[murbot]

Man planned to eat murder victim: police

Yeah. That 26 year old guy who was arrested for murdering that 10 year old daughter of his neighbor? He had plans for a bit more than just killing her.

I do believe I have just read the quote of the fucking century:

"Regarding a potential motive, this appears to have been part of a plan to kidnap a person, rape them, torture them, kill them, cut off their head, drain the body of blood, rape the corpse, eat the corpse, then dispose of the organs and bones," Purcell Police Chief David Tompkins told a news conference.

This makes the guy who threw a microwave on his girlfriends chest and rammed her head into the ground until she was out cold seem like a boy scout. How someone could ever become this deranged is beyond me.

In addition to finding the girl's bicycle dismantled and stowed under Underwood's bed, police found "a decorative dagger believed to be used in an attempt to cut off the victim's head, a hacksaw, duct tape, meat tenderizer, skewers, and a duffle bag."

Excuse me while I get a home security system installed and buy a handgun.

[turbulentfurball]

Decapitate, drain of blood and then rape?

I'll be interested to learn how his defence lawyer is going to tackle this case.

[alcimedes]

Originally Posted by turbulentfurball Decapitate, drain of blood and then rape? I'll be interested to learn how his defence lawyer is going to tackle this case.

Shoot him first and save the State the cost of a trial?

[turbulentfurball]

McClain County District Attorney, Tim Kuykendall, said he would file a first-degree murder charge against Underwood on Monday and seek the death penalty.

I'm normally against the death penalty, but doing that to a 10 year old girl seems to be swaying my judgement. I'm guessing the defence will use some kind of insanity plea to try to get him out of it.

[Windowsrookie]

sicko.

[psmith2.0]

I saw this story last night as well, but opted to go for the microwave story. This was just too much to get my head around, and might've come across a bit over-the-top in my anger and disgust.



Yeah, I can't believe what this sick twist did to that poor little girl.

That's about all I can say about this, because if I start I won't stop. And I'll say/wish some things that I could never take back or undo.

[Mac+]

That is unbelievably horrid - pure evil.

What drives people to behave like this ... are we missing something? Surely there must have been signs beforehand. I don't want to get into a debate about this person or the microwave thrower specifically but, generally speaking, what do the family and community of criminals such as these have to say for themselves? I know they did not commit the atrocities, but did they not notice something was not right?

[psmith2.0]

I always wonder about that very thing. Apparently this guy who murdered the little girl had no criminal record and, as usual, seemed to be "a normal guy" by his neighbors.

Some people are just that twisted, sick and/or evil I guess.

Then again, just because he has no criminal/arrest record...that only means he's never been caught, right?

Who knows what kind of stuff he's done over the years, and just got away with...

[Dorian Gray]

Mac+ and pscates2.0, you can't tell if someone's a criminal by looking in their eyes, or by noticing strange behavioural patterns, etc. Every schoolchild doodles on his notebook, drawing hideous monsters decapitating people, guns shooting bullets at things/people, torsos impaled on spears, etc. Such behaviour is, if not completely normal, at least completely common. Likewise, if one of your friends starts acting a bit funny, you don't start thinking, "ooh, who did he murder last night?". You think he's had a shit week at work, or that he's blowing something out of proportion, or perhaps even that he may need psychological counselling, but you'd never think murder.

I have friends who make some pretty objectionable jokes in certain limited situations, including innuendo about rape, etc. These guys are highly intelligent university students with well-developed systems of morality who wouldn't rape someone if they were ordered to at gunpoint. It's just off-the-wall humour, but if one of them flipped and became a serial rapist, the newspapers would sensationalise it and ask me why I didn't see it coming. I am very aware of the positive value of what the critics like to call "political correctness", but even I know that art and humour can be very effective due to their highly offensive nature. With so much perfectly legitimate weird shit going on in our pluralistic society, a culture of paranoia is created if people are expected to act on every suspicion they have about their neighbour.

So, without further ado, here is Kevin Underwood's blog. Pretty normal looking (though I haven't actually read it). His profile does include the following joke:

"If you were a cannibal, what would you wear to dinner?
The skin of last night's main course."

Without trying very hard I could find a hundred blogs with much edgier jokes and content, whose owners would be perfectly normal citizens who will never commit a crime more serious than a parking offence.

Interestingly, the last post on his blog is dated April 13th, the day after Jamie Rose Bolin went missing.

And here is a photo of the accused. A well-groomed white guy. (*shock horror!*)

[Mac+]

Dorian - thanks for the reply. Please don't misunderstand my intent for the question. I'm not saying phrenology and "ooh he's eyes are shifty, best put him away now" are the solutions I advocate.

While I can appreciate off-the-wall humour, and have indeed partaken in some pretty objectionable jokes myself over the years, I do not think that these are the basis for enquiry.

I'm more concerned that when/if people notice somebody distancing themselves from society why don't others lend a hand. We are all part of society ... it's the indifference that can lead to events like this I believe and that is the truly tragic part.

