owner for sale by house
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
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I just read a book that was printed in China. And not a Chinese book, but a book about perception and design written in English by an American and published by Elsevier/Morgan Kaufmann.
So now I want to start making a list of the few remaining things that are not made in China yet. And then let's discuss how an economy is supposed to survive that does not actually make anything anymore, but thinks it can survive and grow based on the shaky concept of intellectual property. |
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OK Mr. Sunshine!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
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Here's the list of my favorite Canadian manufacturers:
Larrivee Guitars - beautiful acoustic guitars, (I think they're electrics are made in the USA). Godin Guitars - I love my LGX electric , made in Canada too! Tilley Endurables - awesomely bland clothing. The washing instructions on my pants read "Give 'em hell!". As far as I know, everything they sell is made in Canada (my pants are, at least). Paradigm - amazing speakers at low prices, made in Mississauga, ON. Mountain Equipment Co-op (MEC) - Most of their stuff is made in Canada, and prices are pretty reasonable. That's all I can think of off hand. Almost everything major purchase I've made in the past year has been made in Canada - not bad . Do not be oppressed by the forces of ignorance and delusion! But rise up now with resolve and courage! Entranced by ignorance, from beginningless time until now, You have had more than enough time to sleep. So do not slumber any longer, but strive after virtue with body, speech, and mind! |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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This thread. As far as I know.
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owner for sale by house
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
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Yes, but it's also not a thing. I'm talking about physical goods.
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Canon cameras - Japan.
Lenovo computers - Japan. |
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Sneaky Punk
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Rocket Surgeon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
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Perhaps this thread would be better if people would expand on why they think it matters?
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reticulating your mom
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Perhaps because by buying goods manufactured in China, you are also supporting those responsible for all this.
Nobody can really avoid it these days (I'm as guilty as anyone else) - just sayin'. Turn your keyboard upside down and have a look. You ask me for a hamburger. Last edited by atomicbartbeans : 2008-05-26 at 21:18. |
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OK Mr. Sunshine!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
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I don't think that the major problem is supporting a corrupt government with an abysmal human rights record, though that is a consideration. From what I understand, very little of the money made from factories in China stays there. The mass majority of the profits go back to the countries where the companies who outsource their manufacturing are based.
The major problem, in my mind, is the brutal exploitation of the Chinese people, and the wanton destruction of their environment. What's happened there as the result of capitalization has been hideous. Not that this is necessarily inherent to the process, but the effects are undeniable there. Just my $0.02. I like buying stuff made in Canada because I'm a bit of a patriot, and because companies have to follow much stricter labour and environmental standards here (though both of those bars could still be raised a couple of notches, at least). Do not be oppressed by the forces of ignorance and delusion! But rise up now with resolve and courage! Entranced by ignorance, from beginningless time until now, You have had more than enough time to sleep. So do not slumber any longer, but strive after virtue with body, speech, and mind! |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: May 2006
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Veteran Member
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More than 1 baby.
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: May 2006
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Senior Member
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owner for sale by house
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
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This wasn't meant to be a China-bashing thread, but about something else. When all manufacturing is outsourced, where does the value come from? All these supposed innovations are worth nothing if a largely similar product can be made for less money - people will immediately buy that. And where will those highly paid design jobs then go?
And what about disruptions in supply? If nothing is made in the West anymore, and China decides to stop all exports (or there's another major earthquake), then what? How much more can we outsource before this economy falls apart? |
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Hates the Infotainment
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
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I'm not sure that's true. It depends on the camera. The little consumer jobs, yes. The more expensive DSLRs, I'm willing to bet most of the parts are Japanese or Taiwanese (doesn't count).
...into the light of a dark black night. |
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superkaratemonkeydeathcar
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BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope. Join Date: May 2006
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The U.S. does still lead the way in a lot of areas of innovation, but the fact most of those cutting-edge products get built overseas is sad, indeed. I've never worried too much about where things were made -- I've never thought Americans were somehow entitled to better jobs, or better-paying jobs, than people elsewhere -- but as 'ghoti' just said, disruptions in supply could be a real killer. |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
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The vast majority of Cars and Trucks are NOT made in China nor are the parts.
