[Windswept]

We may have covered this topic before; but since we've probably acquired 5,000 new members since then, I suppose we could have another go.

There are various charts on birth order characteristics. The one linked below looked pretty good to me. After you have looked at it, perhaps you could give your thoughts wrt *any* of the following questions, OR just your thoughts in general wrt to the chart contents or the concept of birth order itself.

Thanks for any replies.


Questions

1) Do the traits seem fairly accurate to you, as applied to the siblings in *your* family?

2) Were you (or a sibling) negatively or positively affected in some way because of your birth order? In what way (if that isn't too personal a question)?

3) Do you think it would be helpful if parents were made aware of these traits ahead of time, so they could take steps to prevent the more negative possibilities from coming to fruition with their own children?

4) As a *tangent topic*, should parents be required to take some kind of instruction in child-rearing as part of the pre-natal process through doctors' offices, clinics or hospitals? Or would such a requirement seem authoritarian and smacking of "big brother" to you? Just wondering.

http://www.childdevelopmentinfo.com/...irth_order.htm

[Wrao]

I'm the second to youngest with 5 siblings. Whatever traits may be a result of that are far more complicated than that site suggests.

[Quagmire]

Holy shitzer! Yep. Thats pretty accurate. Except for," Behaves like only child. Feels every one bigger and more capable," and, "Expects others to do things, make decisions, take responsibility."

2) For the people who follow my threads in the you know where, this question is already answered.

3) no

4) no.

[alcimedes]

I'd say those traits are way off.

I was never in a race with my older sibling. I let her do her thing, and I did mine. As for "may be rebel", that's more a factor of being constantly bored as a kid and trying to find ways to entertain myself than anything to do with my sister.

Of coures, they didn't have that much for the second child, I'm not sure I'd also fall under "youngest child" if I'm the youngest of two.

I'd also say that a lot of the descriptions listed are like horoscopes. They're written such that it's all encompassing and easy to read and say "yeah, that's me!".

[billybobsky]

I am a middle of three...

I am the least spoiled, my siblings never were forced to understand our parent's financial situation, and its acute reality has changed my perception of my parents from parents to monetary parasites. I am currently attempting to get them to pay me back for a car loan I took out for them. Like that will ever happen.

On the other hand, they will buy my older sister anything she asks for; even though she has just moved back home with the promise of getting a job, that certainly hasn't happened, and my parents are flowering her with clothing and other goods just to keep her happy.

Argh!

[Windswept]

First child = Windswept:

~ Is only child for period of time; used to being center
of attention. (This was definitely true for me.)

~ Believes must gain and hold superiority over other children. (Nah, don't think this one really holds true, though maybe just a smidgeon. )

~ Being right (When I was a teenager and had disagreements with my mom, I always felt that I was *right* in every instance. But then, of course, I WAS! Haha. )

~ controlling often important. (I like to do *what* I want to do, *when* I want to do it. Yeah, I can compromise, of *course*. But I'd rather not, if at all possible. )

~ May respond to birth of second child by feeling unloved and neglected. (I think I was emotionally traumatized at age four by the birth of my brother. I was suddenly bereft of all the attention and love I had been getting, and I didn't understand *why*. My mother didn't handle this well at all, I'm afraid; and as a result I acquired a truckload of insecurities. *sigh*

~ Strives to keep or regain parents' attention through conformity.
If this failed, chooses to misbehave. (I think I misbehaved quite a bit as a little girl. And I *still* do! )

~ May develop competent, responsible behavior or become very discouraged. (Definitely the former.)

~ Sometime strives to protect and help others. (I continually try to protect and help my brother - though I think he secretly hates me at least 65% of the time. )

~ Strives to please (Well, yeah. I never wanted to disappoint my dad, for example. eek! )

I think I would have been an incredibly secure person had my mom handled the effect of my brother's birth better. But he contracted dust pneumonia twice (West Texas) before he was a year old, so he *had* to get massive amounts of attention.

Had my mom *not* spoiled me so much to begin with, it might not have been so bad. But she did, so it was.

