New Member
Join Date: May 2006
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I know the debate/comparisons have been beaten to death, but I have some specific questions for you all:
My girlfriend will be going to China soon for a month-long study abroad program. She desperately wants to replace her slow, bulky and asthmatic HP laptop and is of course drawn to Apple. After checking out the MacBook quite extensively, I'm pretty impressed with it, and by all accounts, its performance seems to be very close to that of the MacBook Pro. The issue is that she's studying Architecture and does need to run some fairly intensive apps (Boot Camp/Parallels will probably be her godsend). I looked at some of the programs' spec requirements, and for optimal performance they recommend a discrete graphics card, but by all accounts, everything would run on the MacBook. So, seeing that the MacBook Pro seems to be plagued with a good number of problems, should she load up a MacBook with 2GB and save a little cash or spring for the MacBook Pro, probably scrounge a little bit on the RAM and hope that there's no whine/scalding? |
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I shot the sherrif.
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Which architecture programs specifically is she looking to run?
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New Member
Join Date: May 2006
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Hmm...I know she uses Form Z. She also uses AutoCAD (which seems to have the most demanding specs). Also some Adobe apps like Photoshop and Illustrator.
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is the next Chiquita
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Sounds like she may be better off with MBP; Photoshop and so will run just fine on MB, but if shes going to do any image rendering, dedicated GUI will be necessary.
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Selfish Heathen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
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"Rendering" final results with graphics applications almost never uses the GPU on consumer machines. That kind of work is done by the CPU. In the realm of 3D software, the GPU is usually used only for displaying temporary working views with reduced details. In the realm of 2D software, the GPU is used even less. The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting. |
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New Member
Join Date: May 2006
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I guess the question really has become whether or not a 2.0 GHz MacBook with 2.0GB of RAM would be suitable for running these programs occasionally.
Thoughts? |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
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I played with the MB tonight, and keep in mind that it has a 13 inch screen. This screen seemed TINY in front of me in comparison to my 15 inch PB G4. The screen real estate is pretty important if the machine is going to be used for the design/editing apps listed above. Of course, access to another (bigger) monitor changes everything.
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is the next Chiquita
Join Date: Feb 2005
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If I am incorrect, then what's with them asking for a dedicated GPU? |
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Selfish Heathen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
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Here we see a workspace for some 3D artist/engineer/etc. The way most 3D applications work is they use OpenGL or DirectX with the GPU for the viewports that display the content to the user. This implementation allows for quick translation, rotation, scaling, etc. on the fly. If basic shading with antialiasing is all you need, you can produce your rendered output here as you describe with the GPU. However, that display usually lacks many other advanced features that the artist/engineer/etc. would like to use. Here we see a final rendering. This 3D application produced this image using only the CPU. Why does it use the CPU instead of the GPU? Better control. Some advanced ray tracing techniques are not easily handled by OpenGL or DirectX. Some of these additional features require such extensive modification with unusual conditions at various steps in the rendering process that the designers of these applications are better off writing their own custom ray tracing engine strictly in software. Quote:
The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting. |
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Actually, I thought it was a matter of precision. Whereas real-time rendering (on GPUs) can afford to sacrifice some precision (and, thus, quality) over performance, this cannot be done for final, high-quality renderings. So, they're done on CPUs. Takes significantly longer, but is much closer to expectations.
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Selfish Heathen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
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Yes, precision is a part of it too, but not all. Some things, as I understand them, simply won't work the way GPUs play with polygons. Granted, I'm not intimately familiar with all of the latest hardware pixel/vertex shader features.
I'm really glossing over a lot of little details in that explanation, but I think it gets the point across. The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting. |
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I was also under the impression that this is quite a problem for Core Image and Core Video: when GPU-accelerated, the (still/motion) image quality is lacking in the details.
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I shot the sherrif.
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Yeah, she'll need a MBP then to be safe. I wouldn't want to get something with an integrated GPU in her case.
Tons of scaling and rotating in autocad and the like. Google is your frenemy. Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me |
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is the next Chiquita
Join Date: Feb 2005
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So- dedicated GPU is a plus for the work process, but not the final rendering.
Makes sense, I suppose. I also have to admit that my perceptions of GPU is still in wrong place. I mean, if it doesn't process images, then why is it a graphics processor in first place?!? Nonetheless, thanks for explanation. With that in mind, it does sounds like dedicated GPU is much more important because you would be using it more while you're sketching/creating a feature which is more labor intensive than rendering the final image. |
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Selfish Heathen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
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The number available graphics processing functions is finite (but growing). That's why rendering of images with advanced features is still relegated to the CPU. On a related note, some companies are starting to develop PPUs: physics processing units. This type of coprocessor, like the GPU, is being created due to the growing demand from the gaming industry and offers fast, dedicated processing of functions related to motion, acceleration, collision-detection, and so forth. The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting. |
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Recife, Brazil
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I was in a similar situation when I was thinking about buying a laptop. I'm a graphic designer, and I was wondering if I should go for the MB or MBP. Well, since I mainly use Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, and the such, I don't really have a need for a GPU. And the 2.0 MB would suit me fine in this sense. But then 2 things hit me.
1) Screen size. I have a 12" iBook, and even though the 13" is obviously larger than the 12", it'd still be too small. I don't tend to work in one spot where I could simply connect it to another screen, so this is a big issue for me. This was more than enough for me to stop looking at the MB. 2) It might not be that likely to happen, but what IF Adobe (since they're gonna have to rewrite a big chunk of their Apps so that they're universal binaries) decides to take advantage of Core Image and use it in Photoshop? Core Image is all about taking some tasks and assigning them to the GPU like blurring and such effects. And that could make Photoshop potentially run faster in a MBP (when performing some tasks) than it would in a MB. www.portfoliowork.blogspot.com MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo 2.16GHz (coming mid-December) | iBook G4 12" 1.2GHz | iPod 5.5 80Gb | iPod 3G 20Gb |
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Selfish Heathen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
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The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting. |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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MB or MBP, If you are/your friend is going to be doing anything with graphics then the MBP is a must. More for screen size than anything from my perspective. I've been playing with my wife MB and a new MBP 15" for a few day now and the screen is just so much better on the MBP.
The screen alone will make the difference. The dedicated GPU will be a major plus too. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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is the next Chiquita
Join Date: Feb 2005
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On an aside, you say she's in Architecture- you could refer her to Architosh. Good reading and helps you realize how much you can do with Mac. In fact, some of best tools I've used, I read about it from there. Would hate it to see a student locked up in a single software simply because it's what school used, not because it's the best tool out there.
I'd definitely get myself MBP to do my CAD works. *counts pennies in wallet* |
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New Member
Join Date: May 2006
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Thanks for all the responses everyone. MBP definitely seems to be the way to go. Hopefully they'll roll out some additional Studen Union discount soon...
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