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MC: beta 1.8 - Exciting Times


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MC: beta 1.8 - Exciting Times
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-08-29, 15:00

SO, after PAX a bunch of 1.8 stuff is leaking out. This will definitely be the biggest update to MC since, well, ever... so post please post any new finds and thoughts about our upcoming transition. New items in 1.8:

• Bigger biomes. Will be more distinct.
Rivers. Will define biomes in some areas.
• Ravines.
Enderman. New baddies. The Travis Bickles of MC. Two block reach and will teleport to attack you when you move your crosshairs off of them. Major weakness: Water. They collect blocks to make geometric shapes when not killing players. Maybe a better analogy would be Owen.
• Silverfish. No idea what they do. Probably something unnecessary and irritating knowing Notch.
• Deeper, larger oceans. No new water mob in 1.8.
• Rain has been improved (?)
• NPC villages. Peaceful and leave you alone unless you attack one. Sort of like Zombie Pigmen in the Nether.
• Lava and torches will have new lighting effects, torches will give off light in your hand while holding it.
• Zombies will now drop rotten flesh as opposed to feathers.
• Beter bow & arrow. Charged arrows will have more power and fly further.
• Grow pumpkins via pumpkin seeds.
• Grow melons. Wooo! Notch has finally turned this into a real video game! Er, wait, no, I guess guys and gals can both do it. It involves planting. Le sigh.
• Hunger bar. Not entirely clear on how this works, but I guess sprinting has been introduced too. The more you sprint, the hungrier you get. I think. And it replenishes your health bar somehow too. I don't know.
• New meats: chicken duck and beef.
• Tables. Motherfucking not-bootleg tables. A welcome addition.
• Glass panes. !!! Thin panes of glass that take up the center of a block. Recoverable too. Not sure if they're stackable. One can hope.
• “Dead Mine Shafts” will be randomly generated like dungeons and will feature rails, torches and wooden pillars.
• Experience orbs. Something something to make it more like something. I don't care about this.
• "Strongholds" - old structures that have been abandoned. Built with quarter-stone, green quarter-stone, and may include iron bars, ivy, etc.
• A ton of new block choices.


Exciting stuff! Apparently it may be split into 2 updates and add more things like volcanoes, water mobs, etc. into 1.9. We shall see.

So it goes.

Last edited by 709 : 2011-08-29 at 15:16.
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-08-29, 15:13

So, the major issue with 1.8 is that all that new stuff will only appear in new chunks: And, more importantly, the new chunks use an entirely different world generator, so transitions between new and old chunks will not be smooth: expect cliffs or dropoffs between "new" and "old" regions.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-08-29, 15:22

Ya. We've been talking about this in-game recently. There's some talk of starting a new world.... which depending on the transition I'n not sure how I feel about.

Also, 1.9 sounds like it'll be as big of an update as 1.8. So that's something to consider as well.

Apparently the code for generating chunks is different enough where retaining the old world may not be an option. If it was as easy as "kill whatever is unused and regen" I'd be all on the "terrain smoothing team." But I don't know enough about how the chunks are/could be regenned, especially the mega 256x256 versus mini. I'm not even clear about the mini size.

So it goes.
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-08-29, 17:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
• Hunger bar. Not entirely clear on how this works, but I guess sprinting has been introduced too. The more you sprint, the hungrier you get. I think. And it replenishes your health bar somehow too. I don't know.
One way I read that this is expected to work is that when you're very hungry, you start losing life automatically, and when you're full, you start regenerating life automatically. Over time, you get hungry, meaning you have to eat periodically.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
  quote
Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-08-29, 17:45

Luckily, if cows and chickens drop meat now, food will be a lot easier to come by, even away from your farms.

I've actually been wondering about a map reset for a while now. I love my structures, but it would be great to get back to that "fear" that comes from the early game. That was partially my thinking in decamping all the way to the South like I have. Thoughts?
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-08-29, 18:23

I've spent the greater part of 2 months gathering resources for my current project, so you can see why I'd be hesitant to start over. That said, there is something enticing about starting a new world.