BUT... that's life, right? One must rise above this stuff and take control of one's destiny. It just took me the longest time to realize that I was a spoiled brat. I am sure that I still am. *sigh* But, hey, I'm workin' on it, okay?

[mattf]

Originally Posted by mattf - Feels unfairly treated when doesn't get own way. May refuse to cooperate. OK, this is just silly. I'm not playing anymore.

Thanks for all the humor in your reply, Matt.

It was fun to read.

Edit: Um... Sorry, everyone, but I seem to have screwed up Matt's post. I meant to click 'quote', but must have clicked 'edit' instead. As a result, his nice humorous post is gone. I just can't believe I did that. Feel free to let fly with a profusion of slings and arrows. I deserve every bit of abuse you can dish out. *slinks away in mortification*

[Ebby]

First Child:

No, no, no, no, no, yes, maybe, yes!

Way off for me.

[Bryson]

Yep, nowhere near for me, either. Perhaps because although I'm the youngest, there's 7 years between me and the next oldest.

Hmmm....

[kieran]

Originally Posted by billybobsky I am a middle of three... I am the least spoiled, my siblings never were forced to understand our parent's financial situation, and its acute reality has changed my perception of my parents from parents to monetary parasites. I am currently attempting to get them to pay me back for a car loan I took out for them. Like that will ever happen. On the other hand, they will buy my older sister anything she asks for; even though she has just moved back home with the promise of getting a job, that certainly hasn't happened, and my parents are flowering her with clothing and other goods just to keep her happy. Argh!

I'm the same way, middle child of three. My sister has gotten pretty much anything she's ever asked for and my younger brother is 18 and still has yet to get his first job. I started worked at 15 and haven't really gotten money from my parents since.

I've also gotten to know exactly what situation my parents are in regarding finances. The other two just get what they want, but I actually know the details of their situation and don't ask for much. (I guess it also helps that I'm going to be an accountant and they come to me with questions)

But I agree with you all the way billybobsky

[curiousuburb]

1) Missing a few points... (and as noted by alcimedes, seem written pretty generically in a horoscope kind of way... vague enough for everybody to claim some parts in each column/sign apply to them, but not specific or accurate enough to add much value other than stating the obvious generalization). Lots of crossover and wiggle room makes for poor predictive value.

2) Yes and No.
I'd add that eldest kids seem to be the guinea pig... the test case for rules, restrictions, bedtimes, etc.

Middle kids often get the pendulum the other way and get alternate rules, bedtimes, etc as parents try to find the optimum mix.

I was eldest, and my sister was youngest, so I certainly felt like she got the lenient version of all the conditions I'd test driven.

3) I think many parents have some clue about these generalizations already but that it isn't the only factor. In addition, I think parents bring some of their own birth order and their own childhood/family experiences forward, in many cases reacting against or to the way they were raised.

My Dad was an only child, and my Mom was a middle, which might impact the choices a kid makes in which parent might "be the softie" and which is strict, but might also be reversed. It might be interesting to track marriages of two eldest, or two youngest, or various combinations to see if there were a pattern in their kids compared to the 'good cop/bad cop' blend of many parents.

I suspect that strict disciplinarian parents (40s/50s) sometimes end up with very liberal hippie children (60s/70s) as a function of the pendulum effect where the kids say "I'm not going to make the mistakes my parents made with me... I want to show emotion and love that I was deprived of". Similarly, I suspect there are now ex-hippie parents who wish they added more discipline in their spoiled children. Pendulum.

I would guess that these generational pendulum factors might bring as much to childrearing attitudes as birth order. More knowledge about this might be useful, but I don't know if it can overcome the institutional resistance or long-standing determination of parents to follow or fight the trends they remember.

4) Do I think potential parents should be required to take a class? Hell... I think they should have to pass a test before breeding.

You must be at least ˆ¯¯this high¯¯ˆ to go on this ride.

[DMBand0026]

DMBand0026 = Middle child. Three children in family, all three boys.


Has neither rights of oldest nor privileges of youngest. Feels life is unfair.

This is true, to a point. Although I don't really feel life is unfair, life is just what you make it to be. If you catch a bad break, pick yourself up and do something about it, don't wait for your next break, make it happen. My older brother certainly had more rights while living at home than I did, and my younger brother is still treated like the baby, even at 16 years old, that mentality will never really wear off.


