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johnq
Multi-touch Piñata
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-08-31, 08:50

Funny, Jonathan Ive already said back in the days after the 'lamp' iMac was introduced, that they tried exactly this, the guts of the computer put behind the display but they had issues with heat and vertical optical drives.

I'd like to hear the rational for going through with it, what fixes/advances were made.

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." - Albert Einstein
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2004-08-31, 08:53

It's called "joking around", Chris.

Ooh, gotta say this (since it's also eating at me this morning): how does this design reconcile with all that Jobs said two-and-a-half years ago during the unveiling of the iMac G4? All that business about letting elements be true to themselves, not glomming the guts on the back of the display, optical drives performing better when they're horizontally positioned, etc.



In fact, this new iMac G5 probably looks a lot like one of the many designs Ive submitted that were pooh-poohed by Jobs three or so years ago for violating those very issues!

Now, two-and-a-half years later, Jobs is cool with it? What changed? I realize drives can be improved and all, but did Jobs' actual thinking on this whole thing do a 180 also? He was so proud of himself in January 2002. It almosts seems backwards: today's iMac G5 should've been the one released in 2002 and the sunflower unveiled this morning.



That's at the crux of my whole view on this new iMac, I think. It feels uninspired and it seems to contradict everything Jobs made a big point of a few years ago. Almost like a "if YOU guys don't believe in it, how can I?" kind of thing...

But you know what? I need to see this in person because I know from experience that Apple PR photos NEVER do these products justice. They are always more sleek, glossy, refined, detailed, touchable, huggable, eye-popping, etc. when seen in person.

So I've got THAT going for me... Maybe a trip to Atlanta is in the cards this weekend. Are these in stores yet, simply as demo models even? I know they don't ship until mid-month, but the store might have a couple sitting out, right? I'll call later this week...

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2004-08-31 at 09:02.
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MCQ
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2004-08-31, 08:59

Meh. It's very impressive that they fit it in the way they have, even though the design isn't visually striking.

I'm also a little disappointed in the specs (the SW in me talking ).
Couple random picks at the specs:
- FSB 1/3 of CPU speed. bah.
- 4x SD. Freaking eMac has better SD speed, I don't care if that thing is vertical or not.
- Typical viewing angle:
17-inch models
120° horizontal
90° vertical
WTF?

The 20" looks like a great value, not so sure on either 17".

Off to 6 hrs of classes, be back later
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2004-08-31, 09:00

WAY too much white space on the bottom front side of the panel. Not sure what their reasons were for doing this but I hope they were good (i.e. engineering not design fetish) reasons. It has a very nice form factor but it simply is not attractive.

The specs however are pretty damn good. You basically have a G5 Tower with a screen in exchange for a slower FSB and a slower video card. And the prices are really pretty damn good. If it weren't so damn ugly, I'd want one.


...into the light of a dark black night.
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Messiahtosh
Apple Historian
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-08-31, 09:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0
It's called "joking around", Chris.

Ooh, gotta say this (since it's also eating at me this morning): how does this design reconcile with all that Jobs said two-and-a-half years ago during the unveiling of the iMac G4? All that business about letting elements be true to themselves, not glomming the guts on the back of the display, optical drives performing better when they're horizontally positioned, etc.



In fact, this new iMac G5 probably looks a lot like one of the many designs Ive submitted that were pooh-poohed by Jobs three or so years ago for violating those very issues!

Now, two-and-a-half years later, Jobs is cool with it? What changed? I realize drives can be improved and all, but did Jobs' actual thinking on this whole thing do a 180 also? He was so proud of himself in January 2002. It almosts seems backwards: today's iMac G5 should've been the one released in 2002 and the sunflower unveiled this morning.



That's at the crux of my whole view on this new iMac, I think. It feels uninspired and it seems to contradict everything Jobs made a big point of a few years ago. Almost like a "if YOU guys don't believe in it, how can I?" kind of thing...

