[Jason]

So this morning, I was wandering around the Apple store and passed by the area reserved for showcasing Apple Displays. It came as a surprise to me to see what is currently available.
Has anyone else noticed that there are only two models currently available - a 24" LED model and 30" HD model. Not much of a choice is it? And then, I found out that the 30" is nearly six years old? Seriously, this needs some looking at.
Does anyone think there will be some kind of big refresh/new product roll-out soon?

[PB PM]

Apple realized that most customers are either notbook users, who never hook up an external display, or iMac users, who would never buy a display, becase their machines have one already. Most Mac Pro users want higher end displays than Apple offers. Not to meantion how over priced Apple's displays are.

[Eugene]

That's really not it. Apple's ACD is overpriced, sure, but the 30" display market hasn't moved all that much for anyone. There's only ever been the 3007 and 3008 for Dell for example.

[psmith2.0]

But why haven't they done some cosmetic and internal updates after all this time? You'd think by now the 30" would have DisplyPort, iSight, the new breakout connectors, LED display, etc. All the things found on the 24".

Or are they just keeping one "old school" 30" around?

I wouldn't get the 30" anyway, as the 24" is close enough in resolution, and has everything else going for it.

So Apple's made some movement here...they just didn't apply the changes across the line, evenly. They dropped the 20", introduced a new-style 24" with nice specs and features and left the 30" as is.

[Eugene]

Who knows? They're probably going to introduce a 27" 16:9 ACD and then an even larger model than the previous 30"

[psmith2.0]

Ooh, those would never sell! Well, not if they come with their nutball pricing attached. They're a hard sell as is (since, as you said, the bulk of Apple's popular products - notebooks and iMacs - already have screens).

That leaves the two extremes, buying the only two "headless" Macs Apple makes - the Mac mini crowd or the $2,499+ Mac Pro buyers.

Those spending $599 on a computer like the Mac mini probably aren't looking to spend $899 or $1,799 on a monitor to pair with it. And the high-end pro users know they can get more for less (or for the same price, but with better specs and performance than anything Apple's ever offered).

So, yeah...not sure if a 27" and a new 30" (or bigger) would fly.

Being a salesman specializing in Apple Displays would be a tough gig. What could you really say to people, other than "well, they'll match your new Mac wonderfully...that's worth $300-500 extra, right?"



If that 24" came down to something in the $400-500 range, and a new 27-30" (in the same style/specs) came in below $1,000, maybe it would be different.

I think the best deal right now is to get a 27" 16:9 display from Apple for $1,699. It just happens to be called an iMac (and you get a built-in computer as a bonus).

[Robo]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 I think the best deal right now is to get a 27" 16:9 display from Apple for $1,699. It just happens to be called an iMac (and you get a built-in computer as a bonus).

Exactly!

I think Apple offers one 24" stand-alone display, right in the middle of their 21-27" iMac range, for notebook users and a few Mac Pro users. I don't think they expect it to be a huge seller, not at $899. It's just there to give Apple a presence in the market, so that the few who would like to spend $900 on an Apple display can.

The 30" display wasn't worth replacing, but they'll keep offering the old one for a few diehard pros. Why not?

I don't get why everyone thinks we'll see Apple's display line expand. It's been over a year, folks. This is it. It's not like they were selling well enough to demand or warrant a four-model line or whatever.

[Eugene]

I think you're dead wrong of course. Think about the Apple Store itself. As long as the Mac Pro exists, it needs to be mated to a high-end display. You're not going to see a 30" NEC hooked up to one, and it would be sheepish of Apple to put a 24" ACD + Mac Pro next to a 27" iMac. Sales volume does not matter.

What's going to happen is this:

24" - $600-700
27" - $1100-1200
>27" - $1500-1700

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Eugene it would be sheepish of Apple to put a 24" ACD + Mac Pro next to a 27" iMac.

