm interested to see what comes from the teardown that are going to happen though.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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kscherer
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2021-04-21, 10:45

Nope. Very proprietary thing. The power supply is 143W, is a proprietary Apple brick with a fixed cord, and what may be one of those 3-prong power plugs like the old iMac G4's used (although it does not look like it), but the description at 31:50 in the presentation makes it absolutely clear that this is a proprietary Apple thing that is likely patented, expensive, and hard to replace.

I am not happy about this solution.

And I cannot wait for puppies, kittens, rabbits, and parrots to start munching on the low-voltage side of the cord, because you can no longer run over to Walmart and buy a cheap, $5 computer power cord. This thing is likely $100+, color-matched, and because there are 7 of them, will be hard as hell to find short of ordering direct from Apple.

And I suspect Amazon will flow with $30 counterfeits that will either fail to work, or burn your house down.

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turtle
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2021-04-21, 10:48

You know, it is for a desktop though. I mean, those things normally don't go bad and at least if the power supply fails it can be replaced without opening up the Mac now. It isn't all bad, but they could have done better for the consumer.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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kscherer
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2021-04-21, 10:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
You know, it is for a desktop though. I mean, those things normally don't go bad and at least if the power supply fails it can be replaced without opening up the Mac now. It isn't all bad, but they could have done better for the consumer.
Yes, there is that. Still, this could have been done in a functional manner. But, as I have said, Apple is all-in with USB-C and TB3. For those of you who are buying into the idea that the next-gen MacBook Pro's will have a bunch of legacy ports, look no further than this iMac—because it ain't happening.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-04-21, 11:43

That's true. I think yesterday's iMac is giving a really strong peek at other things to come (WWDC? This autumn?), in terms of ports. I think they're looking to go as small, thin and light as possible. The new Mac Pro, when it shows up in about 3-7 years, might have some useful ports on it, but I'm betting the new MacBook Pro will be as bare/clean as can possibly be while still working.
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kscherer
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2021-04-21, 12:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
when it shows up in about 3-7 years
It will be announced at WWDC 2022 and ship sometime in the fall of 2309.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-04-21, 13:19

"We're taking pre-orders in May 2207!"

Seriously...how hard is it for a company to come up with a pro tower that isn't completely stupid? And maybe somewhat affordable? Because, right now, there's one hell of a gulf. Perhaps that changes with the next-gen M-whatever comes out (and perhaps a new, redesigned tower with a more reasonable price, at least as an option).

But right now? Yikes. If you don't want a notebook or an AIO, you're looking at a Mac mini (starting at $699, or $1,799, completely maxed out, hardware-wise...16GB RAM, 2TB storage and gigabit ethernet), or a Mac Pro (starting at $5,999 and going up to approximately $14 trillion, once you add the display, wheels, etc.). Seems like there might ought to be something in that $2,000-3,000 space (as there was for years, and everyone seemed happy and well-served).

I'm hoping by the end of 2021, some stuff is a bit clearer and dialed-in (and on the AS). I know the technical timeline is summer 2022 - two years from WWDC 2020, right? - but they've undershot it before).
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PB PM
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2021-04-21, 14:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Nope. Very proprietary thing. The power supply is 143W, is a proprietary Apple brick with a fixed cord, and what may be one of those 3-prong power plugs like the old iMac G4's used (although it does not look like it), but the description at 31:50 in the presentation makes it absolutely clear that this is a proprietary Apple thing that is likely patented, expensive, and hard to replace.

I am not happy about this solution.

And I cannot wait for puppies, kittens, rabbits, and parrots to start munching on the low-voltage side of the cord, because you can no longer run over to Walmart and buy a cheap, $5 computer power cord. This thing is likely $100+, color-matched, and because there are 7 of them, will be hard as hell to find short of ordering direct from Apple.

And I suspect Amazon will flow with $30 counterfeits that will either fail to work, or burn your house down.
But the iMac is almost as thin as a piece of cardboard, that’s all the matters right? I mean the thing is a big screen iPad Pro with a stand for all intensive purposes.
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kscherer
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2021-04-21, 15:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I mean the thing is a big screen iPad Pro with a stand for all intensive purposes.
No, it's still a Mac, and you know that.