[EDIT] - I couldn't read the blog from here (China ... blocked) but thanks for the effort anyway.

[Dorian Gray]

Originally Posted by Mac+ I'm more concerned that when/if people notice somebody distancing themselves from society why don't others lend a hand. We are all part of society.

Absolutely.

If you can't access the blog you may think I'm exaggerating about its normality. In fact, it's incredibly bland and boring. Mostly links to wacky news stories, and one-line summaries of his opinion on them. There's a link to a story titled "Sleep Deprivation: The Great American Myth"; there's the recent story about Texan police going into bars and arresting people for being drunk ("Goddamn Ridiculous" according to him); there's a story about a man's toddler wandering into a strip club (Kevin's response: "Right here in Oklahoma."). Etc. Mind-numbingly tedious stuff that bloggers imagine people would want to read. Under "About Me" he writes "Single, bored, and lonely, but other than that, pretty happy". Going back to 2002 when he started the blog, there's a bunch of innocent blather about Alicia and Jimmy, who seem to his workmates. Absolutely normal stuff.

The only abnormal thing is the comments section of his last entry, which has been attacked by a hysterical mob who can't decide if they want Underwood to burn in a special spot in hell or be ass-raped in prison for the rest of his life. Terrifyingly, they've also accused someone called Chris of being an accomplice, based on nothing more than a vague similarity between a police e-fit and a photo of Chris on his own blog. Chris has responded by taking down his blog, probably because he's afraid of being lynched by the aforementioned hysterical mob. The fact that he took his photo down is of course prima-facie evidence that he assisted Underwood, according to the mob.

[Moogs]

Fucks like this where it's an open and shut case, don't even deserve a trial. I mean, what's the defense when there's mountains of physical evidence and probably a confession to boot. Insanity my ass. Insanity is not a defense, it's an explanation. I don't care if you are insane; you're no less a danger to society as a result of that. Retarded is one thing, insane is another.

In a perfect world, if you premeditated and committed such a crime, and you're not mentally retarded, you're going to die and not cost the tax payers of this country on red cent longer than you have to (i.e. incarceration, pussy-foot therapy, etc). Throw him in an unlighted 5' x 5' box with a cup of rice and water a day, until there is a slot opened up for the chair, then fry on medium voltage (to get the extra suffering in before death because that's called paying for your crime).

Fucking ridiculous that we even discuss this person as if they're worthy of being called human. I would even argue this POS is lower than a wild animal that attacks and kills a person because the wild animal is just doing what evolution programmed it to do when threatened or starving. Humans that do this do it to inflict suffering, end of story. End of rationale that you are entitled to a defense once a mountain of physical evidence is uncovered.

[ghoti]

Your reaction is understandable, Moogs (and others), but everybody deserves a fair trial. Sure, things are being abused, like plea bargaining, insanity defnses, etc. But this system is still the only way to be sure that the right people are being punished. And even then, it fails. There have been cases where people were sentenced to death and executed, and where it later turned out that they hadn't done it. Can you imagine being sentenced to death and killed for something you didn't do? It's just better to err on the side of caution when it comes to killing people. That whole capital punishment thing is fucked up enough as it is.

[Ebby]

The first thing I thought of were Reavers.
Obviously, some Firefly Browncoats take sci-fi too seriously.

J/K What a freak.

[Ebby]

Double post.

[Moogs]

ghoti:

I understand the principle of what you're saying, and agree in theory. However, in certain situations, where much physical evidence exists (and often with a confession once said evidence is uncovered), who is paying for that trial and why? Exceptions could be written in to cover extraordinary circumstances like this, both to save taxpayer money, to save the family from undue grief in reliving the horrors, and to expedite the ultimate means of justice.

Obviously, multiple tiers of physical evidence and a confession would be minimum requirements. If a person has been caught red-handed, make a confession, and are not mentally retarded, in no way is a trial necessary IMO. The trick is not to avoid the special case but to shore up the evidence gathering and police interview process so that abuse is far less likely. If there's a system of checks and balances in how evidence is processed and confessions gathered, then you will get few if any cases where bogus evidence is planted and a confession coerced. That only happens when no one is watching law enforcement / questioning their professionalism, etc.

[ghoti]

I don't think that would work. You already name a few prerequisites (e.g., that the person be regarded sane) that would have to be verified by the court. This case seems to be fairly clear, and also the guy is white. The justice system in this country is not known for its color-blindness, though, and so in many other cases I would hesitate to ease the rules when it comes to the most severe punishment possible.

