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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2021-04-26, 15:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
The GPU in the M1 is way faster than the GPU in the 21.5" 4k.
Well, it depends. The Intel 4K could be configured with a 555X, 560X, or Vega 20. The M1 GPU seems to score similarly to the Vega 20, which, to your point, used to be a $350 option.
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Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-04-26, 15:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Yup.

All have up to 16 GiB RAM; some come in 8 GiB options.
Has anyone taken a deep dive into the RAM issue?
That is, how much RAM is truly needed on the upper level Mac platforms?

I understand Apple's point that the new design means that their soldered-on RAM performs better. But how much better?
Does the 16 GB RAM on the M1 perform like 24, 32, or 64 GB?

An Intel iMac goes up to 128GB RAM, and I don't see Apple offering that. Even if they did, I doubt real people could afford it.

Apple's RAM upgrade pricing is deeply messed up.
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-04-26, 15:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Well, it depends. The Intel 4K could be configured with a 555X, 560X, or Vega 20. The M1 GPU seems to score similarly to the Vega 20, which, to your point, used to be a $350 option.
That’s pretty impressive. I didn’t know that.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2021-04-26, 15:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Well, it depends. The Intel 4K could be configured with a 555X, 560X, or Vega 20. The M1 GPU seems to score similarly to the Vega 20, which, to your point, used to be a $350 option.
Hey hey, this is the stuff I can wrap my head around.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-04-26, 15:37

I was thinking about RAM as a reality thing nowadays. I mean, I need a ton of RAM for VMs that I run that require it. But if I move to a system like this I wouldn't need RAM for VMs so there goes the requirement for additional RAM. Generally day to day I can say my MBP (2016 TouchBar) can handle everything I throw at it and it's got 16GB of RAM in it. Now there are many times where I've maxed the RAM consumption and it grinds to a halt working through that overload of RAM usage... but by that time Safari is crashing among other apps as well. I'll also throw out there that this MBP is only getting 8GB of RAM for macOS and apps because VMware gets 8GB for Windows 10. So I know I can operate with only 8GB if I weren't running VMs.

Short version, most won't even need 16GB really.

Edit: I currently have 51 tabs open in Safari! It is holding 1.02GB of RAM. Photos is actually holding more with 1.48GB.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-04-26, 15:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
Has anyone taken a deep dive into the RAM issue?
That is, how much RAM is truly needed on the upper level Mac platforms?

I understand Apple's point that the new design means that their soldered-on RAM performs better. But how much better?
Honestly, that seems a bit like Apple marketing hype to me.

Putting the RAM on the package reduces latency, sure. Having unified memory between CPU and GPU also reduces the need to copy buffers. But I see this "you need less RAM now" stuff a lot, and… that just doesn't sound right to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
Does the 16 GB RAM on the M1 perform like 24, 32, or 64 GB?

An Intel iMac goes up to 128GB RAM, and I don't see Apple offering that. Even if they did, I doubt real people could afford it.

Apple's RAM upgrade pricing is deeply messed up.
I think if you previously needed 128 GiB, there's no way you'll be happy with 16 now.

IMHO, this is simply a design limitation for the M1. They made the M1 as a slightly upgraded A14 / ersatz A14X, and made Macs to fit those requirements. They fit them really well in some ways, in that the CPU and GPU area arguably overpowered; they barely fit them in other ways, e.g. in the limitation of external monitors and Thunderbolt ports. And in RAM.

Higher-end Macs won't be a good fit for the M1. They need an architecture that supports RAM that isn't on the package, because Apple isn't going to make a monstrous die that can fit the 1.5 TiB RAM you can put in a Mac Pro. Sooner or later, there'll have to be some kind of chip that offers external expansion.
  quote
Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2021-04-26, 15:59

Great to hear. I really hope that's the direction it goes.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Katan
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-04-26, 17:22

I think later this year there will be another presentation/event and it’ll make last November’s look like child’s play.

If this in-house stuff is truly their aim, and they know that not everyone is served by an Air, mini or 16GB RAM, I’m confident they’ve been hard at work in that higher-end, next-generation round of AS.

I do think the lineup will eventually have a very distinct, clear-cut divide between “for the rest of us” and “for those who truly earn your living with this stuff”. Make the word “pro” really mean something, while at the same time offering really capable, cool-running and long-lasting Macs for the sub-$1,499 users.

It’s a very cool time to be a Mac user. And I think by next spring we’re going to see a really nice lineup, across the board Once we get past this weird transition period and everything is on AS, I think a lot of decisions, purchase plans, what people think they need/want, etc. are going to be quite simple for most. And 2-3 years from now?

As I’ve said elsewhere, they’re not going through all this time, upheaval and transition just to offer up “eh…good enough” and what we’ve already know/had for 15 years. I think they’re looking to truly make a long-term dent and blow some minds. I think they’ve only (barely) scratched the surface. You know they’ve got some serious crap in their labs as we speak, and it’ll be on the street before we know it.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2021-04-26, 22:35

The best part of the new system for Apple is they can force obsolesce much faster, because people wont be able to upgrade anything at all to make it last longer. Just look at iPhones, after 4 years they get really sluggish on the newest OS and you have to move on or live through the pain.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-04-27, 08:02

PB PM, you did not make that sound comforting. You should be saying how Apple will encourage a subscription like model so you never have to use a phone/Mac that is obsolete and unable to handle the new tasks day to day!

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-04-27, 08:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Just look at iPhones, after 4 years they get really sluggish on the newest OS and you have to move on or live through the pain.
That was certainly the case for a while (my 3G which originally shipped with 2.x was awful on 4.x; my iPad mini 2 which shipped with 7.0 is sluggish though still usable with 12.x), but it's gotten better, I think.

There's also reason to believe they're adding the capability to stay on an older OS — right now, you can choose between 14.5 and 14.6 beta, and I'm guessing that's a test run for letting people choose between 14.x and 15.x.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2021-04-27, 08:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
PB PM, you did not make that sound comforting. You should be saying how Apple will encourage a subscription like model so you never have to use a phone/Mac that is obsolete and unable to handle the new tasks day to day!
That’s a great model for business use, and Apple’s pocketbooks, but for the average person that would be a nightmare. If anything Apple is more likely to go the route of renting (subscription) computer power to users via a low power dumb box. Similar model to all the GPU game subscription systems out now days. I don’t lease cars, and I sure won’t subscribe to lease computer power, it’s an endless money pit, but that’s just me.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-04-27, 08:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
If anything Apple is more likely to go the route of renting (subscription) computer power to users via a low power dumb box. Similar model to all the GPU game subscription systems out now days.
That isn't really their style, though.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2021-04-27, 08:48

Apparently it works with iPhone so why not let them move to the Mac for it too? I mean, for a 12 Pro at 256GB it is only $200 more total for two years over buying the phone outright. I can totally see people doing that for a computer. Would I, not even a chance right now. Given the subscription culture that so many businesses are pushing too.... I can see them doing it.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2021-04-27, 14:39

People upgrade their phones far more often than the computers these days. Pro users who always need more CPU power sure, but the average user? Meh.
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