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Can we talk about DVR / PVR stuff for a minute?
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Anthem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2006-04-21, 20:04

No real solid recent rumors, beyond the low-level rumors of a MediaMini that were big a while back.

There's a product that just about every Mac owner would buy, that's easy to make, that could sell right now. The product is an Airport Video. Hauppage has had a similar product out for a little while now: http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/produ..._mediamvp.html

Hauppage's software is total crap, but third-party programs like SageTV and GBPVR use the hardware flawlessly. It seems like it would be a piece of cake to fit something like this into frontrow, so that your mac could stay in the back room and a tiny little box hooks up to your entertainment center to stream video wirelessly.

What's holding something like this back? It seems like a no-brainer. Why build a Media Center when you could just stream the content from the office?
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Anthem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2006-04-21, 20:07

Coupled with an external plextor and an external hard drive, the Mac Mini would be all the media center you'd ever need.

http://www.plextor.com/english/produ...lm=TD497LL%2FA
http://www.plextor.com/english/products/TV402UMac.htm
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hiltond
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Join Date: Aug 2005
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2006-04-21, 20:12

I can't seem to get your top link to work. What was it?

The problem for me is ir blasters. Most of the ones I've seen aren't that good. Cablecard is promising, but I see too much feet draging on it.
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Kickaha
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2006-04-21, 20:13

Cue groverat...
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Ebby
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2006-04-21, 20:22

You may want to check out the Elgato EyeHome device. It is the mac equivalent of your Hauppage thingy.

If you have the EyeConnect software, I believe you could also use a Roku Photobridge (HD Capable) to access music, photos, and movies from your Mac.

^^ One more quality post from the desk of Ebby. ^^
SSBA | SmockBogger | SporkNET
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Anthem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2006-04-21, 22:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiltond
I can't seem to get your top link to work. What was it?
Was supposed to be a LaClie external hard drive / port replicator that sits under a Mac Mini.
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Anthem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2006-04-21, 22:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebby
You may want to check out the Elgato EyeHome device. It is the mac equivalent of your Hauppage thingy.
Yeah, I hadn't seen that. It's the right idea, although a $200 price tag is a bit much for what is essentially a simple media extender.
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2006-04-21, 22:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthem
What's holding something like this back?
You mean from being made by Apple? Maybe the fact that Apple wants to appease the television executives and the presence of a device that will easily copy and share videos might make them uneasy.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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Anthem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2006-04-22, 01:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
You mean from being made by Apple? Maybe the fact that Apple wants to appease the television executives and the presence of a device that will easily copy and share videos might make them uneasy.
I hadn't thought about that... a decent point.

Still, it seems like that's an easy conversation to have. It doesn't copy media, it just streams it. Yeah, the MPAA/RIAA/TV folks are a bunch of tech morons, but surely they'd understand that difference.
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Brad
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2006-04-22, 01:21

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthem
It doesn't copy media, it just streams it.
Digital streaming does, by definition, create a copy of the data. It's up to the receiving device to decide whether or not to store it in some way beyond some temporary cache.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthem
Yeah, the MPAA/RIAA/TV folks are a bunch of tech morons, but surely they'd understand that difference.
Morons? Don't let your prejudice and hate for the RIAA and MPAA cloud your judgement. The *AA are constantly working to redefine copyright law (and how it can be restricted by various technological means) and they are being very smart about it.

They understand the difference, but they also understand the point I just made above. Also, keep in mind that the *AA have been working to remove consumers' ability (right?) to record and timeshift content in the first place. Have you not heard about all the broadcast flag legislation and efforts to plug the analog hole?

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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MINK
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
 
2006-04-22, 06:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Morons? ... keep in mind that the *AA have been working to remove consumers' ability (right?) to record and timeshift content in the first place. Have you not heard about all the broadcast flag legislation and efforts to plug the analog hole?
all that sounds pretty moronic to me.
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sunrain
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Portlandia
 
2006-04-22, 06:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by MINK
all that sounds pretty moronic to me.
They might be incredibly evil and duplicitous, but the RIAA and MPAA aren't stupid. They're being very smart about coming up with ways for the consumer to lose fair-use rights.

"What a computer is to me is it's the most remarkable tool that we've ever come up with, and it's the equivalent of a bicycle for our minds."
- Steve Jobs
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hiltond
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2006-04-22, 08:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by MINK
all that sounds pretty moronic to me.

