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chucker
 
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2020-11-07, 13:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
If your current one is still getting stuff done, I’d just wait. Define “pretty tough”. Is it literally unable to perform without overheating, crashes/freeze-ups, error messages all day, super out-of-date on OS or other software ability, hard drive acting flaky, etc.?
I usually buy a new MacBook every four years (iBook in 2002, MacBooks Pro in 2006, 2010, 2014) — but this time, I haven't yet. Part of it is the butterfly keyboard, and the 2016 generation being a bummer in several other ways (which is in part Intel's fault). So, six and a half years in, I would kind of need a new one.

My current one has a battery that needs to be serviced (which, fair, but also that doesn't seem to make much sense any more?), and has bouts where it crashes several times a day. I'm not entirely sure why.

Failing all else, I'll probably get a refurb of the late-2019 16-inch, which is pretty good. But I haven't lost hope that they'll do one last Intel offering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
My big question/interest in all this is pricing. I don’t think it’ll be anything huge, either way, but what’s the general opinion on Apple bringing this part of the work in-house?

Do Macs come down a bit (over time, if not right away), or do they use the opportunity to justify a $100-200 hike (more as you get into the higher-end models) due to any performance/power management gains?
I suppose they might make the entry-level ones cheaper (given how similar they'll be to the iPad Pro, it kind of makes sense for the prices to be more in line, too).

But I think if prices do "change", it'll be something you can't really objectively prove. For example, the new 16-inch MacBook Pro could start at $1799 or $1999 again but without a discreet GPU. Is that really a price change, or is it a result of not having been able to offer such a model with Intel? Likewise, if there's a new 12-inch MacBook or MacBook Air at $999 rather than $1499, again, part of that is because Intel's CPUs for it were both expensive and also so slow Apple just discontinued it altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I’m not really worried about the performance, battery life, general specs/numbers (Apple wouldn’t be doing all this if the didn’t think they could make an impact and match, if not surpass, their current supplier).
Yep.
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kscherer
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2020-11-11, 12:21

The M1 is now a real thing. I'm going to leave this thread open since there is clearly going to be a lot of development on this front for years to come. For M1 discussion, please take it on over to the M1 thread.

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turtle
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2020-11-11, 13:40

Does this mean we can talk about M1x here? I mean... it isn't M1.
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kscherer
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2020-11-11, 18:24

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Frank777
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2020-11-11, 20:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
Does this mean we can talk about M1x here? I mean... it isn't M1.
I don't understand how the nomenclature for Apple Silicon works yet, but this idea of M1x isn't it.

The chip for low end devices is the M1. I assume the next version of the low end Mac, a la iPhone, will be called M2.

M1x sounds like it's a derivative of the M1 chip, not a separate Pro version. I would think the Pro chips would require their own designation, like MX1.
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drewprops
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2020-11-11, 23:31

So will the 16" Macbook Pros just get an M1 when they are released in March?


...
  quote
709
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2020-11-12, 11:35

Looking through the specs on these 3 M1 Macs, I noticed that they all have USB4/TB3 ports, but the specs say "• Thunderbolt 3 (up to 40Gb/s) • USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10Gb/s)". So it's not USB4 (which is up to 40Gb/s)? Are TB3 and USB4 the same thing now? *confused*

So it goes.
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kscherer
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2020-11-12, 11:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
So will the 16" Macbook Pros just get an M1 when they are released in March?


...
I doubt it. I suspect Apple has a "Pro" version of the M1. Frank777 may be correct that there will be an MX1, but I think the iPad lineup tells the story: There is "A" and there is "Ax". If Apple follows protocol, then M1x is the thing. Yes, it will be a derivative of the M1. More CPU cores? More GPU cores? 2 chips on one board, each with their own DRAM?

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
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Dr. Bobsky
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2020-11-12, 12:06

Wasn't there a hint that they need to work on interactions with 3rd party gpu manufactures for the higher end laptops?
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-12, 12:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
So will the 16" Macbook Pros just get an M1 when they are released in March?


...
They're getting the G5. Keep up.
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kscherer
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2020-11-12, 12:55

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chucker
 
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2020-11-12, 14:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Looking through the specs on these 3 M1 Macs, I noticed that they all have USB4/TB3 ports, but the specs say "• Thunderbolt 3 (up to 40Gb/s) • USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10Gb/s)". So it's not USB4 (which is up to 40Gb/s)? Are TB3 and USB4 the same thing now? *confused*
USB4 is sort of Thunderbolt 3 lite, as I understand it.

(It's interesting that there's no 3.2 Gen 2x 20 Gb/s support, though. Good lord, these versions are stupid.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
I doubt it. I suspect Apple has a "Pro" version of the M1. Frank777 may be correct that there will be an MX1, but I think the iPad lineup tells the story: There is "A" and there is "Ax". If Apple follows protocol, then M1x is the thing. Yes, it will be a derivative of the M1. More CPU cores? More GPU cores? 2 chips on one board, each with their own DRAM?
Yeah. Almost certainly more cores.