Why? I remember when they had 20- and 23-inch displays mated to Mac Pros while they sold the 24-inch iMac. Even today, I'm pretty sure they have some 24-inch displays with the Mac Pros, not just with the Mac minis. The last time I was in an Apple Store, they had, I think, one 30-inch display. They had more than one Mac Pro, so...

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by Roboman Why? I remember when they had 20- and 23-inch displays mated to Mac Pros while they sold the 24-inch iMac. Even today, I'm pretty sure they have some 24-inch displays with the Mac Pros, not just with the Mac minis. The last time I was in an Apple Store, they had, I think, one 30-inch display. They had more than one Mac Pro, so...

Why? Because it is. And with video capture resolutions going way up, it would be silly of Apple to ignore the low-volume (high-profit) pro segment. Sure you can preview 2K video pixel-by-pixel on a 30" ACD right now, but what about 4K and beyond?

Just think about it. Apple thinks consumers need 27" displays. You don't think they're going to make a standalone 27" and perhaps larger for people who actually do need them?

[ezkcdude]

I think they sell whichever monitors give them high enough profit margins to make it worth their while, and that's probably about as much thought as they put into it these days.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by Eugene Why? Because it is. And with video capture resolutions going way up, it would be silly of Apple to ignore the low-volume (high-profit) pro segment. Sure you can preview 2K video pixel-by-pixel on a 30" ACD right now, but what about 4K and beyond? Just think about it. Apple thinks consumers need 27" displays. You don't think they're going to make a standalone 27" and perhaps larger for people who actually do need them?

No. Because I think they realize the people who truly "need them" are probably already looking/buying elsewhere. I constantly hear (here at 'Nova, mostly) about how Apple's display specs and features don't compare to those of other makers.

And those types of users (higher-end, true professionals in their field) aren't like the soccer mom or stylish consumer buyers in that they don't give two rips about a cute, matching rig.

Fact is, I don't know (or have ever known) a Mac Pro or Power Mac G5 owner with an Apple display. I realize that's not scientific, but it covers an assload of users and acquaintances/co-workers from here to the West Coast.

Apple may very well do it, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Seems it would've happened by now. Granted, these machines are coming due for an update, so maybe they're just waiting so they can do it all at once (new Mac Pros and updated displays).

[Maciej]

I see the 30" teamed up with PowerMacs and G5s in Edu labs a lot, I know at my school we had a couple labs with between 6 and 8 units of this combination.

[psmith2.0]

I'm sure you do. I never said they weren't, just that the people I've known, and see with them, have gone with third-party displays. That's all.

I'm sitting here trying to think if I've ever seen an Apple Cinema Display outside a store (actually in someone's house, or any any place I've worked). The honest answer, strangely enough, is "no".

I had an Apple CRT display years ago at a California job. It was the ice/graphite 21" model (looked like a big jellybean iMac) and sat on the three legs. This was around 2001-2002. Since then, it's been iMacs or third-party displays.



I've never seen an aluminum LCD Cinema Display "in the wild" in real life. Which is really weird, now that I think about it.

[Capella]

Originally Posted by Maciej I see the 30" teamed up with PowerMacs and G5s in Edu labs a lot, I know at my school we had a couple labs with between 6 and 8 units of this combination.

Me too. In the creative work lab thing we had at Rutgers, there were 30" Apple Displays and Mac Pros, and I believe in the labs of the art school it was the same. The regular labs had 20" iMacs.

But yeah, I haven't owned an Apple display since the looked-like-an-iMac-jellybean graphite CRT one. (I miss that thing. It gave me 9 years before asploding. RIP.)

[Maciej]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 I'm sure you do. I never said they weren't, just that the people I've known, and see with them, have gone with third-party displays. That's all.

Right, and I wasn't really responding to your comment. I just wanted to add to the discussion that schools buy these things. I thought it was something that no one had mentioned upthread yet, and I wasn't intending it to refute anyones points or anything. I just thought that maybe they still offer the thing for schools that wanna buy everything in one big order.