Feels unloved, left out, "squeezed."

Yes, and no. I don't feel unloved, but frequently left out and sometimes squeezed. I feel like my parents would have gone out of their way to do some things for my brothers that they wouldn't have tried as hard to do for me, but I always felt loved.


Feels doesn't have place in family.

I get this feeling pretty often actually. I'm very different from the rest of my family in a lot of ways. I'm more successful financially at this point than my brother who is three years my elder, and my younger brother is lazy and somewhat expectant of other people and still very naive. I was always more independent than my brothers (who were both pretty dependent on my parents), so after a while that was the expectation of me, that I would be independent, which carried over into more responsibility.


Becomes discouraged and "problem child" or elevates self by pushing down other siblings.

Not true at all. It's almost impossible to discourage me, I've been taken down before, but not without a heck of a fight. That's just part of my personality. I've done a lot of things that I probably shouldn't have , but nothing that I ever got caught (read: arrested) for. I like to have fun, and being that I'm young and stupid, I do things that a stupid young person should do, and I enjoy them quite a bit, but a problem child...no way. I wasn't disciplined a lot as a kid, simply because it wasn't necessary. Sometimes I have trouble getting along with my younger brother, but for the most part I have a solid relationship with both my siblings.


Is adaptable. Learns to deal with both oldest and youngest sibling.

I'm very adaptable, again, that's part of my personality. I'm very laid back, I go with the flow and roll with the punches. It takes a lot to shake me up, it takes even more to make me angry or upset. I'm passionate about a few things that can get me rattled pretty quickly, but I know how to control myself. I don't just deal with my siblings, I manage to get along with them quite well.

[mattf]

Originally Posted by mattf Originally Posted by mattf - Feels unfairly treated when doesn't get own way. May refuse to cooperate. OK, this is just silly. I'm not playing anymore. Thanks for all the humor in your reply, Matt. It was fun to read. Edit: Um... Sorry, everyone, but I seem to have screwed up Matt's post. I meant to click 'quote', but must have clicked 'edit' instead. As a result, his nice humorous post is gone. I just can't believe I did that. Feel free to let fly with a profusion of slings and arrows. I deserve every bit of abuse you can dish out. *slinks away in mortification*

*wanders into thread*
*wonders why I'm praising myself*
*sees edit from Windswept*
*sees new private message from Windswept*
*goes to bed muttering something about "Bloody moderators"*

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by mattf *wanders into thread* *wonders why I'm praising myself* *sees edit from Windswept* *sees new private message from Windswept* *goes to bed muttering something about "Bloody moderators"*

Waaah...

I saw that this thread was languishing on page two... and I was glad. I was hoping that no one would notice what I had done; that the thread would die an untimely death and slip into oblivion. But no.

You *would* get up and find the hash I made of your post, Matt. Why couldn't you have gone on holiday or something between yesterday and today?

Okay, I'm grovelling here! Can't you forgive me? Pleeeease...

I attribute my error to insufficient infusion of coffee. Life cannot proceed safely unless at least two cups have been consumed. *sigh*

[mattf]

Originally Posted by Windswept Okay, I'm grovelling here! Can't you forgive me? Pleeeease...

Hmmmm.......

[BuonRotto]

OK, I am the co-youngest in a family of six including both parents. I am the only boy though. therefore:

Youngest child:

Develops feelings of inferiority or becomes "speeder" and overtakes older siblings.

Check.

Behaves like only child. Feels every one bigger and more capable.

Maybe.

Becomes boss of family in getting service and own way.

My sisters would probably say so though I disagree.

Only child:

Is center of attention; often enjoys position. May feel special.

Probably.

May have poor peer relations as child but better relations as adult.

Fairly true. Never quite the social leper, but never fit in either.

Creative.

Hell, yes!

May have striving characteristics of oldest and inadequacy feelings and demands of youngest.

Yep.

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by mattf Hmmmm.......

Okay, *that* was funny. Hee.

I swear to god, you guys are *all* just incorrigible !

Thanks for putting me in a good mood again.

