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potential piracy solution, tell me what you think


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potential piracy solution, tell me what you think
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intlplby
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Join Date: Dec 2004
 
2006-11-29, 22:06

i had an idea that i haven't seen anywhere else. tell me what you think.

honestly the real way to solve piracy problems is simply to move piracy from a crime with years behind bars and exhorbitant fines to one with miniscule fines, yet easier much to prosecute....

i.e. if musician or his lawyer has proof that you have an illegal copy of his or her music, then all they need is get information from your service provider as to your address and send you a letter as they have done with others

in the letter they give you two options:

1) pay for the album plus a penalty along the lines of $10 dollars and shipping costs for that album.
2)if you don't, you are then taken to court and liable for $100 fine plus court costs for that city/state. The fine money goes to pay the label exactly what they would have recieved for the sale of that record (like $8) and the remaining money goes strait to the recording artist only

if people know that there is a very real threat of getting caught and paying some cash they are more likely to curb their habits..... however exhorbitant fines like $500,000 and jail time make the RIAA and MPAA seem like bastards... it's bad PR... actually they are bastards, but that's besides the point

it's so rampant today, like speeding and marijuana use, that it needs to be treated like a minor crime.... no public/criminal record, no jail time, just fines

of course people doing major distribution should have stiffer penalties.

intellectual property simply isn't physical property since stealing it does not mean loss for the property owner, only loss of a potential sale.

by using the above suggested system it makes it easier to convert those potential sales into real sales, which is the ultimate goal, isn't it?

this would probably necessitate the need for the opening of small claims courts which just handle minor intellectual property crimes. running these would be paid with court costs. it's in the interest of the US and the EU to do so since both places make a lot of money from intellectual property.... doing so would also create a model which can then be used in foreign countries (such as china)


you want to create a punishment system that makes it into a "you might as well buy it, because you are very likely to have to pay for it in the long run anyways"
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jdcfsu
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Florida
 
2006-11-29, 22:12

I like you idea, but the only thing I don't see happening is the majority of the fine going to the recording artists. The label will screw them any way they can. From my understanding a majority of the time the artists don't care about the downloaded music as it usually results in increased awareness and concert sales. The label gets mad because they don't get paid. After all, RIAA is the tool of the industry not the artists. But yeah, I do like your idea. It makes a lot of sense -- it's essentially a speeding ticket complete with your multiple options on how to handle it.

90% of statistics can be made to say anything 50% of the time.
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intlplby
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Join Date: Dec 2004
 
2006-11-29, 22:32

the law would need public support to pass.....

one important argument is that the labels shouldn't care since their only goal is to stop piracy... the labels shouldn't profit off this.....

maybe the whole fine should only pay for that only copy of the CD with only the wholesale cost of the disc going to the label.... So like $12 goes to the label and the label then distributes part of that to the artist.

all the rest of the fine goes to music education curricula and equipment in public schools.... get more people involved in music and you increase music consumption and artists for the labels to sign.... when kids are interested in music and creating their own music they are more likely to value the idea of buying music and buy more of it

as i said above the most important distinction is that stealing music is simply not the same as stealing a CD from a store. Stealing a CD from a store is real loss whereas downloading online is only a loss if that person would have bought the disc otherwise .... that's an important distinction....


this generates real individual sales and would be more effective in preventing potential lost sales


this would work for any type of piracy - music, movies, textbooks, software.

Last edited by intlplby : 2006-11-29 at 22:36. Reason: a
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2006-11-29, 22:35

I think the answer is to form nerf bat police squads all around the world, and once pirating bastards are found, legal warrant is given to enter the premises and beat the culprits senseless with a nerf bat, 5 minutes straight, per violation. The facial soreness, raging headache and general feeling of helplessness that ensues should be sufficient motivation (dare I say "proper motivation") for the evil doers to cease and decist pirating.


...into the light of a dark black night.
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jdcfsu
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Florida
 
2006-11-29, 22:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by intlplby View Post
all the rest of the fine goes to music education curricula and equipment in public schools....
That would get the public behind the law for sure, especially with just about every public school district cutting their music and arts budgets to devote what little money they do have to books and teachers. Anything that would get music/art education back to the schools would be a win.