I agree. I was wondering if young couples not having tv is becoming a trend. More and more often I see people who have physical units, but no way to recieve broadcasts. The ones I know said it was hard to get used to, but now they like not having tv.

It seems to me if you make money from advertising, like televison execs do, youd be best to focus on increasing your audience and creating a more compelling user experience. Other wise people may find something else to do.

For example, posting messages to strangers.
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dfiler
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
 
2006-04-22, 09:49

Count me as one of those people who no longer subscribe to anything like cable or satellite television. I've paid for both in the past but it is simply an inferior product by today's standards and I choose to spend my money elsewhere.

They want me to watch content on their schedule? They've got to be kidding. I've got a terrabyte array filled with content to watch on my schedule. It's available instantly and conveniently from any display in my house. If they'd sell that content to me with what I consider to be reasonable distribution and licensing, we'd both be happy.

But right now, it seems that the video-content industry is headed down the same pathetic and self-destructive path that the music industry stumbled down. All they have to do is sell television and movie downloads at a decent resolution and they'd have a profitable and sustainable business model.

Until then... there's always bittorrents. When they wake up, i'll be there with my wallet open.
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dfiler
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Join Date: May 2004
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2006-04-22, 09:49

Count me as one of those people who no longer subscribe to anything like cable or satellite television. I've paid for both in the past but it is simply an inferior product by today's standards and I choose to spend my money elsewhere.

They want me to watch content on their schedule? They've got to be kidding. I've got a terrabyte array filled with content to watch on my schedule. It's available instantly and conveniently from any display in my house. If they'd sell that content to me with what I consider to be reasonable distribution and licensing, we'd both be happy.

But right now, it seems that the video-content industry is headed down the same pathetic and self-destructive path that the music industry stumbled down. All they have to do is sell television and movie downloads at a decent resolution and they'd have a profitable and sustainable business model.

Until then... there's always bittorrents. When they wake up, i'll be there with my wallet open.
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Ghost2
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
 
2006-04-22, 10:32

I agree with Brad. It would be almost impossible for apple to produce a dvd because of the tv shows being sold on itunes. You wouldn't want to buy shows from itunes for 2 bucks f you could just record them for free. That would make apple lose money and the network execs would quickly pull their shows off itunes.
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MINK
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
 
2006-04-22, 10:52

the RIAA might be clever at manipulating politics and the law but that doesn't mean they're not morons. The idea of trying to sustain an industry by locking down things the customers want to do is moronic, however "cleverly" you attempt to do that.
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macleod
Now in lower-case™!
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
 
2006-04-22, 13:01

Is the plextor converter thing better then the elgato eyetv 200 or 250? I had never even seen or heard of it before.
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sunrain
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Portlandia
 
2006-04-22, 15:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by MINK
the RIAA might be clever at manipulating politics and the law but that doesn't mean they're not morons. The idea of trying to sustain an industry by locking down things the customers want to do is moronic, however "cleverly" you attempt to do that.
I may not agree with their business practices, but the RIAA/MPAA have no incentive to change until it hits them in the pocketbook or in law.

...which is why I love the EFF.

"What a computer is to me is it's the most remarkable tool that we've ever come up with, and it's the equivalent of a bicycle for our minds."
- Steve Jobs
  quote
Anthem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2006-04-23, 23:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by MACleod
Is the plextor converter thing better then the elgato eyetv 200 or 250? I had never even seen or heard of it before.
Go with the plextor. It's a good brand, the software is the same, and you can plug it into either a PC or a Mac.

The biggest thing, though, is it's a MUCH better hardware product for a better price than the comparable Elgato machine. Frex, the Plextor handles MP4 hardware encoding, which is pretty nice. It handles hardware DivX encoding, which is even nicer.

Last edited by Anthem : 2006-04-23 at 23:30.
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Anthem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2006-04-23, 23:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Morons? Don't let your prejudice and hate for the RIAA and MPAA cloud your judgement.
I'm only prejudiced against stupid people.

Seriously, the *AA are stupid in everything except legal matters. They've got terrible business practices and their tech advisors aren't worth anything, but they have the best lawyers money can buy.