But you know what? I need to see this in person because I know from experience that Apple PR photos NEVER do these products justice. They are always more sleek, glossy, refined, detailed, touchable, huggable, eye-popping, etc. when seen in person.
How? It's not glommed on the back, nothing juts out! There is less here now than there ever was before on the iMac 2. That's how. The elements hardly need to be true to anything, considering they are almost nonexistent. The design is eye-popping enough to have just been all over CNN.

I think it's absolutely gorgeous, and when you see one and realize it's price/performance ratio, you'll want one.

"We are reviewing some 9,000 recent UNHCR referrals from Syria. We are receiving roughly a thousand new ones each month, and we expect admissions from Syria to surge in 2015 and beyond." - Anne C. Richard, Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2004-08-31, 09:04

I'm really on the fence with this one.

The graphics card is abysmal with no option to upgrade, the RAM allocation is pathetic, no friggin ports on the front, and I'm really not a big fan of vertically mounted drives.

On the other hand, I'm not opposed to the design at all. I like the 'Jay Leno' front...if for nothing else than the fact I'm a Post-It note freak. The price seems OK for the processing power inside, and all-in-all it's a perfect, unobtrusive machine for dorms and 'first-timers'.

I just have to keep telling myself, "It's a consumer machine, 709, and you're not a consumer."

Whatever. At least it's not made out of aluminum.

So it goes.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2004-08-31, 09:08

It's about two-and-a-half times thicker than the iMac G4 display. I call that "glommed on" (for the worse).

Hey, it's just discussion. No one - including me - is insulting your children or family members, so don't veer off into that weird territory again where people aren't allowed to disagree with you, okay? Remember the other day?



I totally dig the specs and pricing. I think getting a machine with that much muscle for those prices is pretty damn cool! It's the machine I'd like my boss to buy us, truth be told! I wouldn't mind working on the 20" everyday (compared to the 400MHz Sawtooth G4 I'm on!)

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Satchmo
can't read sarcasm.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
2004-08-31, 09:11

As an aside, who made the iMac announcement? Schiller?
And was Jobs anywhere to be seen?
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2004-08-31, 09:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiahtosh
...and when you see one and realize it's price/performance ratio, you'll want one.
Well I can assure you that I won't.

Why? Because I love the freedom my PowerBook gives me. Combine that with the fact that I don't want (or need) to own two computers (a laptop and desktop), because one will end up, inevitably, neglected or not used to its fullest, and I'd rather save the money or spend it on other things. I've been down that road before (owned an iMac and iBook during an 8-month period, years ago) and it's not for me.

So no, I won't want one. Trust me on this.

I'd totally recommend them to a friend, however. Or I wouldn't mind having one at work (rather than another tower + display solution). But personally, no I have no desire. Actually, I haven't wanted anything else from Apple since getting my PowerBook (not a G5, iBook, eMac, new iMac). Like I said, I kinda viewed this iMac G5 as Apple's last chance to make me want a desktop again. They didn't accomplish that this morning. I feel pretty confident in this stance.

I WOULD like a 20" or 23" Cinema Display, I'll cop to that. But that's about it, hardware-wise!


Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2004-08-31 at 09:17.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2004-08-31, 09:13

Oh, and one more thing. I think "From the creators of iPod" is brilliant, and speaks to potential 'switchers' more than we as Apple Lovers™ can possibly fathom.

Let the media blitz begin.



As if.

So it goes.
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johnq
Multi-touch Piñata
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-08-31, 09:13

I want someone to mimic the new Cinema/iMac display stand for the iPods. That'd be cute.

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Messiahtosh
Apple Historian
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-08-31, 09:15

And that begs the question, what will the commercial be like? Hopefully a visual tie-in with the iPod.

And anyway, it is not glommed on, it is a G5 not a G4. If they had used the same concept with a G4 then the whole thing could be as thin on tbe back as a PowerBook...or thinner.

