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Tiger with iWork or Microsoft Office 2001


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Tiger with iWork or Microsoft Office 2001
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TiBookG4/5
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Join Date: Apr 2005
 
2005-04-29, 13:06

I currently own Microsoft Office 2001 and later today I plan to switch Tiger. I have struggled with a number of reliability issues (think: Unexpected Quits) with Microsoft Office 2001. In 2004, a new version of Microsoft Office was released to correct some of the problems that existed in the earlier version. I am apathetic about continuing to deal with Office 2001, but am also hesitant to purchase the oldish 2004 version of the program if a newer version is expected to be released soon. In order to hold me over, I have considered purchasing iWork. Should I continue to use Office 2001 with Tiger, switch to iWork, or purchase Office 2004? Is a new version of Office due anytime soon?
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ast3r3x
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2005-04-29, 13:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiBookG4/5
I currently own Microsoft Office 2001 and later today I plan to switch Tiger. I have struggled with a number of reliability issues (think: Unexpected Quits) with Microsoft Office 2001. In 2004, a new version of Microsoft Office was released to correct some of the problems that existed in the earlier version. I am apathetic about continuing to deal with Office 2001, but am also hesitant to purchase the oldish 2004 version of the program if a newer version is expected to be released soon. In order to hold me over, I have considered purchasing iWork. Should I continue to use Office 2001 with Tiger, switch to iWork, or purchase Office 2004? Is a new version of Office due anytime soon?
I'd go with iWork. It's an awesome, fast, powerful, and attractive word processory with a pinch of layout program. It exports to Word really well too, although if you are doing crazy things in Word, maybe it won't work completely perfect.

I don't use Word anymore.
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Brad
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Join Date: May 2004
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2005-04-29, 13:47

I'm not a PowerPoint/Keynote guy, but iWork's Pages rocks my world. My only real complaint about it is that it didn't come out any sooner!

I'm using it at home for my all word processing needs.

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The Return of the 'nut
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2005-04-29, 13:56

can't agree with the 2 posts above. if you are used to Word and have become comfortable with the way it does things and its feature set switching to Pages will most likely be a frustrating mess.

Office 2004 is a nice package, especially for the academic price
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709
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2005-04-29, 14:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
I'm not a PowerPoint/Keynote guy, but iWork's Pages rocks my world.
I'm the opposite (well, kinda), I'm not a huge Word/Pages guy but Keynote is the friggin bomb.
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Brad
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2005-04-29, 14:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Return of the 'nut
if you are used to Word and have become comfortable with the way it does things and its feature set switching to Pages will most likely be a frustrating mess.
Well, I'd been using Word 98/2001/v.X at home for years and other various Windows version of Word every day at work.

For me, it just took me a few hours of writing a couple papers one weekend to explore Pages and get used to its workflow and features. Granted, YMMV.

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TiBookG4/5
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2005-04-29, 14:11

I hope that this discussion really opens up and takes off. I hope that anyone who reads it provides their thoughts rather than ending with a small number posts.

I am still curious about when Microsoft plans to introduce a new version of Office. It is a very powerful program, and it seems to be an industry standard on Apple and Windows operating systems. Without Excel, I am curious if iWork is another dead end trap like Apples previous writing program. It seems counter initiative to purchase Office 2004 if a new version is months away. I do believe the Keynote is a better presentation program, than PowerPoint but I am pessimistic about how complete Pages is. Though if Safari and OS X are any indication of superiority over Microsoft products, Pages should be damn good!
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Kickaha
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2005-04-29, 14:14

Keynote frankly kicks PP's butt, no contest, not even close.

Pages is a totally different beast than Word, you'll have to decide which you prefer. There *is* a rather (to some) large learning curve, no doubt about it, but I think it's worth it. Took me a couple of test documents to get the feel for it, but it wasn't too bad. (Of course, I think Word's workflow is horrendous, so I was actively looking for an alternative.) Me, I *completely* prefer Pages for small and visually oriented documents. I have other tools (LaTeX, TeXShop, BibDesk) for large/technical documents that likewise kick Word's butt in that arena. Yeah, two apps instead of one, but each excels at what it is designed for, unlike (IMO) Word.

There is no iWork analogue for Excel, so if you need that, iWork won't do you.
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Brad
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2005-04-29, 14:18

I'm very much in the same camp as Kickaha, using different tools for different jobs.

TextEdit <-- quick typing, brief text editing, some basic word processor work
TeXShop <-- technical writing for university classes
Pages <-- general word processing
SubEthaEdit <-- code writing and editing for most projects
Xcode <-- for the rare times I code something in Cocoa

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TiBookG4/5
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2005-04-29, 14:22

Curiously, why is there such a significant difference in the size of the applications? Hard drive space is a growing concern considering these figures are so different:

Microsoft Office 2004
450 MB of available hard-disk space for a recommended install of Office; 630 MB for a full drag-and-drop install of Office

iWork
1GB of available disk space
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Kickaha
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2005-04-29, 14:26

Hmm, I find iWork to be under 700MB, including the templates in /Library.

But yeah, it's the templates that do it.

Removing the language .proj bundles that you don't use will of course save some space.
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Brad
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2005-04-29, 14:36

Specifically, it's because all of Pages' templates are localized for each of the different languages! The non-English *.lproj folders (each has its own help files and templates) in Pages weigh 225 MiB. However, Keynote only has one set of Themes.

What templates in /Library are you looking at, Kick? I don't have any here.

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Kickaha
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2005-04-29, 14:37

A couple I added, I realized. Nevermind those.
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ezkcdude
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2005-04-29, 15:09

I can vouch for Keynote 2.0. It's definitely better than PP. In fact, I would say it's almost worth switching to Mac just for that application .
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ast3r3x
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2005-04-29, 16:13

Keynote demolishes PowerPoint without any questions.