Just look at the whole HDMI debacle. It's going to be cracked before it even hits the street. Watch the video from the panel at this year's darknets forum... the MPAA and RIAA representatives were completely clueless. I want to believe they're deviously and insidiously playing stupid, but after watching it a time or so you realize they're not playing.

Anybody stupid enouogh to wage war on their customers deserves to go out of business.
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Banana
is the next Chiquita
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2006-04-23, 23:31

Erm, nobles saw many peasant revolutions, yet remained in power for centuries.
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Ebby
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2006-04-23, 23:38

HDCP is intentionally easy to break on purpose. The point is not to stop people from using watching video, but to actively control the production of HDTV devices. This minimal level of encryption makes the technology susceptible to DMCA laws. There is a LOT more money in lawsuits that selling entertainment as the RIAA discovered. This leverage not only gives the MPAA a monopoly over "Authorized" devices, but allows them veto future innovations and design by threatening to withdraw their licensing.

^^ One more quality post from the desk of Ebby. ^^
SSBA | SmockBogger | SporkNET
  quote
Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2006-04-23, 23:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler
Count me as one of those people who no longer subscribe to anything like cable or satellite television. I've paid for both in the past but it is simply an inferior product by today's standards and I choose to spend my money elsewhere.
I think the method of delivery is fine. I'd say the large majority of people who watch TV are channel surfers without the intent of watching anything in particular. On-demand services don't have the same sort of visceral appeal. It's the same as window shopping vs. shopping online.

Quote:
They want me to watch content on their schedule? They've got to be kidding. I've got a terrabyte array filled with content to watch on my schedule. It's available instantly and conveniently from any display in my house. If they'd sell that content to me with what I consider to be reasonable distribution and licensing, we'd both be happy.
No, they want to pump out as many options as possible..stuff they think you might want to watch...stuff you don't know you want to watch yet.

Quote:
But right now, it seems that the video-content industry is headed down the same pathetic and self-destructive path that the music industry stumbled down. All they have to do is sell television and movie downloads at a decent resolution and they'd have a profitable and sustainable business model.
There is no way for the television industry to sustain this model without leeching off the current format. IMO the first step is for the traditional telecom business to provide an additional delivery option for the existing TV format. Verizon FIOS and AT&T Lightspeed need to move out of the regional testing phase and provide the cable companies with competition. The price competition will help initiate the inclusion of on-demand and a la carte content downloads...via set-top box. As these products mature, then we'll see real movement in the pay-per-download industry supported by companies outside the TV industry like Apple.

Quote:
Until then... there's always bittorrents. When they wake up, i'll be there with my wallet open.
Inconvenient...sporadic downloads, questionable video quality, only temporary availability as people stop providing seeds. Good for the occasional download, but I find myself using it less and less.
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macleod
Now in lower-case™!
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
 
2006-04-24, 09:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthem
Go with the plextor. It's a good brand, the software is the same, and you can plug it into either a PC or a Mac.

The biggest thing, though, is it's a MUCH better hardware product for a better price than the comparable Elgato machine. Frex, the Plextor handles MP4 hardware encoding, which is pretty nice. It handles hardware DivX encoding, which is even nicer.
I don't really care about being able to plug it into a PC. But if I get the Plextor do you know if I could still use the EyeHome to connect all my content to my LCD TV?
  quote
Anthem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2006-04-25, 23:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by MACleod
I don't really care about being able to plug it into a PC. But if I get the Plextor do you know if I could still use the EyeHome to connect all my content to my LCD TV?
Don't know for sure, but I'd assume so. Maybe ask around in purchasing advice?
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MacRonin
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2006-04-25, 23:37

One killer feature I have read about in regards to the Elgato EyeHome 250…

Game Mode - allows you to pass a game console signal thru, zero latency…

So, jacked up Mac mini (Core Duo, 2GB RAM & 120GB HDD), four 250GB Lacie FW HDDs (the ones that stack ever so neatly under the mini), a set of Logitech Z-5500 5.1 surround sound speakers (w/optical cable), a 23" Apple Cinema Display (w/VESA wallmount) & a PS2…

Put a wireless Apple keyboard/mouse combo on the coffee table with the Apple remote & wireless PS2 controllers…

Be a pretty sweet compact home theatre rig, with everything available right now for less than US$4500…

And excepting the PS2, everything is available from one source…

The Apple Store, duh!

