[psmith2.0]

Silly question on the surface, I realize. But I'm being serious here.

I was just e-mailing someone and was trying to type "connoisseur" and it hit me that I've never really written that word before. Every way I tried kept showing up with the red underline. I know you can right-click and you're provided with suggestions. But you have to be quite far into the word for the built-in dictionary to give you reasonable, close choices (I was actually having trouble 4-5 letters in, which did me no good).

And the little Dashboard dictionary is no help. If you don't type the word exactly as it is, it doesn't even offer any "did you mean..." options. At least I'm not aware of that feature. Brad? Chucker?

But I remember I used to get so agitated as a kid, when I'd ask my Dad "who do you spell..." some particular word and he'd say "look it up". I had teachers pull that crap too.

You know, it kinda helps to know how to spell it if I need to "look it up"...and by that point, the problem has solved itself, hasn't it? Kinda like telling a one-legged man to "walk it off". Don't be an unhelpful smartass about...just tell me how to spell the $#%^#@ word, and I'll learn it and know it forever.



I always flash back to all that when I occasionally encounter a word I rarely use or have never written (or pegged the spelling). As a crossword and Scrabble afficia...afficio...fan (see? ), I'm a pretty good speller and have a decent vocabulary (my grammer sometimes ain't not no good, but I is working more harder on that).

But when you're typing an e-mail or writing a letter or blog (or post) entry and you realize you're spelling a certain word incorrectly, over and over, what exactly do you do? Grab a physical dictionary and just try to get as close as possible and skim through?

"Connoisseur" kicked my ass for some reason (I was all over the place on that one). I would be embarrassed to reveal some of my guesses/tries (but I probably made up some really cool new words in the process).

Not being exactly sure of what came after the two "n", the built-in dictionary and suggestions were doing me no good...they were throwing all kinds of words at me. Finally, I remembered Google (and how it autofills or tries to guess what you're searching for). So I went there and typed "film conno..." and it popped up.

So thanks, Google. You all-knowing bastard (and spelling coach).

So I guess that's what I'll do from now on...think of a phrase that involves the word and put it into Google?

Maybe I should just bone up on my spellification in general?

BTW, I don't own a physical dictionary. I've got it on my iPhone and on my iMac. Just no paper version. Maybe I should...

[Luca]

Paper dictionaries suck, FYI. Don't bother. Less helpful than a computer if you don't already know how to spell a word, and they take forever to use too. They don't even give you useful definitions. Most of the time they just cross-reference something and you have to go paging through again to find the REAL definition.

I generally type words into Google if I really have no idea how to spell them. I've been doing that with my most recent editing project. I'm editing a book about diseases affecting chickpea and lentil, and there are a lot of species names that I don't know if they're spelled correctly. So I just copy-paste the whole scientific name into Google and see if it comes up.

Of course, sometimes there are words that you're so far off even Google won't help, and you need context. I remember once trying to figure out how to spell "psoriasis," and I knew it was spelled weird but I forgot it started with the letter p. I somehow got it mixed up with "cirrhosis" and Google kept giving me the liver condition instead of the skin condition.

[turtle]

I ask my wife or daughter.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by turtle2472 I ask my wife or daughter.

I have neither, so I'm completely out of luck there.

Yeah, the paper dictionary kinda strikes me as an aggravating waste-of-time in these scenarios (but I was sure the resident brain trust would be jumping on my balls for not going to it immediately).

In which case, they'd be no better than my smart-assed old man, telling me to "look it up".

[curiousuburb]

Partly completed words can get clues by hitting Option-Escape.

But I think it only accesses the internal dictionary anyway.

I usually try to get close and then if still stumped right click and see if Google or wikipedia has a "did you mean" option.

[spotcatbug]

The way I do it is to type the whole word out to the best of my ability. The parts I can't do, I'll just do phonetically. Then I use the suggestion dealie-bob. I don't ever recall this not working.

For example, I would have typed "connisurr" (so wrong) and then done the suggestion pop-up. The correct spelling is in there - at least it is here in Firefox (I'm on a Windows machine right now).

[PKIDelirium]

I just use the Google bar in Safari.

[chucker]

I type opt-esc, like Curious said, ask Google, or similar.

[psmith2.0]

I tend to get really hung-up on words with double consonants, or with any sort of "e", "u" or "i" combinations.

"Maneuver" used to trip me up until I used it a few times. "Aficionado", up until about 45 minutes ago, I thought had two "f"s. "Lieutenant" always gave me trouble too, until I spent time around military personnel (there's another one!) and saw it written out on a frequent, ongoing basis.

"Queue" just seems like a bad joke.

Seven-plus years of heavy crossword play has helped with some of them, but up until today, it's entirely possible I've never written the word "connoisseur" because I had no idea what I was doing. I was like a monkey with a calculator.

[Luca]

The funny thing about those examples is that it's even harder if you're in Britain. They spell maneuver as "manoeuvre," which is even weirder and less intuitive than its American spelling (why the hell is the letter o in there?). And lieutenant is spelled the same, but they pronounce it "leftenant," which also makes no sense seeing as how there's no F anywhere in the word.

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by Luca The funny thing about those examples is that it's even harder if you're in Britain. They spell maneuver as "manoeuvre," which is even weirder and less intuitive than its American spelling (why the hell is the letter o in there?).