I'm guessing it'll have features the M1 lacks, like support for separate RAM chips. I don't think putting 64 GiB on the SoC is feasible. Putting 1.5 TiB on it like on the Mac Pro? Surely not. So at some point, they need a way for external RAM expansion — but they had no reason to ship that feature for these low-end Macs.

Given that they didn't call it the M14, it might not actually be in sync with the annual releases. So we could see an M2 in spring or summer.
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PB PM
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2020-11-12, 23:07

USB4 is not thunderbolt, and there are multiple versions, just like 3.x. Yeah it's just USB3 renamed to 4, with one version supporting thunderbolt 3 tech. They should have just left all the older stuff on USB3.x and kept USB4 for the Thunderbolt 3 like stuff, so stupid. It's not really thunderbolt though, because it is using copper wire, not fiber.
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drewprops
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2020-11-13, 00:33

My first Intel iMac was a CoreDuo.

I think that by the next year they were shipping the Core2Duo.

So maybe the M1 to M2 could be quick?

Time will tell how fast Apple is with their numbering system.

...
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chucker
 
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2020-11-13, 02:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
USB4 is not thunderbolt, and there are multiple versions, just like 3.x. Yeah it's just USB3 renamed to 4, with one version supporting thunderbolt 3 tech.
Yes, and when Apple says "Thunderbolt / USB4", they clearly mean the version of USB4 that does support Thunderbolt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
It's not really thunderbolt though, because it is using copper wire, not fiber.
Almost no Thunderbolt cables actually use fiber.

Last edited by chucker : 2020-11-13 at 08:53.
  quote
drewprops
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2020-11-13, 08:01

MacRumors has an article comparing the Intel Mac Mini and the M1 version and it is exactly the sort of mixed bag that I was afraid we would encounter, where pro users are likely to be driven toward the Intel model in the short term (for instance, the need for more RAM). The comparison fuels my own worry that Apple's Intel machines will experience a shorter life span.


...
  quote
turtle
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2020-11-13, 08:48

You know, it could be as simple as a server like set up with more CPU sockets. Dual M1s is better! Each with it's own 16GB of RAM... but cause you still won't be able to upgrade that.

Really though, the idea of adding a second CPU makes sense. It might be the route they take but I have a feeling it will be something more in the specific chip that is upgraded rather than stacking chips.

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chucker
 
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2020-11-13, 08:56

I don't think we'll see a multi-CPU-socket Mac again in the foreseeable future.
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Frank777
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2020-11-14, 02:11

No rumors seem to be popping up on when the next round of releases will happen.

We know we're done for the year ("One More Thing"), and I guess the question becomes whether next they choose to complete the low-end transition (removing *most* of the Intel options with higher spec Apple Silicon versions) or begin the higher end transition with AS versions of the 16" MacBook Pro, 24" & larger iMacs, and the (smaller) Mac Pro.

After the New Year passes, Apple's window for Mac releases is usually March, right?
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drewprops
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2020-11-14, 11:40

Actually I did see a rumor this morning that suggested the 16" model would show up in the next 2 or 3 weeks, but I'm not holding my breath.


...

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pscates2.0
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-14, 11:57

That one's tough to believe...they surely would've announced it the other day, with all the rest.

2-3 months? I can maybe buy that (February-March of 2021). But I think the lineup - including Macs - is set for the year, heading into the holidays.

They wouldn't update the two lower-end 13" models, along with the 16"...and then leave those two upper-end 13" models (the $1,799 and $1,999 ones with 16GB RAM) untouched, would they?

And if it was their goal to update the entire lineup of MacBook Pros, then that surely would've been part of this past Tuesday's event...at only 45 minutes, they definitely had time to squeeze in another 5-10 minutes to talk about the M1-based 16" model.

I think the upper-end, more powerful/beefier Macs (those higher 13" models, the 16", iMac and Mac Pro) all come throughout 2021, and maybe even a bit into 2022 if WWDC's "two year" prediction is true. They might surprise everyone and transition everything by this time next year? Didn't they complete the PPC-to-Intel transition a little sooner than expected?

Did you mean to type 2-3 months?

My honest gut feeling is that when the 16" comes at some point in 2021, it will be accompanied by a redesign...along with the 13" models, which means it may be well into summer/fall of 2021, since these lower-end 13" models, with no redesign, were just announced. I don't think they'll want to have part of the lineup still on the old design/new architecture, with the other half with new, different design/new architecture.