If I were to be perfectly honest, it would be a blow to have worked on something for so long but have to give it up. I've put a lot of effort into what I've built in the ANMC world. If we were all to start again from scratch... I don't know. It'd be a great place for lurkers to jump in and start anew, but I don't know that I'd want to be a part of it. Maybe later after the "final" MC drops, just to be sure the world wouldn't have to be rebooted after 1.9 or whatever.

I really want to take a hiatus until this is figured out, but I also love what I'm doing right now - which if it's for naught, so be it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
... but it would be great to get back to that "fear" that comes from the early game. That was partially my thinking in decamping all the way to the South like I have. Thoughts?
There's a reason I keep the area around FM largely unlit. It's still "scary" and reminds me of the old days.

A new world would take all of an hour to be lit up and rendered "safe".

So it goes.

Last edited by 709 : 2011-08-29 at 18:36.
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drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2011-08-29, 18:45

I'm cool with starting over... would it be possible to port selected regions to the new world? You know, take BP with us. Bruce's mob trap too?
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drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2011-08-29, 22:37

Oh, and I *like* there being a relatively safe area like BP for what it's worth.


...
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2011-08-29, 23:04

I'm kinda with 709 about all the work gone into what we have.

So I have an idea: Why not treat it like the original colonies and adjust send out the wagon train to expand into the New World? We could do it via a long Nether tunnel and just go out there.

The New World would have all the new map generation features and we don't lose what we have now. Nether passage makes for shorter run between the two "worlds" and minimize map generation in between. Each play can hang in either area. /tp and /tl would still function too.

Give the current world a good pruning and we'd be good to go.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-08-29, 23:09

Yeah: many people are planning to make a 1km Nether tunnel that leads to the new world. Downside is that it'll double the world size before long.

Last edited by Bryson : 2011-08-30 at 00:33.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2011-08-29, 23:51

I'd be cool with a new world. Or a super long tunnel. Either/or.

I haven't forgotten MC! I've just been going through a bit of a rough time IRL. The changes sound exciting, though, so I'm sure I'll be back to mining it up soon.
  quote
drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2011-08-30, 00:55

Maybe we buy a server farm from the profits I'm making on my book? And maybe people would be willing to sacrifice some of the faraway places to bring the scary new world closer back toward the known world? Easy for me to say, having never built a designed structure before
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-08-30, 02:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
The New World would have all the new map generation features and we don't lose what we have now. Nether passage makes for shorter run between the two "worlds" and minimize map generation in between. Each play can hang in either area. /tp and /tl would still function too.

Give the current world a good pruning and we'd be good to go.
A couple of potential issues:

1. First is speculative. We don't yet know that the two terrain generators are technically compatible within the same world file. A lot of people (in the larger MC community) are making a lot of assumptions based on past releases, but there hasn't been a change to the generator this drastic in all of beta and for a very long time in alpha. Some of the options originally discussed by Notch, like the configurable height ceiling, would create neighboring chunk files that would potentially be in wholly different formats (this much I know from having written a chunk reader). I look forward to news from the mothership on this one, but I won't hedge any bets until then.

2. We probably can't ever do the "deep" prune of the world map that I'd suggested previously, either before or after the new generator comes into place. You and I will also never be able to do selective in-game region regeneration after the update (at least not in old areas). Even if we did the deep prune today, a week or more in advance, we'd have to "fill out" the world again to a safe perimeter before the upgrade to be sure stray holes get recreated with the old terrain generator. We should still be able to do the large-grain "meta" chunk deletions, though.

FWIW, I'd personally be fine with tossing what we have today and going cold turkey with 1.8, but I'll propose one other possible alternative for handling the switch. Through various plugins, bukkit today has "multiworld" support that allows you to run several worlds simultaneously and let users jump between them. If it's technically possible, we could continue to run the "old" world as a secondary world. The old world would live on physical disk instead of the RAM disk, and it would have a virtual border set up (using another plugin) to prevent it from significantly growing from where it is today. In my mind, these would both be methods of preparing the world for deprecation, but this would allow us to keep around the old world long enough to transfer inventory stores, copy buildings if possible/necessary, etc.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2011-08-30, 02:46

Oh, another alternative if we *can't* keep the old world running is to zip it up one last time and offer it up for download so others can keep playing offline if they like.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
  quote
Gargoyle
http://ga.rgoyle.com
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In your dock hiding behind your finder icon!
 