This is a G5, and it takes up less overall desk area than the iMac G4.

"We are reviewing some 9,000 recent UNHCR referrals from Syria. We are receiving roughly a thousand new ones each month, and we expect admissions from Syria to surge in 2015 and beyond." - Anne C. Richard, Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration
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Gizzer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hampshire (the original one)
 
2004-08-31, 09:17

Ok, have just finished perusing the Apple.com specs.

The only picture that even makes is look vaguely interesting is seeing it in use on this page: Woman At Desk. Seeing it "Real world" always helps to give the real picture.

BUT after initially thinking "maybe I could get used to it", I looked at it 10 minutes later and thought "Hang on, that just looks like a PC monitor" and nothing more special than that. OK we all know the gubbins IS the monitor and there's no hidden tower but: SO WHAT?!?! Everyone that ever see's this will assume there is a tower somewhere under the desk.

They'll say "Wow" when you tell them they are looking at the whole thing, but you'll never get the impact of seeing a 2G iMac that appears in every TV show that wants to appear hi-tech.

Also - in my case EVERY port would already be taken up in the new iMac (as it is in my current one), but with the 2G iMac, all those cords slope happily away from the base and into a hole in my desk. With the 3G iMac a shite-load of spaghetti is going to be trailing out of the "monitor" and then onto my desktop and then finally in to the hole in the desk. The stand could have at the very least become an advanced i/o hub for all the USB/Firewire ports etc.

Last edited by Gizzer : 2004-08-31 at 09:23.
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Messiahtosh
Apple Historian
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-08-31, 09:22

I think we also need to realize that this design will evolve a lot too. I think the bezel plastic is going to get peeled away as the years go. Rev B, baby.

"We are reviewing some 9,000 recent UNHCR referrals from Syria. We are receiving roughly a thousand new ones each month, and we expect admissions from Syria to surge in 2015 and beyond." - Anne C. Richard, Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2004-08-31, 09:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnq
I want someone to mimic the new Cinema/iMac display stand for the iPods. That'd be cute.

johnq, that's pretty neat. That would actually look cool sitting next to a new iMac. And I agree with 709 about playing up the iPod angle. If all those non-Mac users out there who have an iPod and love it can hook onto the "hey, it's from the same company so it's probably just as cool!" angle, then - properly advertised and pushed - this might actually mean something this time around.

Goodness, I hope. I sure don't want to be back here in eight months, lamenting the stalled, stagnant sales of these things because, truthfully, it seems no lessons from the past have been learned or implemented in this new iMac either (upgradeable graphics being primary).



I hope we don't wind up with another iMac G4 situation, 8-12 months from now.

I'll be curious to see how the press (the non-Mac-centric press) views this new model. Will they heap the same criticisms on it, or will they be impressed enough by its specs/pricing that it'll win them over?

There's no reason this thing shouldn't sell like crazy for the holidays. But, leave it to Apple to let it lie there, unassisted for the next four months.

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johnq
Multi-touch Piñata
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-08-31, 09:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogs
WAY too much white space on the bottom front side of the panel. Not sure what their reasons were for doing this but I hope they were good (i.e. engineering not design fetish) reasons. It has a very nice form factor but it simply is not attractive.
When you realize that the iMac is more akin to an Xserve G5 than anything else, it makes sense why that extra space is there.

The 16x9 screen is not the function the form is following as one might initially expect. It is essentially an Xserve form factor with a display tacked on, rotated -90 degrees and suspended vertically. http://www.apple.com/xserve/specs.html

I know, it's not an really an XServe. but both XServe and iMac are squat roughly 4x3 slabs with G5s (iMac having only one) and some drives. Similar airflow solution.

I'm just saying it is less "Cinema Display with guts of an iMac squeezed into it" and more "Dumbed down Xserve with a display tacked on top"...