[psmith2.0]

Yeah, they might get a cut or something. Or it's just easier, from a budget/list-making standpoint, to go ahead and get the displays on the same order as the towers? Stuff like that often comes into play, I know (I've been in the thick of a big purchase process a couple of times...it's a mess).

I still think it's weird I don't know anyone with one of these (and I know a ton of Mac users). Many have notebooks and iMacs, but still...you think I'd know one person with a Cinema Display! I never really thought about it until today. The two school/lab situations I've seen in recent years...they were both iMac-based (white plastic and, more recently, the aluminum and black models).

[Satchmo]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 And those types of users (higher-end, true professionals in their field) aren't like the soccer mom or stylish consumer buyers in that they give two rips about a cute, matching rig. Fact is, I don't know (or have ever known) a Mac Pro or Power Mac G5 owner with an Apple display. I realize that's not scientific, but it covers an assload of users and acquaintances/co-workers from here to the West Coast.

And there's one really good reasons why professionals don't own an Apple display. There's no matte option.

Apple's displays more popular with those who are perhaps more image conscious needing everything to match. Or CEO's who expense everything to the company so they have the latest gear in their office.

[PB PM]

The 30" LCD is matte...

[Moogs]

I stopped caring long ago and bought one of these:

http://www.eizo.com/global/products/...43w/index.html

[Jason]

I can't imagine they're selling very many that use six-year old technology.
Well, I guess they will update the 30" at some point. I just hope it's by April.

[PB PM]

I doubt it is all 6 year old tech, I doubt any company out there ships the same panel they made 6 years ago.

[nikstar101]

It is very odd that Apple still ships the old 30" display. I would have thought that they would gave updated it by now, but maybe there is still a market for an Apple display with an "old style" DVI connector???

I must admit I am one of the few with a MacPro and 24" Cinema Display. That's just because the computer is for personal use and I think the matching combo looks good. If I were a business it certainly won't have been the same decision.

And while I am happy with the setup I would sell the display in a second for an Apple matte display. I am not liking the gloss, I even ordered my MacBook Pro in matte which is superb.

I think there will always be market Apple display for the suckers like me (or if they bring in a new matte option, then that would get the semi-pros on-board too). But since Apple sees itself as a mobile company then I doubt monitors will be high up on the list of priorities.

[Jason]

My heart leapt for a while yesterday when the store went down but (as usual) I was just dreaming.

[Matsu]

Apple's high end displays have tended to enter the market representing a pretty good value, but then stagnating. Maybe it's just not possible to make a substantially cheaper 30" display with good quality. I don't see a lot of other "good" 30" displays out there, nor too many 27" models for that matter. 24" models seem to be the best bet for performance and value.

So maybe Apple drops the 24" and adds a 21.5" and 27" model, since they seem to be using a quality component in their iMac's already, and then a bigger than 30" model, maybe 32-35" and 4K resolution?

Whenever a large ACD/ASD came out, there was always a period of time when it was the display to have, going right back to the original 22" display, if they hit 4K, I think that scenario would again repeat itself.

[psmith2.0]

Is "too big" ever an issue, or enters into it?

I like your idea (and can't believe it didn't cross my mind) of two models: 21.5" and 27" (just like the iMacs). That's enough of a spread to warrant extra money or consideration (5.5" inches physical size, plus the resolution...pretty close to what is currently in play with the 24" and 30" models).

Both HD (so no "losing decision" there), one bigger than the other. And the 27", at 16:9 and that current resolution should suit most anyone, I would think.

They they could just buy boatloads of 21.5" and 27" panels and make separate casings for those two sizes (iMacs and displays) and probably simplify their lives a great deal, couldn't they?

Would anyone truly squawk or gripe at such a scenario? I'm sure they would, but I like it better than the current 21.5" and 27" iMac, a 24" LCD with iSight and DisplayPort and one old, neglected 30" with no iSight, etc.

Make a 16:9 LED backlit 21.5" and 27" with the styling and features of the current 24" (offer both matte and gloss, BTW). Price the 21.5" in a reasonable manner and that would be a great machine for Mac mini users (since the Mac mini has no web cam or mic) and MacBook and MacBook Air owners looking to "go big" while at home.