The vast majority of computer software is NOT made (or coded) in China (although they like to copy it for free). The vast majority of all oil and petroleum products are made from crude oil that Doesn't come from China. Most food does not come from China. China Makes MOSTLY plastic junk you get in target or Walmart. They are starting to manufacture (not really design) computers and electronics but I don't think they make as much as Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Latin America, etc... China IS growing like crazy though. I think the real question of your post should be: What things are still made in North America or Europe? China is only one of many 3rd world countries that want to participate in capitalism like the rest. The problem with China is that they have a very strong and authoritarian central government which is unlike Europe and North America had during their boom times. Any kind of union movement or labor unrest can be quashed by the police. As far how an economy can exist on IP only... I don't know at all.. I don't think it has ever been tried so this is the first time. Maybe it will work out. JTA |
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reticulating your mom
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What if the business of other things was like intellectual property business?
"The beer in this case is for the licensee's personal use only. Party licenses can be purchased separately for an additional fee." "Congratulations on the purchase of your new car! Before use, you must first activate the vehicle - the 19-digit activation code can be found on the dealer's bill of sale. Unauthorized activation circumvention, or resale of vehicle without dealer consent, is prohibited and punishable under the Motor Vehicle addendum to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act." You ask me for a hamburger. |
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owner for sale by house
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
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But more and more. Also, toothpaste. Quote:
And maybe it won't, that's my question. I doubt that the intellectual property is worth much. As you say yourself, it can be easily copied. For every new product, there are dozens if not hundreds of knock-offs. It's only a matter of time until the people making those will start figuring out a few innovative ideas of their own and sell their own products without the need for a "Designed in California" sticker. |
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Formerly Roboman, still
awesome Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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It's also interesting how you mention intellectual property, because that's the United States' biggest export - entertainment. Unfortunately, intellectual property has no intrinsic value - it's simply worth whatever someone is willing to pay. And if people would rather copy it and steal it than pay for it, it's worthless. and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong |
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Selfish Heathen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
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Formerly Roboman, still
awesome Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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Scholastic impressed me a lot with how they handled the massive Harry Potter print runs, as well. When printing millions of books, one might think it would be more cost-effective than ever to ship them all en masse from overseas, but Scholastic's edition of the most recent book, at least, was printed in Indiana. (Trivia: At Rowling's request, the books were also produced with great environmental care, with six new types of paper being invented for the book.) But at the same time, my (signed!) copy of Brian Selznick's excellent The Invention of Hugo Cabret, also from Scholastic, was printed in Singapore. So who knows. Maybe it was just the ever-so-valuable contents of the former (ZOMG Harry *mumble mumble* and Snape *mumble mumble* in the end!) that Scholastic didn't trust the Chinese with. I'd love to ensure that my books will be printed with environmental care...in the same country where they'll be sold...but I'd also like to keep the film rights...and the digital rights...and the book rights...and... and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong |
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OK Mr. Sunshine!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
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Right Honourable Member
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Isn't that true for everything, both tangible and intangible? We place value in precious metals and gems because society deemed it so. Sure, emeralds look pretty and as a result people are willing to pay a pretty penny for them, but what are they actually *worth*? This could become very philosophical.
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Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
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Apple007 pretty much pointed out my views on the Chinese economy. And service economy for that matter. Swox does have a point, but going from commie dictatorship to capitalistic democracy takes time. Besides, in the old days America wasn't as orderly as it is today. Just think of the old wild west.
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careful with axes
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hillsborough, CA
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1) Sensationalist journalism promotes the attitudes present in this very forum. 2) Mainland Chinese are very patriotic. ^ This is a recipe for disaster. Not only are the people in China going to be incensed by the air of western superiority, the government is going to feel even more justified in its censorship practices. Ironically they are letting CNN and other news outlets through these days because of that previous tidbit. They don't mind when news from the west rallies the people together against it. |
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Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
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Agreed. The tone of the debate could be more friendly.
I still believe it's right to criticise China on certain issues. Though, it can be difficult critiquing China, for example about human rights, without getting an angry response. But I suppose the answer in part lies in not blaming China for ones own dismal economic performance. The Chinese would probably be more willing to listen if they didn't have to hear the Americans bitching about loosing their jobs to China. Some random points:
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Formerly Roboman, still
awesome Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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Intellectual property has no intrinsic value, in other words. It can't be used to make things, like iron or lumber. It can't be used as a food source. Technically, the value of all things bought and sold is decided by those buying and selling it, but even if nobody thought gold was pretty, it could still be used as a resource. and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong |
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