Similar design language? Yes, but definitely not that other thing. It really does come down to the OS.

And on that note, with an M1 installed how long before Mac OS gets shoe-horned into an iPad Pro?

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
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chucker
 
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2021-04-21, 15:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
"We're taking pre-orders in May 2207!"

Seriously...how hard is it for a company to come up with a pro tower that isn't completely stupid?
Very hard, when the company is full of people who don't actually want this product to happen.

Very easy, when it isn't.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-04-21, 15:41

They should just have the guts, then, to come out and cop to it. Just take it off the table completely if they’re just going to screw around with non-updated trash cans and $6,000+ overkill.

Just make notebooks, the iMac and Mac mini and say “we’re no longer going to chase the professional desktop market”.

Yes, people will crap two bricks, but they kinda are already. And have been for a while.

If they put out a(nother) redesigned pro desktop/tower (M-based, etc.) and it doesn’t set the universe on fire...just give it up. Or go back to the cheese grater case which nobody bitched about (and mere mortals could actually afford).

If I didn’t know better, since 2013, I’d almost think Apple was deliberately irking/frustrating their pro desktop users. Because I can’t take their efforts these past 7-8 years seriously. And this should be the easiest computer of all to design/build. That market isn’t asking for/expecting thinness, light weight, excessive style, colors, etc.

Just make a silver box, put some fast, impressive shit in it, don’t paint yourself into thermal corners, allow for a bit of expansion/customization and sell it at a reasonable, sober price. None of this seems on anyone’s to-do list in Cupertino.

So, yeah...you’re probably right. But that makes them shitheads for being liars and fakes about their commitment to pro users. I’d rather they just be honest if they’re not truly interested in pursuing that crowd.

A hurtful truth beats a pretty lie any day.

I’m glad I’m not in that user group. It doesn’t/won’t affect me, but still...
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PB PM
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2021-04-24, 16:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
No, it's still a Mac, and you know that.

Similar design language? Yes, but definitely not that other thing. It really does come down to the OS.

And on that note, with an M1 installed how long before Mac OS gets shoe-horned into an iPad Pro?
Aside from screen size and OS, they are the same though, which was kind of the point. The iMac might actually be thinner since it doesn't need a battery, and no I haven't looked at the dimensions. Thin just isn't something I care about in a computer.
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chucker
 
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2021-04-24, 16:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Aside from screen size and OS, they are the same though,
The OS is kind of a huge aspect. Aside from the OS, an Intel MacBook Pro is basically a Microsoft Surface Laptop.
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PB PM
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2021-04-24, 17:47

In Apple's M1 based units though, they are exactly the same, top to bottom, since they have the same SoC. We already know how they iMac will perform, it's a Macbook/Mac Mni with a bigger screen, and maybe better fans? The iPad Pro should be just as fast as a Macbook Air, assuming that iOS software is as well optimized as it is on Mac OS.

The Intel MBP and the MS surface have some different components. Just having the same CPU in an Intel machine does not mean they are the same. The quality of the chipset matters, as do many other components separate from the CPU, it's not a SoC. So they are similar, but different. This is clearly seen when you compare Intel based Windows machines with the same CPU/GPU etc, but in testing they can have very different performance numbers.

The only thing that will separate M1 Macs and iPad Pro performance will be UI.
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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
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2021-04-24, 21:00

I couldn't sleep last night, and started thinking about what would happen if the 24-inch was actually the whole iMac line.

And at WWDC Apple announced a smaller Mac Pro and 30" screen combo as a replacement.

Last edited by Frank777 : 2021-04-25 at 03:19.
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PB PM
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2021-04-24, 23:02

Not too far off from my concern actually. I expect an M1x iMac Pro, with iMac Pro price tag. Leaving the larger screen models out of reach for normal people. If they do, I'd just recommend people get a Mac Mini and a 4k 27" LCD.
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Frank777
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2021-04-25, 19:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Not too far off from my concern actually. I expect an M1x iMac Pro, with iMac Pro price tag. Leaving the larger screen models out of reach for normal people. If they do, I'd just recommend people get a Mac Mini and a 4k 27" LCD.
The iMac Pro was priced starting at $4,999.