The 27" model (at 2560x1440, just a tad under, vertically, the 30" 2560x1600) would be great for Mac Pro and MacBook Pro users. And even 27" iMac owners who wanted to perfectly double their display area with two same quality/resolution 27" side-by-side (Apple could design the 27" display so that it sits beside the 27" iMac "just right" in a side-by-side pairing).

People would say "but that's stepping down, going from 30" to 27"). But factor in all the extras and features currently not on the 30". That should make up for it. You're going to have the same exact horizontal resolution/working space.

The only "loss" here is 160 vertical pixels. I bet most could live with that (have you seen how big and spacious these 27" iMacs are? I don't think anyone is going to feel "closed in". Especially if you've never owned such a large display before, and you've previously "topped out" with a 20" iMac or a 19-22" standalone third-party display. If you've never owned or used a 30" Cinema Display, what, exactly, would you be missing or lacking? Nothing.

There would also be a slight vertical loss from the 24" 1920x1200 to the 21.5" 1920x1080. But priced right - with an iSight, some USB ports, gorgeous quality, 16:9 ratio, etc., no reasonable person is going to squawk (especially if they never owned a 24" - or 30" - to begin with). If you have a Mac mini or a 13" Apple notebook of some sort, that 21.5" is going to feel like a movie screen (or football field!), no matter what.

[Matsu]

The other benefit of killing the existing line-up is that it should be possible to offer a cheaper 21.5" and 27" display, just going by the lower surface area (relative to 30") and the prices in the iMac lines. People might not want to buy a 24" ACD for 899, but they'd buy a 27", I'm pretty sure, even if it cost a sheckle or two more. The 21.5 would need to be a lot cheaper though - at least in line with "good" mid-tier 24" models, or no more than $400.

For sure we're reaching the limit for desktop displays with 27-30". My current desk at home is the smallest I've ever owned - owing to size restrictions in our condo, it's a simple flat 24"x48" table. For me, for either iMac, I would place them right against the back edge, likely stand mounted. People forget that comfortable use also requires a little distance between your eyes and the screen - that's to say nothing of the typical desk furniture. You know the stuff, with nooks, racks, drawers, hutches, and other organization feature to clutter things. A lot of them will find 21-24" displays a squeeze.

That said, a large 4K display would be in a market with essentially no ceiling (for the time being) the people who want it/need and can afford it, will have the appropriate furniture.

[Robo]

I am in love with a computer hutch from a certain Swedish company, but the opening is about half a centimeter too short for the 21.5" iMac. It's infuriating. The computer would probably fit, since you tilt the screen back, but how can I be sure?

[zippy]

Originally Posted by Roboman I am in love with a computer hutch from a certain Swedish company, but the opening is about half a centimeter too short for the 21.5" iMac. It's infuriating. The computer would probably fit, since you tilt the screen back, but how can I be sure?

You could take a tape measure to an Apple store and measure the actual clearance as you tilt it back and forth. Tilting can actual increase the overall height as the front or back edge arcs higher than the flattened top would otherwise be.

If it won't fit, you could take the stand off of the iMac, build a false back into the cabinet and VESA mount it. But that is admittedly a pain in the butt and potentially less elegant.

[psmith2.0]

Even if the clearance is there (a centimeter or so, and it "just fits, barely"), would that be too closed-in for venting or anything? I just have a flat, open desk (no hutch or upper shelving), so I've never encountered that. But the top/back of my iMac gets quite warm, and I'd have a weird fear about that heat not having enough free room to escape.



But I might be all wet on that, it's just one of those things. I had to surround/contain heat-producing electronic gear. I like at least 3-4 inches of good clearance.

But I agree with zippy...take a tape measure and get precise measurements for various tilts. It's the only way to really know. Do you already have said beloved hutch from mystery Swedish furniture company, Robo? Or do you have some flexibility on that end (as in "love something else").