Pages beats Word for basic functionality, but importing/exporting crazy tables and stuff is dangerous.

Exel is the best because there is nothing else better
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staph
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2005-04-29, 18:35

Of course, you don't need to trust us — 10.4 comes with a trial version of iWork in the box, and you can download a Office 2004 trial from the Microsoft Mac section.

As for which is better… well, Pages definitely takes the cool stakes, but is very much not bloatware atm. You don't have any specific technical word-processing requirements (like indexing, table of authorities, a bibliography program which actually works) do you?

iWork and Pages aren't the only options, by the way: there's also:

Suites
NeoOffice/J

Word processors
Mellel
Nisus Writer Express
Mariner Write
Ullysses

Spreadsheets
Mariner Calc
P&L Software's Mesa

NeoOffice is free; the rest have downloadable trials, I think. I'd post links, but I'm too lazy, so you can find them on macupdate.
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Mac+
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2005-04-29, 20:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by staph
...[snip]...
As for which is better… well, Pages definitely takes the cool stakes, but is very much not bloatware atm. You don't have any specific technical word-processing requirements (like indexing, table of authorities, a bibliography program which actually works) do you?
...[snip]...
staph - are you saying that pages doesn't do indexing, table of authorities (what is that - like a table of diagrams list?) or offer any decent bibliographic functionality/plug-in?

If so, that's a bit of a bummer.

All I want is a simple life
twitter
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staph
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2005-04-29, 20:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac+
staph - are you saying that pages doesn't do indexing, table of authorities (what is that - like a table of diagrams list?)
A table of legal precedents cited. Very much a lawyer thing, I'm afraid.

Quote:
or offer any decent bibliographic functionality/plug-in?

If so, that's a bit of a bummer.
yup.

Re. bibliographies, you can do them by the usual lame export-to-RTF then scan thing (in Endnote and Bookends). Apparently the lack of a documented plugin API and Applescript support makes building in real bibliographic support a little… challenging.
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TiBookG4/5
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2005-05-01, 18:18

It sounds that Pages is still somewhat behind Microsoft Word. Apples aggressive educational pricing has made me re-consider purchasing iWork because it is significantly cheaper than Office 2004. It is a perfect hold over application until a later version of Office is released. Any last thoughts or comments to steer me away from this purchase is welcome.
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staph
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2005-05-01, 18:22

Frankly, for normal student use Pages has everything you want, except for strong bibliography support, and very few undergraduates I know actually use that kind of thing anyway. It obviously has fewer features than Word, but who really uses any of them anyway?

If you're really bargain-hunting, you should check out some of the alternative word processors I listed above.
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Yontsey
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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2005-05-01, 19:28

i dont know if it was mentioned but if youre in college, and i assume this because you mentioned educational discount, you should check out your university book store because i know here at my college we get microsoft office for apple or pc for currently $30. it was $10 last year, they raised it til $30, and its goin up to $40, but still heck of a steal considering the retail price. i woudl definatly recommend checking it out.
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TiBookG4/5
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2005-05-02, 02:16

Thank you for your additional responses. I am not a student at a university--rather I am on the University of California medical school faculty/ staff and am eligible for academic pricing. My needs for the program often require using some of the advanced user features in Word. However, I suspect that Apple has brought many of these features over to Pages. Microsoft Office 2001 is far too unreliable and I must switch immediately and it seems that the iWork suite is worth while. I suppose much like Microsoft Office, I am also waiting for Apple to shift their focus back to computers and away from life style products in order to complete the development of the Power Book G5. Both myself and my Power Book G4 500 are due for retirement.
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Franz Josef
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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2005-05-03, 08:59

Pages is a whole lot friendlier than Word - it is much easier to use. Unless there's a specific Word feature you use which Pages doesn't have then Pages is my recommendation.
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torifile
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2005-05-03, 09:18

If you're doing collaboration, you have to get Office. There's no way around it.

I use Pages (also faculty at a med center) when I don't need to share the document electronically. It's actually *fun* to use. Get both. They're dirt cheap with the edu discounts. And may be cheaper if your uni has a site license for Office.
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naren
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2005-05-03, 14:40

I have to say working in collaboration with Word users can get a little inconvenient, especially with documents with many photos, charts and graphs. That being said Pages' .doc importing features have been flawless in my brief experience for some reason the exporting has not been as perfect but nothing that wasn't fixable.

There just isn't any comparison in usability between Pages and Word in my book, Pages wins hands down. I can't even count the hours I've spent fighting in Word 2004's "formatting hell," Pages simply does what I want when I want. It's pathetic that the bar has been set so low by Microsoft Word that a fairly immature app like Pages can be so work flow altering.

The future is tomorrow!
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torifile
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2005-05-03, 14:58

If you're just sending documents back and forth, that's not really collaboration. What I mean is using "track changes" and "comments", EndNote bibliographies, etc. You can't use Pages in those situations because you'd strip out all the extra stuff and kill a lot of effort for a lot of people. In those situations, you've got to use Word.
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midwinter
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2005-05-05, 15:14

Get the Office 2004 academic version. It's relatively cheap and far, FAR more stable than 2001. I have iWork, and while Pages is a neat toy, it's really not quite ready for prime-time—mostly because it doesn't quite seem to know whether it wants to be a layout program that does some word processing stuff poorly or a word processor that does some layout stuff poorly. If, as Torifile rightly points out, you do ANYTHING relatively advanced in Word (tracking changes, comments...or hell, if you use ENDNOTES) you're SOL.

angry people are not always wise
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