Last edited by MacRonin : 2006-04-25 at 23:57.
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Corey
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Jersey
 
2006-04-27, 22:44

The best DVR system out there at the moment is MythTV. It is an open source system with lots of cool add on modules and user support. At the moment the backend (server) for the system only runs under Linux but Macs are supported for use as a front end to the system.

MythTV features, details and screen shots can be found here: http://www.mythtv.org/modules.php?name=MythFeatures

I used to drool at the thought of an Apple DVR but then others convinced me that if Apple gets into the market they will almost certainly cripple the unit. Meaning no commercial advance (30-second skip), no easily ripping protected DVD's to your drive, etc.

It is also quite possible that Apple won't support DVR functions at all and will support downloaded shows only. If they do support DVR functions it is almost a given that there will be no commercial skip function. Apple will need to avoid moves like that to appease the networks and movie studios to obtain content rights for download shows.

MythTV not only has commercial advance but has AUTOMATIC commercial advance like the 4500 and 5000 series ReplayTV units do. I have a 5000 series ReplayTV and it is wonderful! A commercial break hits, a small arrow shows up in the right corner of my screen and the show starts up again. It isn't perfect and works only about 80% of the time. The remaining 20% I have to use the manual commercial advance and skip the commercials by pressing a button a few times. It's not as nice as the automatic and believe me, you get spoiled quick! Hour long shows are often over in 40 minutes if you skip the commercials as well as the beginning and ending credits.

If your not up to a Myth system you can still get used Replay units on eBay at reasonable rates. Only the 45xx and 50xx units have automatic commercial advance though. The others have manual commercial advance only. There is freeware hack software available on line so you can easily replace the hard drive, so buying a used unit with only a 40 gig drive is fine. I bought a new unit before they stopped selling them with a 40 in it, got a 400 from CompUSA and slapped it in, in about an hour.

Details on the drive hack can be found at: http://rtvpatch.sourceforge.net/
This hack is easiest to do via Windows but can be done via a Linux boot disk as well. I formatted the drive with a $19 external case from CompUSA and my Winblows laptop at work. It would have taken less time but I was using a USB 1.0 external case.

There are a number of programs written for the Mac that allow me to interface your Mac with a Replay to do things such as download MPG2 files right off the ReplayTV to your Mac. Mac's can also be front ends to ReplayTV's.
More on these various ReplayTV hacks can be found here: http://pvr.digitalinsurrection.com/r...tv_hacking.php

The main page of this site: http://pvr.digitalinsurrection.com/
is also a good resource for DVR hacking in general.

Back to MythTV...

Some people quake in their boots at the thought of dealing with Linux and with good reason as Linux is certainly more difficult than a Mac or even Winblows installation. Because of that and the ever-increasing popularity of MythTV, there are some shortcuts that you can take now that make the whole process MUCH easier than you might think!

For starters, you can buy a preassembled MythTV compatible computer here: http://mythic.tv/product_info.php?products_id=44
This site has parts, preassembled units called Dragon's, and also tells you what you need to build your own MythTV server if you are so inclined.

As for installing MythTV and Linux, there is a distribution of Linux out now that has MythTV included as part of the installation package.
This is called KnoppMyth and can be found here: http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html

In addition to Myth's other features, Myth also can record off-air HDTV. If you don't need to do this, you can save some $ on your backend as typical NTSC video capture cards are less money than HDTV ones. Since the backend runs Linux, you can also set up a RAID system quite easily. All of this software is free.

If you buy a Dragon or build a computer that has enough power, one box can do it all (front-end and backend). A Dragon can record two shows while letting you watch another. It is mainly a function of hardware. If you have more than one TV tuner card, Myth also supports picture in picture.

Last but not least, MythTV uses FREE Internet guide data. Unlike ReplayTV and TIVO where you have to pay a monthly fee for guide access.

All this data should keep those of you who are serious about DVR's busy doing some research for more than a few hours! Hope it helped...

Corey

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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2006-04-27, 22:50

Apple mentioned a Mac Media Center at their annual shareholder conference today.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/27/a...-in-the-works/
  quote
MacRonin
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2006-04-27, 23:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman
Apple mentioned a Mac Media Center at their annual shareholder conference today.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/27/a...-in-the-works/
Just as long as it lets me pipe my game console thru with zero latency…
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