2011-08-30, 07:32

You killed me!!! Sonofabiatch, you killed me!!!

After reading this and having a spare hour, I thought I would login and have a poke round...

I spawned in a wall / underground...

I suffered a painful, slow, suffocation...

It's all your fault... Yes, All of you!


OK, I have given up keeping this sig up to date. Lets just say I'm the guy that installs every latest version as soon as its available!
  quote
drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2011-08-30, 08:08

Serves you right.
  quote
ThunderPoit
Captain Potatoman
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Saint Paul
 
2011-08-30, 12:04

i had the same thing happen when i tried to warp to /spawn and lost all my stuff
somone buried the spawn point
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-08-30, 12:07

How is that possible? Spawn is protected - you can't build or mine there.
  quote
billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2011-08-30, 13:12

That's not true anymore...

but no one buried the spawn point; there's just been buginess in the spawn algorithm...
  quote
Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-08-30, 13:14

Really? I'll admit I haven't tried recently. I didn't know /spawn was working again.
  quote
drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2011-08-30, 13:42

Several of us logged in to find ourselves smothered. I've memorized some coord though and was able to warp away before losing my weather wand. I love that thing.


...
  quote
ThunderPoit
Captain Potatoman
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Saint Paul
 
2011-08-30, 14:05

There was a small hole just to the south of the safe house that i made and was unable to re fill in a futile attempt to recover my kit. If you type /spawn, you teleport to that spot.
If it gets filled in, you are smothered.
  quote
Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2011-08-30, 14:08

Oooh. Let's build a bedrock prison around it.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-08-30, 14:49

That was a thing with the 1.7 update. Everyone that dies goes back to spawn. Then everyone dies.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-08-30, 14:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
... but I'll propose one other possible alternative for handling the switch. Through various plugins, bukkit today has "multiworld" support that allows you to run several worlds simultaneously and let users jump between them. If it's technically possible, we could continue to run the "old" world as a secondary world. The old world would live on physical disk instead of the RAM disk, and it would have a virtual border set up (using another plugin) to prevent it from significantly growing from where it is today. In my mind, these would both be methods of preparing the world for deprecation, but this would allow us to keep around the old world long enough to transfer inventory stores, copy buildings if possible/necessary, etc.
I'd be down for this. I still don't love the idea of giving up all the work put into the BridgePort world, but if we had maybe a two week or so grace period to move a few supplies into the new world it wouldn't sting as much. A month in the desert for naught would be a little too much, honestly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
Oh, another alternative if we *can't* keep the old world running is to zip it up one last time and offer it up for download so others can keep playing offline if they like.
I'd like to get this either way. There's some finishing touches that I haven't made to some of my projects that I would do regardless. Actually, is it possible to get this file now-ish? Im sure there won't be any major changes before the update, if any.

So it goes.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-08-30, 15:05

Also, (sorry, just kind of posting shit as I think about it) what's the story with a larger world height/depth? Is that something we should consider with the new world? Does it mean double the loot down below or just spread out over layers? Do we have to double it to 256? Would the landscape remain the same but just +64 of air above? So many questions....

So it goes.
  quote
Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2011-08-30, 16:18

I think we should just aggressively trim the world and let the terrain regen with the new 1.8 algorithms. I'd be willing to help smooth the borders.

That said, Brad, what do you use to trim chunks? I have to do this on my server as well.

Sadly, being a technology pundit is truly never having to say you’re sorry. You can be wrong for years and never lose your job.—The Macalope
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-08-30, 16:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
I think we should just aggressively trim the world and let the terrain regen with the new 1.8 algorithms. I'd be willing to help smooth the borders.
I think what Brad is saying is that it may not be possible - that is, the two generators may not play nice together.
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Iago
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hmm?
 
2011-08-30, 16:37

I play on the Reddit server.

Stop being so precious. Wipe and start again with a clean slate.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2011-08-30, 17:01

I've been on the Reddit server. It made me throw up a little in my mouth.
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