None of which is meant to disparage any of the above. It's jsut a good way to explain the extra white space and the initially baffling 4x3'edness of the new iMac.

I mean they had to have thought "we already solved this problem (compactness with a G5) with the Xserve. Just pretty it up and stand it on its ass and tack on a display". Works for me.

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." - Albert Einstein
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Satchmo
can't read sarcasm.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
2004-08-31, 09:31

I think I have the reason for the large white area on the front.

Obviously it was no easy feat to cram all that stuff into a slim 2" pizza box. Instead of making it thicker (bad), the screen then had to be larger, vertically. While at first it may seem like a dilemma for the design team, it actually helps in "pushing" the screen up to the optimal viewing level.

The need to raise the display (with an arm like iMac2), is eliminated. The hinged display allow still for further minor adjustments. No, you can't swing the display around horizontally to the side like the sunflower design. But then again you couldn't turn the whole iMac2 CPU around like you can with this current one.
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Eugene
careful with axes
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
 
2004-08-31, 09:31

Anybody disappointed in the specs of the new iMac should go to Dell.com this very instant and try configuring an equivalent Dell Dimension 4600C.

I tried very hard to get the price down, and the Dell still had lesser RAM, HDD, connectivity, graphics, sound and peripheral options. Make sure you configure the computer with a digital 17" flat panel and not the crappy analog one.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2004-08-31, 09:31

Yeah, I guess they're thinking people can route their hardwired stuff through that little hole, in effect gathering/corraling your cable situation together. That might work, I suppose.

Still should have one USB and one FireWire port on the front face for easy access. That's just insane these days. I honestly assumed that would have been requirement #1 from Mr. Digital Hub himself, Steve.

"Jon, I don't want people having to reach around and fumble to plug their iPods in...keep that in mind".



It just dawned on me too...no external speakers. That downward-shooting grille is it, then? You can, of course, hook JBL Creatures or whatever to it. I wonder how it sounds, with those built-in ones?

I need to go to work on my boss, because OS 9 and a 400MHz G4 tower are getting on my wick.

"Hey Lewis, check this wild stuff out...where's your credit card, my man?"



Hmmm, I've got a mission now...
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Messiahtosh
Apple Historian
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-08-31, 09:35

Go for it Paul!

And anyway, why not get bluetooth so you dont need wires running from the front? Apple may be pushing their wireless peripherals and bluetooth upgrade, by not offering a few front plugs.

"We are reviewing some 9,000 recent UNHCR referrals from Syria. We are receiving roughly a thousand new ones each month, and we expect admissions from Syria to surge in 2015 and beyond." - Anne C. Richard, Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration
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kretara
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2004-08-31, 09:35

It looks like Apple took a design theme out of IBM's book with the AIO computer attached to LCD theme



Its called the Netvista AIO.
I wish that I could find a better picture. The LCD/Computer portion was like 8" thick and it had this massively heavy base that kept the "lcd" from falling over. One of my friends had one when they first came about (2-3 years ago I think). He only had it for 6 months because it was such a piece of shite.
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johnq
Multi-touch Piñata
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-08-31, 09:36

Don't forget, computer speakers are mostly passé now that we can stream iTunes via AirTunes to our stereos.
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Escher
Sub-PowerBook Lobbyist
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Washington, DC
 
2004-08-31, 09:39

I couldn't agree more with pscates' comparison of the iMac G5 to Jay Leno. That big white expanse below the LCD negates the wide-screen effect and indeed makes it look like a flat "eMac on a stick."

With that said, I have no doubt that the iMac G5 will look much better in person (rather than the silly 3D renderings on the Apple website), especially in a real-life home environment. I could very well see myself buying an iMac G5 in the next year or so -- mounted above the countertop on a VESA arm it would be perfect to surf the web, check e-mail, and watch TV in our kitchen.

Despite the less-than-striking design, I am persuaded that the new iMac G5 will sell like hotcakes. It's still worlds ahead of anyting available in the PC camp.