90% of statistics can be made to say anything 50% of the time.
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intlplby
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Join Date: Dec 2004
 
2006-11-29, 22:51

i think the way the MPAA and RIAA go about trying to solve the problem is ridiculous....

trying to restrict peoples' rights and punish everyone does not address the supply side of the issue....

you have to reduce the urge to pirate in most people...
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jdcfsu
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Florida
 
2006-11-29, 22:59

Hasn't illegal downloading gone down as a whole with the rise of subscription and simple pay services like Rhapsody and iTunes? It seems like as those become more popular, and filled with stuff people actually want to listen to, the illegal side has gone down -- especially since the old Napster and KaZaa days.

90% of statistics can be made to say anything 50% of the time.
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AsLan^
Not a tame lion...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Narnia
 
2006-11-30, 02:06

The problem is not the people, it is the recording industry's business model.

There also appears to be some disconnect between what music really is worth, and what artists perceive it to be worth. I'm sure there are many fine artists out there making music because they love music, and would be doing it anyway regardless of their pay but there seems to be this other group that needs to make millions off of their music. By appeasing RIAA etc. we are also supporting these artists business model which are in my mind, potentially damaging to the true muscial artists out there seeking to express themselves and our culture through music.

The real answer is to destroy the commercial music industry. The real artists will survive and the Britney Spears/NKOTB will simply leave when the tit runs dry and it turns out they actually have to *work* for their cash like everyone else.
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Majost
monkey with a tiny cymbal
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lost
 
2006-11-30, 02:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsLan^ View Post
The problem is not the people, it is the recording industry's business model.

There also appears to be some disconnect between what music really is worth, and what most artists perceive it to be worth, and what the record companies think they can charge (for CDs and piracy "damages"). I'm sure there are many fine artists out there making music because they love music, and would be doing it anyway regardless of their pay but there seems to be this other group of record company cronies that needs to make millions off of their music. By appeasing RIAA etc. we are also supporting these artists record companies' business model which are is in my mind, potentially damaging to the true muscial artists out there seeking to express themselves and our culture through music.

The real answer is to destroy the commercial music industry. The real artists will survive and the Britney Spears/NKOTB (record company cronies) will simply leave when the tit runs dry and it turns out they actually have to *work* for their cash like everyone else.
Better.
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AsLan^
Not a tame lion...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Narnia
 
2006-11-30, 05:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majost View Post
Better.
Nice edit and I agree fully

FWIW I actually get 90% of music listening needs from internet radio, sky.fm in fact. I still buy some music from the iTunes music store but I really haven't been able to afford any lately.

As for pirating/copying/stealing I'm certainly not above it, I generally don't do it because it's not really worth my time (see Steve Jobs speech) and as I mentioned earlier, I get most of my music listening needs from internet radio.
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Fahrenheit
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2006-11-30, 06:05

I wouldnt be happy that any old artist could get access to my information from the ISP that easily. It would have to be under court warrrant, not just from some artist who was pissed at me.
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Koodari
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Join Date: Jun 2004
 
2006-11-30, 07:47

Solution for pirates: convenient anonymous networking will soon make it impossible to track the pirates. Original poster's suggestion is unworkable anyway. There's no way someone should receive my personal information from my ISP just because they make a claim, and there is no way an ISP should be forced to look at these claims and make decisions on whether they are legit. If you have a legit case, you go to court.

Solution for digital creators: make your stuff extremely convenient to find, browse and pay for, offer better quality (no DRM, lossless), make stuff that is actually good. Many people will want to pay for and reward making of good stuff even after consuming it. As a kid I used to copy nearly everything, then I started buying products from creators whose previous products I had copied and liked, then I started buying the same products I had already copied and liked. Nowadays I do lots of research, buy used, use free software, buy lots of stuff and warez very little.