Besides, I always hear people talk about costs. Do the costs of capital punishment cases really make any difference in the budgets of the nation or a state? How much of our taxes pays for those? I don't believe that this is an item that is of any relevance. And even if, I'd rather pay that then have innocent people killed. I read a quote once that I really liked, though I don't remember who said it (and with tax day tomorrow/today, it's kind of fitting): I don't mind paying taxes, they buy me civilization. (edit: it was Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr)

[intlplby]

somewhere some part of me says that people should be objecting this much about any murder regardless of what the person plans to do once the victim is dead......

is he totally fucked in the head, yes..... but the worst part of this is taking another persons life..... nowadays many people don't even blink an eye when you hear about a murder........

the most despicable part is where the crime started..... what he does to her after she is dead is pales in comparison to the first crime in the series...... afterwards, a body is a body is a body is a body......

i suspect what is say may come across as just plain weird, but stand back and think about it for a second..... what is weirder, that i discount that the acts committed to to be committed on a dead body or that most people discount murders that occur everyday and go unnoticed

[scrouds]

The cheapest thing would be to not have a police force, not have courts, and forget something like justice ever existed. If you want justice, real justice, with a court that determines truly if people are guil or innocent, then pony up the dough. It's money well spent.

[Wickers]

Originally Posted by scrouds ...truly if people are guil or innocent, then pony up the dough. It's money well spent.

Sadly, no amount of money can fix the court system. There will always be mistakes, false-positives, and corruption. Good people will go to jail for crimes they have not committed, and evil people will still go un-punished. It's just the nature of beast.

At best, we can fix problems, plug holes, and clean up corruption... but it will never be 100% perfect.

And lastly, it's the fear of these ever growing problems that will actually cause more pain for the good people out there.

[intlplby]

the court system and corrections system are supposed to function as a deterrent more so than a justice seeking device

justice is a fairly relative term...

[Dave]

Originally Posted by turbulentfurball I'm guessing the defence will use some kind of insanity plea to try to get him out of it.

(This is directed towards the people who think insanity is a valid defense, not Turbulentfurball (unless he's one of them))

Oh yeah, that's what we want -- an insane murdering sicko wandering around. Nothing like a course of freshly raped neighborhood girl for dinner. But it's all ok cause he's insane.

Just kill the fucker so we can all stop worrying about it. Or offer him to some "enlightened" country for safe keeping if they're so against the death penalty. Maybe after he escapes and rapes/kills/rapes/eats a few of them they'll change their minds.

[Moogs]

Originally Posted by ghoti I don't think that would work. You already name a few prerequisites (e.g., that the person be regarded sane) that would have to be verified by the court.

Well, a day of "verifying in court" is a lot different than a drawn out trial where scumbag defense attorneys get to try every trick in the book to prove their clients innocent by reason of insanity, etc, NOT because there's any validity to the argument but because they want to win the case, for their own record / self-interest. That's what needs to stop.

I have no problem with a short court session to verify the evidence is legit, gather basic statements of record (witnessed confessions, etc). What I have a problem with is lawyers abusing the system to set someone free, all so they can put another notch on their post. It's a game to many of them. A game that dirtbags like this guy should never even get the chance to play. At most, once the basic evidentiary hearing is done, all this asshole should get is a day in court to determine his manner of death.

[Barto]

Would the defendant be allowed to appeal this? I mean, what's to stop a judge saying "he looks guilty to me, death/life for him!" in an "ordinary" murder trial?

Here's what it comes down to: who decides who gets a summary trial and Chinese/Soviet style bullet in the back of the head and who gets a proper trial?

[bassplayinMacFiend]

I find it amusing that people can say, "Murder is wrong, if you do it, we'll kill you for it."

Kinda hypocritical, isn't it?

Do I think this guy deserves death? If it was my girl he killed, I'd say of course. I don't know if there's a worse crime then killing a child.

intlplby,

You make a very good point. Once the girl is dead, her body is just a sack of meat. The act of killing the girl is the despicable part. There's no fixing dead.

[alcimedes]

Except there's a difference between just killing someone and mutilating the body of someone you killed.

Most people can understand killing someone, they can't understand raping their corpse.

[Barto]

Most people can't understand why you'd kill a 10 year old girl.

Also, mutilating a corpse might make it worse, but it's nowhere near as bad as the actual murder.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by Barto Here's what it comes down to: who decides who gets a summary trial and Chinese/Soviet style bullet in the back of the head and who gets a proper trial?

Me, of course. Everyone okay with that?

Originally Posted by Barto Also, mutilating a corpse might make it worse, but it's nowhere near as bad as the actual murder.

Maybe not, but it certainly adds to the stack of "this guy isn't fit to exist among civilized society" evidence. It's an extra half-a-bazillion years on his sentence. Don't want to be taking chances that he winds up living next to my sister or best friend in 15-20 years (after some pointyheaded chin-scratcher with an agenda deems him "cured" and recommends his release).

We've seen how iffy that has turned out on occasion.

[gar]

There is no fixing living people either.

[intlplby]

personally i don't think anyone charged and convicted of 1st degree murder should ever be allowed to parole.....

it's easier to parole for murder and rape than for non-violent offenses like drug possession in many cases.... that's ridiculous........ if we didn't spend so much trying to keep a pothead in jail, we could afford to keep murderers in jail where they belong