I'm betting within a year from now, the entire MacBook Pro lineup gets a simultaneous overhaul/release...new 14" (heavily rumored, aligning with how the 15" went to 16") models and the 16"...all M1-based, of course, and sporting a redesign (although, as with the iMac, it's hard to imagine what they'd do since they've got it distilled own to such a simple, minimalist design at this point...they're not going to start adding gratuitous swoops, curves, etc., so "redesign" might simply mean a bit thinner, and maybe a new hinging design and corner radius/edge tweaks? It's pretty much a dialed-in, perfect design as is, IMO. I don't think the MacBook Pro will ever get the stylish wedge look because that cuts into the guts needed to earn the "Pro" moniker, so I just imagine this simple, minimalist sliver of aluminum for some time to come.

They'll want those "light, thin and powerful" bragging rights, even if Ive has left the building.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-11-14 at 12:11.
  quote
Frank777
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2020-11-14, 19:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
My first Intel iMac was a CoreDuo.

I think that by the next year they were shipping the Core2Duo.

So maybe the M1 to M2 could be quick?

Time will tell how fast Apple is with their numbering system.

...
Yeah, the CoreDuo to Core2Duo transition was really fast, as was the switch from the Yikes to Sawtooth G4 Power Mac motherboards.

The common thing with both transitions? I got left behind in both of them.
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Frank777
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2020-11-15, 00:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
2-3 months? I can maybe buy that (February-March of 2021). But I think the lineup - including Macs - is set for the year, heading into the holidays.
Yeah, Apple's got some time. Adobe and Microsoft's codebase - actually everybody's codebase - is fairly new after the last several annual OS updates cleaned out old APIs.
So we won't see major delays for almost anybody who matters.

But Office and Creative Cloud are probably going to be early 2021 releases, which will fit nicely with new Pros in February or March.
  quote
drewprops
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2020-11-15, 01:35

Yes, the article I saw speculated that the 16 could come in a matter of weeks. Since this isn't our first BBQ, I rolled my eyes and guessed that March AT THE EARLIEST, since the rumors of MacBook Pros with Micro LED screens have been popping off all year. By extrapolation of experience, there's probably a good chance that we'll see at least one final Intel-based MacBook Pro 16" model.

There's a lot of discussion about the M1 models lacking the ability to work with an external Graphics Processing Unit like the current Intel MacBook Pro models can do.

If they truly intend for there to be a laptop aimed at professionals, these issues probably need to be addressed.




...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
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Frank777
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2020-11-15, 02:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
There's a lot of discussion about the M1 models lacking the ability to work with an external Graphics Processing Unit like the current Intel MacBook Pro models can do.

If they truly intend for there to be a laptop aimed at professionals, these issues probably need to be addressed.

...
It's probably just Apple's way of segmenting the Consumer vs Pro lines. Making eGPUs a Pro feature.

I mean, the AS Mac Mini Geekbench scores are 1682/7097.

The crazy expensive Mac Pro clocks in at 1024/8010.




Two things:

1. Apple needs to protect its Professional lines from the newly-powerful consumer models.
2. The 2021 Pro line reveal is going to be fun.
  quote
drewprops
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2020-11-22, 16:11

Who expects for Apple to eschew current GPUs in favor of their own in-house (G series?) graphics silicon?


...
  quote
Frank777
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2020-11-22, 16:29

They might hold that for the second round. Makes sense to make sure the A-chip transition is done first.

If they want to have fun, they can upgrade the AppleTV with the new chip and a new console-class GPU that rivals the PS5.

It's a hobby, right? Let's have fun with it.
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drewprops
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2020-11-22, 18:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
It's a hobby, right? Let's have fun with it.


Hallelujah!

...
  quote
pscates2.0
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2020-11-22, 19:00

I think forward to just one short year from now - the week leading up to Thanksgiving 2021 (assuming, of course, that bastard virus hasn't killed half the planet and whoever's left is playing Road Warrior in the desert) - and I like what crosses my mind.

I think easily by this time next year, we'll have just about every Mac most people actually care about/buy/use (the entire MacBook Pro and iMac lines, and maybe even Rev. B updates to the stuff unveiled the other week?) all doing their thing to everyone's liking. They knocked out the easier, consumer-friendly things first for various reasons, but you know they're not going to put out iMacs or the upper-end 13" MBP (or 16" model) that are, in any way, less-than to what's shipping now.

You know good and well they've got crazy, scary stuff running in their labs as we speak, and they can't wait to put it out into the world in the coming 12 months.

They would not even be doing this if they knew the leaps weren't going to be huge, especially for those looking to drop $1,500-3,000 (or more) on a Mac.

We've just scratched the surface and my confidence, and anticipation, is through the roof. They're not going to go through all this effort, and waste their time, for "yeah, well it's a little better than the current iMacs and 16" MacBook Pro...".

No.
  quote
drewprops
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2020-11-24, 00:51

More speculation....


https://www.techradar.com/news/apple...o-16-inch-2021

...
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