Also, sell physical stuff related to and/or themed with your digital content. For instance, I'm a gamer. I'd love to buy game-related stuff to decorate my place with. There is very little of it available, it's poorly made and cheap, filled with logos and text, not stylish. Now if I could get a simple poster with just a nice matte Half-Life logo outline on matte background and no text.. or a 2x2m wall hanger / space divider cloth with a nice painted scene from Okami... or a beanbag katamari to lounge on... I could easily pay five times as much for an object like this as for the game itself. I would of course make an effort to buy the game itself if I haven't done so already, but there are people who only use warez. For them it's a practical matter. They dig both the game and the object a lot, but can only copy one of them, and must buy another.

Last edited by Koodari : 2006-11-30 at 08:03.
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Wyatt
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Near Indianapolis
 
2006-11-30, 07:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koodari View Post
Solution for pirates: convenient anonymous networking will soon make it impossible to track the pirates. Original poster's suggestion is unworkable anyway. There's no way someone should receive my personal information from my ISP without my consent and without going to court.
But they DO get personal information from ISPs. It has become so easy for the RIAA to get the courts to force ISPs to give up personal information for clients that it has become totally trivial.

Twitter: bwyatt | Xbox: @playsbadly | Instagram: @bw317
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Koodari
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Join Date: Jun 2004
 
2006-11-30, 08:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by fcgriz View Post
But they DO get personal information from ISPs. It has become so easy for the RIAA to get the courts to force ISPs to give up personal information for clients that it has become totally trivial.
Trivial in your country.

Anyway, technology like Tor will do away with all this by giving you anonymity. To stop it you'd have to get encryption outlawed and enforce this.
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2006-11-30, 09:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsLan^ View Post
The real artists will survive and the Britney Spears/NKOTB will simply leave when the tit runs dry and it turns out they actually have to *work* for their cash like everyone else.

OMG this is like... SO UNFAIR of you. Like, who are YOU to say Britney & Friends are not real ARTISTS?You're TOHtally bigoted... and MEAN! I'm telling Mandy, Candy and Sandy what you said and we are going to make you SO regret dissing on BritnEH! No one is even going to talk to you anymore, LOOOSEHR!

...into the light of a dark black night.
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PKIDelirium
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Join Date: Oct 2005
 
2006-11-30, 11:15

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Partial
Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2006-11-30, 14:10

no way to stop piracy. Ever.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2006-11-30, 14:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by tensdanny38 View Post
no way to stop piracy. Ever.
Correct.

However, many consumers can be enticed not to do it to begin with, by simply providing a good product (be it an application, a song/album, a TV show / motion picture or whatever else) and treating the customers well.

If you treat your customers like potential criminals, high crime potential is precisely what you're going to get in return.
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AsLan^
Not a tame lion...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Narnia
 
2006-11-30, 14:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Correct.

However, many consumers can be enticed not to do it to begin with, by simply providing a good product (be it an application, a song/album, a TV show / motion picture or whatever else) and treating the customers well.

If you treat your customers like potential criminals, high crime potential is precisely what you're going to get in return.
Don't forget price! There's plenty of good products but they really need the price to match. iTunes came halfway on that because so many legitimate customers were tired of getting burned buying whole CDs of crap for those one or two top 40 songs they wanted.
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autodata
hustlin
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2006-11-30, 17:59

Yeah, the solution is to recognize piracy as a competing business model and beat it, as iTunes is doing.
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intlplby
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Join Date: Dec 2004
 
2006-11-30, 21:31

such a simple, eloquent yet complete way to put it ^^^
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Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2006-11-30, 21:40

while iTunes is easy to use and affordable, we cannot forget how many people out there are very cheap, and/or teenagers without credit cards. There isn't a good way to stop this, because even though these teenagers can go to a store to buy an iTunes card or a CD, its much more convient to fire up snorentspy and just get it there. Plus, that is just music. That doesn't deal with movies, apps, etc. The basic concept is people treat pirating as something thats "wrong", but not WRONG. They think they can get away with it, like driving 5 over, and for the most part they can.
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dfiler
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
 
2006-12-01, 13:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by intlplby View Post
...
honestly the real way to solve piracy problems...
Interesting idea.

But I was lost with the first line. You see, I don't consider piracy to be a problem. Or at least not a problem of any significance. If anything, it is a net good, helping to counterbalance the insane influence of media empires.
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