But still, I really did *love* your post.

*sigh*

*mourns*

Oh well, life goes on.

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by Windswept ~ Sometime strives to protect and help others. (I continually try to protect and help my brother - though I think he secretly hates me at least 65% of the time. )

Had dinner with my brother last night and we had a great time.

I finally realized that when he is happy with his life, he is able to care about me and enjoy my company.

Only when he is discontented does resentment toward 'me' appear to rise up within him.

I was a high-achiever in high school and college. My brother grew up as a second child who *never* felt he could win the race with his older sibling, so he didn't even try.

I think being a second child greatly impacted his entire life, and 'not' in a positive way.

I read elsewhere that if the second child feels he has a chance of winning the race with the older sibling, *he* will often become the over-achiever. If there's virtually 'no' chance of winning, he will become an 'under' achiever.

I think birth order can be *extremely* important in people's lives.

[709]

Originally Posted by Windswept I was a high-achiever in high school and college. My brother grew up as a second child who *never* felt he could win the race with his older sibling, so he didn't even try.

I'm the eldest of 2 sons, and this bit rang a little too true for me. I was always an A student without much effort, but my brother really struggled to keep his grades at a C average. What made it even worse is that my father developed some awful scheme of report-card monetary reward to try to get my brother to 'do better'. Terrible idea. I felt sick the first time I got my handful of cash while my brother barely broke even. He grew up heavy while I was trim, my elementary school wanted me to skip grades while they talked about holding him back, I would get praise and and he would get a talking-to. Ugh. As a result I grew up being very protective of him.

Then (in hindsight) a wonderful thing happened. At 15 I was picked as the representative from our school for an exchange program. I was literally on the other side of the planet for an entire year. When I came back, he was strong and fit, had a lovely girlfriend, was popular in his crowd of peers, and best of all he was very, very happy to see me.

We're better friends and closer now than we ever were as children, and I attribute a lot of that to each of us having time away from each other to grow into our own.

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by 709 Then (in hindsight) a wonderful thing happened. At 15 I was picked as the representative from our school for an exchange program. I was literally on the other side of the planet for an entire year. When I came back, he was strong and fit, had a lovely girlfriend, was popular in his crowd of peers, and best of all he was very, very happy to see me.

Wow. That's *so* interesting.

Something similar with my brother. I was good in school. He struggled continually. Turned out, he was dyslexic; but that wasn't discovered until he was in 8th grade! *sigh*

Plus, his reading difficulties were compounded by the fact that we moved to Mexico when he was 3, and once he got to school (and was trying to learn to read), the morning sessions were taught in English, the afternoon sessions were taught in Spanish, and he would get the two languages confused. Because of this, when we got back to the States, he ended up being held back in 1st grade. Poor thing.

Frankly, I don't know if he *ever* had a happy time like 'your' brother.

As an adult, I now suffer *horrible* guilts about just ordinary childhood conflicts he and I had, because I can see now that he really couldn't afford even the most minor extra miseries that siblings can visit upon each other.

I guess that's why now I am always there to help smooth his way whenever I can.

[GSpotter]

Originally Posted by Windswept I read elsewhere that if the second child feels he has a chance of winning the race with the older sibling, *he* will often become the over-achiever. If there's virtually 'no' chance of winning, he will become an 'under' achiever.

I do have a (6 years) older brother. Looking back, I think he paved the way for me in many ways. He had more struggles and confrontations with my parents than me. He was more the rebel and I the counter-balance. Once, my mother told me I was so suspiciously quit as a child that she feared I would 'exlode' one day and become a terrorist or something.

My parents tried very hard to treat us both similar, e.g. when one of us needed money the other one got the same amount etc. Fortunately, my parents didn't try to put us both in the same direction - we are very different in character: My brother didn't like high school, so he became a carpenter, whereas I went to university and studied computer science - so from a monetarian point of view, I'm the over-achiever. On the other hand: He has three fine kids and recently started a small business as a catering service (grilling suckling pigs on-site at the customer) besides his job, so I wouldn't call this 'under-achievement'

I think the birth order characteristics can be very much influenced by other boundary conditions (behaviour of your parents etc.)