[Satchmo]

This spat has been rumoured for months, and now reported on this weekend's NY Times.

Yes, it's business and competition is fierce. But why Apple was so chummy with Google to begin with, is what I'm wondering. Was
Jobs asleep at the wheel? (granted his health was more important at the time). Or was he simply too blinded by Sergey and Larry's admiration of him?

Was it a 'gentlemen's agreement' not to tread into areas the other company was involved with? Isn't this naive on Apple's part?

[scratt]

Here's my take on one aspect of that article : http://touchreviews.net/apple-quattr...e-advertising/

[hmurchison]

I'm not really feeling the whole Apple vs Google thing.

Apple's succes , IMO, comes from great integration and utility wrapped up in a nice package. Google is about using
web technologies to great effect and integration as well though with limited scope (web, mobile etc) for now.

Apple doesn't need to trump up some battle with google they simply need to keep improving products they already own.
There's no reason why MobileMe shouldn't have had Google Voice like features or why iWork.com should cost money.

Apple has a license to "print money" via OS X being a vibrant platform that's now spreading its wings into the mobile space.
Google is simply a company that Apple should be doing "co-opetition" with. Some areas will be intense competition while other
areas should yield collaboration.

In the end consumers don't give a rip. I want my $1000 spent to make my life easier to manage and I'm going to the vendor that fulfills
this vision and featureset.

[Partial]

It was bound to happen eventually. Google and Apple were clearly two rising players, both interested in getting into the digital lives on consumers in every way.

The two were in a lot of the same spaces.

Online Mail, Calendars, Web authoring solutions (iWeb, Blogger, etc), iChat/Bonjour and GTalk/Wave, Google Office and iWork, etc.

I can't say I'm surprised that there is the growing feud and that it blew up in the market where there are billions of users. Everyone (loosely) already had a computer. When both got into the mobile phone space, everyone had a phone but the smart phone was really just starting to take off. I can't blame them for both wanting a piece of this pie.

One could argue that iPad is breaking the gentlemen's agreement too. After all, ChromeOS was announced first and was designed for lower powered, cheaper casual usage computers for a web experience. That's exactly what the iPad is, albeit with a touch screen.

I don't blame either company. In fact, I welcome the competition as Android is what's going to make Apple give in and make iPhone OS 4.0 spectacular.

[JK47]

Originally Posted by Partial I don't blame either company. In fact, I welcome the competition as Android is what's going to make Apple give in and make iPhone OS 4.0 spectacular.

And drive down the price. And open the iPhone to other carriers.

This is good news.

Food for thought: Apple could help to level the playing field if they included MobileMe with every iPhone purchase for free.

[kieran]

It doesn't matter what Android does, Apple will not open the iPhone to other carriers until they are all on the same network. We'll never see a CDMA iPhone for Verizon.

Once there is a common standard (well, except for Spring) between AT&T, Verizon, & T-Mobile, we'll see the iPhone be available to more carriers.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by kieran It doesn't matter what Android does, Apple will not open the iPhone to other carriers until they are all on the same network. We'll never see a CDMA iPhone for Verizon.

Not sure why you would say that with such confidence. I bet you never thought Apple would leave PPC too then.

Apple will do whatever makes the most business sense. It's really not that big of a technical issue to dictate their product strategy.

As much as people criticize ATT, they have done a very respectable job at expanding and improving and handling massive growth very quickly.

[kieran]

I say that with confidence, because while ti may have been a possibility a few years ago, there is no way Apple will invest in a CDMA iPhone now when they are already starting their tests on their 4G network, which they are building using the same standard that AT&T will use.

Just easier to wait at this point and continue to make one style.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by kieran I say that with confidence, because while ti may have been a possibility a few years ago, there is no way Apple will invest in a CDMA iPhone now when they are already starting their tests on their 4G network, which they are building using the same standard that AT&T will use. Just easier to wait at this point and continue to make one style.

That may turn out to prove true, but I don't think its because they won't "invest" in a CDMA iPhone.... it's foolish to think Apple doesn't have a virtually ready to go CDMA iPhone.... the same way they maintained an Intel build of OS X for many years in case PPC did not keep up with their goals (which it did not). the same very likely holds true for the iPhone.... what if ATT just crumbled? or if their network did not grow at an acceptable rate, or if Verizon just continued to crush them? Apple would have needed to be ready and I'm sure they were and still are.

[Partial]

Originally Posted by kieran I say that with confidence, because while ti may have been a possibility a few years ago, there is no way Apple will invest in a CDMA iPhone now when they are already starting their tests on their 4G network, which they are building using the same standard that AT&T will use. Just easier to wait at this point and continue to make one style.

You don't think they'd be interested in a piece of Verizon's 50 billion a year pie? That's just crazy talk.

[solinari6]

Just curious ... even if Apple waited for Verizon to get 4g, and then made a phone for them, wouldn't they still have to support CDMA for the phone to fall back to when 4g wasn't available?