If Apple can get me a compelling smaller Mac tower paired with a great 30" monitor for USD$5k, I'll happily invest in one.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-04-26, 12:25

Looking at what the 24" is going for (how it effectively went up a couple of hundred bucks in some ways, with the "crippled" one now at $1,299 instead of $1,099 as before, even though they are still selling a non-Retina $1,099 21.5" model, but I can't see it flying off the shelves), I can imagine a new, larger (30"?) and M1x (or whatever) iMac starting at $1,999, for sure. Especially if, along with the larger screen, beefier processor, etc. it also comes, out of the box, with 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD (like the $1,799+ MacBook Pros). I think they're going to let that 24" model, with the various RAM and SSD BTO options cover that $1,299-1,999 range, and if you wanna go Big & Powerful, you gotta shell out $2,000 or more.

In 2021, anything with "Pro" in its name should come with 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD, especially if it's $1,500+. And, right now, they're doing that with the notebooks and the Mac Pro, so I'm sure a larger, more capable iMac would have that too.
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kscherer
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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2021-04-26, 12:30

Actually, the price didn't change at all. You have to remember that Apple replaced the entry 21" 4k iMac at $1299 with a new entry 24" 4.5k iMac for $1299 with the same RAM and storage, but a larger display. So, in actuality the price stayed the same but you get a bigger display with higher resolution and a much faster processor and bus.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-04-26, 12:33

The really interesting part is the actual lack of diversity with the M1. What is actually different generally speaking? Screen size and cooling solutions right? At least everything will be consistent.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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kscherer
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2021-04-26, 12:35

I like the idea of a consistent processor family rather than a ton of confusing options.

When the M1X drops, then we will have a "choice".
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pscates2.0
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-04-26, 12:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Actually, the price didn't change at all. You have to remember that Apple replaced the entry 21" 4k iMac at $1299 with a new entry 24" 4.5k iMac for $1299 with the same RAM and storage, but a larger display. So, in actuality the price stayed the same but you get a bigger display with higher resolution and a much faster processor and bus.
But didn't they remove a few ports and kinda knock down the graphics a bit as well? I know it all kinda shakes out (the newer, bigger screen is great).

But I'd never consider that $1,299 model...it seems a bit held back/crippled. I'd have to get the $1,499 (and then also pay a bit more for the 16GB RAM upgrade). What I used to get for $1,499 in the 21.5" iMac would now cost me $1,699. I consider that a $200 increase. Screen and processor aside, that $1,299 model isn't as "complete", across the board, as it once was IMO. The $1,499 model seems like the better option, even if you gotta tack on another $200(?) to bump up the RAM.

I suppose I could get the $1,299, bump up the RAM and be at my same $1,499. I just don't like the shortage of ports and the hobbled graphics, especially on that larger display. I'd hate for that to translate into any sort of "less than" experience for that money. I think the "full featured" $1,499 may be the smarter buy, with "legs".

That's really the only thing keeping me from loving the new iMac, just how things kinda got repositioned/shuffled a bit. The $1,299 just doesn't seem as good of a buy as it was a week ago, that's all. And I'm sure that's on purpose. They're probably hoping most go "hey, for just $200 more I get two more ports and the full-on 8-core graphics...whatever the hell that means."

But I do know that 8 is higher than 7, so...

Although I do have to say that I like they've taken the processor and graphics BTOs out of the equation, because maxing out a 21.5" iMac a week ago gets to the $2,000+ realm real quick. Although we've yet to see what they are going to allow/offer for upgrades because you can't get that far on their "buy now" section. A lot of things, about how these can be configured (and what it'll cost to do so) are still unknown until their pre-ordering goes live this Friday.

Maybe they're cutting the price on their RAM BTO?