Finally, I am very glad I bought my 12-inch PowerBook in June instead of waiting to see what the iMac G5 looked like. I know that my little PowerBook G4 won't hold a candle to the new iMac G5. But I was, and still am, after portability. I might get a desktop Mac to supplement my PowerBook when I can afford it. But in the meantime, I truly believe that my PowerBook offers me the best of both worlds like nothing else.

Escher

I've been waiting for a true sub-PowerBook for more than 10 years. The 11-inch MacBook Air finally delivers on all counts! It beats the hell out of both my PowerBook 2400c and my 12-inch PowerBook G4 -- no contest whatsoever.
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2004-08-31, 09:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satchmo
I think I have the reason for the large white area on the front.

Obviously it was no easy feat to cram all that stuff into a slim 2" pizza box. Instead of making it thicker (bad), the screen then had to be larger, vertically. While at first it may seem like a dilemma for the design team, it actually helps in "pushing" the screen up to the optimal viewing level.

The need to raise the display (with an arm like iMac2), is eliminated. The hinged display allow still for further minor adjustments. No, you can't swing the display around horizontally to the side like the sunflower design. But then again you couldn't turn the whole iMac2 CPU around like you can with this current one.

Those are interesting possibilities / ways to look at it. I just think it looks really bottom-heavy, although, Post-it freaks will love this thing. Unfortunately it doesn't easily lend itself to off-color names like "tit-Mac" anymore.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Gizzer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hampshire (the original one)
 
2004-08-31, 09:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnq
Don't forget, computer speakers are mostly passé now that we can stream iTunes via AirTunes to our stereos.
Maybe for you, but if I streamed via Airtunes to my stereo, all I'd hear is a muffled sound coming from the other side of the house in the living room.....

Computer speakers are not passé!
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alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2004-08-31, 09:46

honsetly, no ports in the front qualifies as a deal breaker for me. between USB cameras, iPods and USB thumb drives, i use the front port on my G5 all the time. i also use the side ports on my laptop all the time. when it comes to items that have to be plugged/unplugged on a regular basis, having all of the ports in the back is a huge pain in the ass.

couple that with the fact that more USB devices are requiring higher powered ports, and the keyboard USB plugs just don't work. oh well. maybe the next revision will have ports in front. until then i'll sit on it, or order the low-end G5.

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
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torifile
Less than Stellar Member
 
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2004-08-31, 09:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiahtosh
I think we also need to realize that this design will evolve a lot too. I think the bezel plastic is going to get peeled away as the years go. Rev B, baby.
Do you have kool-aid running in your veins? I mean, the new iMac is interesting but you haven't even seen one in person and your making plans to marry it.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2004-08-31, 09:46

Yeah, I'm waiting for some reviewer or writer to make that observation (the Post-It note thing).

Some wise-ass with Photoshop and time on his hands will probably throw something together to show that...

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2004-08-31 at 09:59.
  quote
Satchmo
can't read sarcasm.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
2004-08-31, 09:48

I wonder if this new iMac could serve as a display in itself.

In other words if you already have PowerMac, could you use this iMac display as a standalone monitor?
That way you could harness the power of your Dual 2.5 G5 for serious work at the office, and then detach and bring the iMac home for play.

By the way, how cool would it be to unhook the 20" (after hours on Applenova) and hang it on the wall and watch a movie.
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chung123
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
 
2004-08-31, 09:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnq
LoL....putting a disk in the side is "bad" yet having a rats nest of cables jutting out of the right side makes "a lot more sense"...

I need to sleep...
Exactly!
I'm glad they didn't put the ports on the side...
It would have been a Medusa looking thing with cables hanging out of the sides.(with the printer cable--the CAT cable, keyboard cable)

But still...is everyone going completely wireless?? Including the keyboard and mouse?

I'm going to have to let this new design grow on me...I need to see it in person....
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