[kieran]

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses That may turn out to prove true, but I don't think its because they won't "invest" in a CDMA iPhone.... it's foolish to think Apple doesn't have a virtually ready to go CDMA iPhone.... the same way they maintained an Intel build of OS X for many years in case PPC did not keep up with their goals (which it did not). the same very likely holds true for the iPhone.... what if ATT just crumbled? or if their network did not grow at an acceptable rate, or if Verizon just continued to crush them? Apple would have needed to be ready and I'm sure they were and still are.

This could be true as well. However, Verizon initially balked at the iPhone because of the lack of control over the device. I'm not sure how much control they have with the Droid, but it's probably more than they would have with the iPhone. Apple would be smart to have a phone ready for CDMA, in case things didn't work out with AT&T, but if it's not out by now, it most likely will never see the light of day.

Originally Posted by Partial You don't think they'd be interested in a piece of Verizon's 50 billion a year pie? That's just crazy talk.

Of course they're interested, but the iPhone has been out almost 3 years now and we haven't seen a Verizon version. When all the networks are compatible, then we'll see one for Verizon.

[Partial]

That is some pretty far fetched speculation. It has been ~2.5 years, and it is heavily rumored to be coming this summer. I have no idea if you're right or not but I'm not naive enough to think they're not interested in the Verizon market. For the cost of say 50 million R&D (1% of the market size of people dying to get their hands on this device), they could probably get it done.

My guess as to why it's not on V is an exclusivity agreement, plain and simple.

[kieran]

Originally Posted by kieran Of course they're interested, but the iPhone has been out almost 3 years now and we haven't seen a Verizon version. When all the networks are compatible, then we'll see one for Verizon.

Originally Posted by Partial ... I have no idea if you're right or not but I'm not naive enough to think they're not interested in the Verizon market.... My guess as to why it's not on V is an exclusivity agreement, plain and simple.

Did you not read my first response? Of course Apple would want Verizon customers. Verizon was the company that said no to them in the first place. After that, with almost every other country in the world us GSM, Apple just didn't want to make a CDMA version. Whether Jobs was ticked at Verizon, didn't want to spend the extra money, or the AT&T exclusive agreement is holding it back is anyone's guess.

I'm just saying that if we haven't seen a Verizon iPhone yet, we won't see one until LTE is more entrenched.

[Wrao]

Well, I don't know how this 'spat' will play out, but it has certainly riled up the internet nerd herd. Apple hate might just be at an all time high, while Google fanboys are coming out of the woodwork and acting... well, exactly like "Cult of Mac" fanboys.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Originally Posted by kieran Did you not read my first response? Of course Apple would want Verizon customers. Verizon was the company that said no to them in the first place. After that, with almost every other country in the world us GSM, Apple just didn't want to make a CDMA version. Whether Jobs was ticked at Verizon, didn't want to spend the extra money, or the AT&T exclusive agreement is holding it back is anyone's guess. I'm just saying that if we haven't seen a Verizon iPhone yet, we won't see one until LTE is more entrenched.

Isn't the iPhone in S. Korea though, which is (W)CDMA? I Googled and found plenty of 23-SEP-2009 articles talking about the iPhone being cleared for S. Korea, but none talking about an actual launch though.

[kieran]

I thought the same thing. Not really any definitive articles out there though.

Anyone know more about this?

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Originally Posted by kieran I thought the same thing. Not really any definitive articles out there though. Anyone know more about this?

Found an article talking about S. Korea iPhone sales and 2010 projections of 700K:

http://www.9to5mac.com/south_korea_strong_for_iphone

[zippy]

Originally Posted by kieran I'm just saying that if we haven't seen a Verizon iPhone yet, we won't see one until LTE is more entrenched.

I don't agree with the logic on this. If the primary reason for the delay is because of the exclusivity agreement with AT&T, then once that runs out, there is ample time to sell tons of CDMA units on Verizon. It will take at least two years for Verizon to have anything close to complete coverage in their LTE network. And they will sell millions of phones during that time that are not LTE ready. Why wouldn't Apple want for some of those phones to be iPhones?

Two other issues could be stumbling blocks though:
1) Negotiations with Verizon could be anything but smooth. Apple and Verizon are both notorious for making agreements that are in their own best interests. So unless their separate interests can somehow be reconciled to mutual interests, there could be too big a gap for either companies egos to overcome.

2) Apple may not want the iPhone on a network that doesn't support voice and data simultaneously. I don't know how easy this obstacle is to overcome, but it would seem that if Verizon were able and interested, they would have overcome it already.

[Bonn89]

Originally Posted by zippy 2) Apple may not want the iPhone on a network that doesn't support voice and data simultaneously. I don't know how easy this obstacle is to overcome, but it would seem that if Verizon were able and interested, they would have overcome it already.

If I understand CDMA technology correctly, it's 100% impossible to overcome (short of giving 1 phone two radios (1 for voice and 1 for data), that ID themselves separately?).

[addison]

Originally Posted by St Bonney If I understand CDMA technology correctly, it's 100% impossible to overcome (short of giving 1 phone two radios (1 for voice and 1 for data), that ID themselves separately?).

Both the Verizon and Sprint networks are capable of doing data and voice at the same time but you would need a SVDO enabled handset which neither company offers.