And then I woke up.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2021-04-26 at 12:59.
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turtle
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2021-04-26, 12:42

That is especially relevant when we can't user upgrade ANYTHING now.
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kscherer
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2021-04-26, 12:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
But didn't they remove a few ports and kinda knock down the graphics a bit as well? I know it all kinda shakes out (the newer, bigger screen is a good deal). But I'd never consider that $1,299 model...it seems a bit held back/crippled. I'd have to get the $1,499 (and also pay a bit more for the 16GB RAM upgrade). What I used to get for $1,499 in the 21.5" iMac would now cost me $1,699. I consider that a $200 increase. Screen and processor aside, that $1,299 model isn't as "complete", across the board, as it once was IMO. The $1,499 model seems like the better option, even if you gotta tack on another $200(?) to bump up the RAM.
The GPU in the M1 is way faster than the GPU in the 21.5" 4k. The RAM is faster, the storage is faster, and the processor is on another level.

21.5" 4k Intel i5 6-core with 16GB RAM - $1699.

24" 4.5k Apple M1 8/7-core with 16GB RAM - $1499

The M1 is waaaaaaaay faster, and $200 cheaper.

FYI, that extra GPU core isn't that big a deal, so the 8/8 isn't necessary. Also, those two extra USB-C ports aren't a big deal either. Considering you are most likely going to need some sort of hub one way or another, just get one that has everything and then the ports don't matter for squat.

I plan on getting the 8/7 w/16GB RAM for $1499. Plenty of iMac for pretty much everyone (excepting storage—which will vary with the user—but 256 is enough for me).

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
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turtle
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2021-04-26, 12:52

Sounds like someone in sales talking.
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kscherer
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2021-04-26, 13:00

Most sales twits try to talk you into something more expensive. I'm a realist, and try to get my customers into the best value. My technique rarely fails.

Paul is big into design stuff, so he might need more power, but there is very little power difference between the 8/7 and the 8/8, although it might make better sense for him in the long run. Still, my point stands. Even if he chooses the 8/8 and 16GB RAM, that's still the same price as the old 6-core with 16GB RAM, but the computer is vastly better.

His post is a bit cryptic, because he talks about getting the "better" 21.5" 4k, but then uses the cheaper model's price to make his point.

I can tell you both right now, there is no price hike. The prices and options are identical, but you get a significantly better computer for the same money.

A base model with less cores was/is $1299; RAM is $200

An upgraded model with more cores was/is $1499; RAM is $200.

The prices are the same! But the M1 entry model with less cores is now much faster than the Intel version's upgraded model with more cores. So, if you look at all of the variables, a faster computer is now $200 cheaper than last season's faster computer. In fact, it's actually faster than last season's fastest 21.5" 6-core i7 version.

And that is not a price hike.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
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turtle
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2021-04-26, 13:02

Don't worry, I agree with you in that.

Personally I wouldn't go with a 8/7 for anything. I would also go with a minimum of 16GB of RAM.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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chucker
 
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2021-04-26, 15:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
The really interesting part is the actual lack of diversity with the M1. What is actually different generally speaking? Screen size and cooling solutions right? At least everything will be consistent.
Yup.

The M1 is really an A14 with more cores (4+4 vs. 2+4), and slightly faster ones (3.2 GHz vs. 3.0), and some added features like Thunderbolt. So, a faster iPhone / iPad Air, if you will.

And it spans the entire range of the iPad Pro and MacBook Air (both fanless), the Mac mini, MacBook Pro (one fan each), and the iMac (two fans, as I understand it). All have up to 16 GiB RAM; some come in 8 GiB options. All have either 7 or 8 GPU cores. All have exactly the same CPU clock speed and core count; they only differ, due to active cooling, in how long they can sustain their full clock speed. All have the same GPU, the same Neural Engine, and the same what-we-used-to-call chipset. All have similar limitations, like up to two Thunderbolt ports, and up to two displays (in the case of laptops, one of them being the internal display).

The iMac is, both visually and in many of its internals, an iPad Pro with a bigger, non-touch screen, and no battery.
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