Borrowed word: French manoeuvre, from Old French maneuvre

re -> er, and phonetic dropping of the o = American spelling.

[curiousuburb]

Americans love to drop "u" too. (Colour, Mould, Neighbour, Honour, Aluminium, etc)

But don't get us started on the Eastern Europeans and their vowel problems.

9 consonants and only one I, WTF?

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by Curiousuburb Americans love to drop "u" too. (Colour, Mould, Neighbour, Honour, Aluminium, etc) But don't get us started on the Eastern Europeans and their vowel problems. 9 consonants and only one I, WTF?

I thought that was Welsh?

[Luca]

Slavic languages also are severely lacking in vowels. One example is the language Srpskohrvatski.

Also makes me think of this:

http://www.angelfire.com/ok5/pearly/...on-vowels.html

[Banana]

Originally Posted by Luca Slavic languages also are severely lacking in vowels. One example is the language Srpskohrvatski.

Do they actually do not pronounce vowels? I think it's just a case of them not writing out the vowels, no?

[Luca]

Originally Posted by Banana Do they actually do not pronounce vowels? I think it's just a case of them not writing out the vowels, no?

Yeah they make vowel sounds out of consonant clusters or something. I'm not a linguist, but they would have to have vowel sounds somewhere even if they don't specifically write vowels. It just looks really complicated and hard to pronounce to people who speak languages that do write out all their vowel sounds.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Curiousuburb Americans love to drop "u" too. (Colour, Mould, Neighbour, Honour, Aluminium, etc)

Technically, in "aluminum" we drop the letter i, thankyouverymuch. We're not that predictable!

[Banana]

Originally Posted by Luca Yeah they make vowel sounds out of consonant clusters or something. I'm not a linguist, but they would have to have vowel sounds somewhere even if they don't specifically write vowels. It just looks really complicated and hard to pronounce to people who speak languages that do write out all their vowel sounds.

Yeah. I can imagine it'd be a bitch to even to begin guess at how it'd be pronounced if you're not familiar with how it works (what combinations of vowels & consonants are acceptable & not), shooting down any hope for spelling those words. This problem is also prevalent, albeit to lesser degree, in English when we work with loaned words, which I suspect 'connoisseur' was from French and thus doesn't really fully conform to what we expect how a word should be spelt in English.

[addabox]

I've given up even pretending to know how to spell, since I do all my writing on a MacBook Pro and suggestions are never more than a two fingered tap away.

I generally don't have too hard a time with being so far off that the OS X dictionary has no idea what I'm talking about-- as has been mentioned, per the OP, even a rough stab at "Connoisseur" (connisur) will get you there. If your first attempt is to far gone (conisur) usually just doubling a letter or changing a vowel will knock something loose.

But it's true that the words that do confound me and OS X tend to be French, like "bureaucracy" which for some reason I always want to try as something like "beuracracy", mangled beyond even software's ability to mend. But, and again as has been noted, Google will parse that just fine.

However, nothing can repair my versions of "bourgeoisie", the spelling of which will absolutely not stay in my head and which took a few minutes to stumble on the correct version by throwing out strings of letters that I won't even repeat, because they imply I'm brain damaged.

[curiousuburb]

Originally Posted by Roboman Technically, in "aluminum" we drop the letter i, thankyouverymuch. We're not that predictable!

Thought I'd leave that rather than Curious to see if folks were paying attention.

You win a cookie.

[Kickaha]

You mean a biscuit.

[Banana]

Another thing occurred to me. I realized I only know *one* spelling rule... "i before e except if it's c" (e.g. 'believe' vs. 'receive' . Isn't that appalling or what? Surely there has to be more rules than this even though I imagine they're not going to be universal especially when dealing with loanwords.

[709]

Originally Posted by Banana Another thing occurred to me. I realized I only know *one* spelling rule... "i before e except if it's c"...

As a kid, I remember getting taught this rule with an additional line, though for the life of me I can't remember what it was. Something like "or when followed by *...*" or "or when something something *...* like needle and hay" (it's not needle and hay, obviously, but my brain remembers it that way.

Wierd.

[Kickaha]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/video/0003-ibeforee.htm

[addabox]

Or this.

[thegeriatric]

Originally Posted by Banana Another thing occurred to me. I realized I only know *one* spelling rule... "i before e except if it's c" (e.g. 'believe' vs. 'receive' . Isn't that appalling or what? Surely there has to be more rules than this even though I imagine they're not going to be universal especially when dealing with loanwords.

Actually I think it's "i before e except after c" At least that's what I was taught at school. But that was in the UK, so maybe different in other parts of the world.

[709]

Originally Posted by Kickaha http://www.merriam-webster.com/video/0003-ibeforee.htm

I didn't think she was cute at first, but when she said "or when it appears in comparisons and superlatives" I was like, "OK, I'd hit it... just keep talking."

[Noel]

Originally Posted by 709 Wierd.

I was thinking the same thing.

[709]

Originally Posted by Noel I was thinking the same thing.

JesusGod. Thank You.

It was honestly driving me nuts leaving that hanging out there like that. You get a well deserved cookie.

[Kraetos]

A combination of option-escape and Google. Google does a better job fixing words you misspell than the Mac OS X dictionary does, probably because Google has the advantage of indexing the spelling cesspool that is the internet.