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October 30 2018 event notes


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October 30 2018 event notes
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Capella
Dark Cat of the Sith
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
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2018-10-30, 09:21

I'll liveblog this since nobody else is!


New MacBook Air
  • full-glass panel and reduced bezel
  • 48% more color, retina display with extra pixels
  • touchID + t2 security chip
  • latest-gen butterfly keyboard, force touch trackpad with 20% more surface
  • 2 USB3/TB3 ports and support for a 5K display and external GPU
    [*16GB RAM and 1.5TB SSDs at the max
  • 12 hours web and 13 hours of movie playback
  • better speakers, more microphones
  • full-glass panel and reduced bezel

Available: Nov 7
Price: $1199 and up

Also, some really neat environmental sustainability facts: 100% recycled tin on the logic board, 100% recycled aluminium for the enclosure!!


New MacMini
  • space grey finish
  • 4 cores of processor, up to 6 cores up to 64GB of memory!
  • all flash storage and up to 2TB
  • also has the T2 security chip
  • 2 USB3/TB3 ports and support for a 5K display and external GPU
  • new thermal system with extra airflow
  • ethernet, 4 TB3, HDMI, 2 USB-A, headphone jack

Available: Nov 7
Price: $799 and up

And it's 60% recycled plastic and 100% recycled aluminium.


New iPad Pro
  • new design, narrow bezels, no home button
  • magnetic Apple Pencil sticks to the edge
  • liquid retina display
  • new sizes, 11" display (264 ppi) and 12.9" display the same size by an 8x11" piece of paper
  • FaceID added just like the new iPhones, in the slim bezel, no notch
  • infared camera, 7MP camera, ambient light sensing and floor illuminator
  • optimizations for AR
  • USB-C charging/connecting now
  • improved CPU and GPU and claims to outperform a number of laptops

Available: Nov 7
Price: $799 for 11", $999 for 12/9"

"A blind, deaf, comatose, lobotomy patient could feel my anger!" - Darth Baras
twitter ; amateur photographer ; fanfiction writer ; roleplayer and worldbuilder

Last edited by Capella : 2018-10-30 at 10:31.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2018-10-30, 09:40

That Mac mini is niiice. Very tempting. Curious about the stock GPU even though I'd likely go external.

Hoping for an iMac update and maybe even a new iPad mini.

So it goes.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2018-10-30, 09:55

USB-C on iPad Pro! Wow. I'm impressed.
  quote
Capella
Dark Cat of the Sith
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
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2018-10-30, 10:31

I wanted a new iPad mini too. Work is really hyped for the new Mac minis. Was surprised by USB-C.
  quote
Dutch Pear
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
 
2018-10-30, 11:12

Crap, no iMac updates. Was hoping for all flash storage and faster GPU/CPU. Unfortunately now will have to order the current one as my 2011 MBP is rapidly dying a faulty motherboard death...
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2018-10-30, 12:23

I'm really pleased with the Mac mini update. While I won't make mine a Mac Pro, the fact that I can swap RAM is huge again! I'm looking forward to the teardown videos of it to see what I can really do. They even made it look like the CPU was swappable in that video but I'm sure it's soldered to the board.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2018-10-30, 13:32

Can't beat the iMac for value, but I'm seriously considering going the 6-core mini/eGPU/3rd party monitor route. It would be roughly the same price, but I do miss the flexibility that an AIO lacks.

Can't wait to see some benchmarks in the coming weeks....

So it goes.
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2018-10-30, 15:20

That 6-core i7 is the same goods that resides in the new MacBook Pro. That should post some high scores.

Also, the T2 handles a lot of video decoding, which should take some weight off the internal GPU.

Either way, they should be smokin' hawt!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2018-10-30, 15:24

The question for me is, will this mini be worth me retiring my hackintosh. I very much doubt it given the specs on Volstagg, but no more bugs would be nice. Not having to question what catastrophe is going to happen when I let it run an update.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2018-10-30, 15:56

I have to say, though, that the laptop lineup is looking awfully confusing.

13" MacBook Air (2017) - $999
13" MacBook Air (2018) - $1199

12" MacBook (2017) - $1299 Why???

13" MacBook Pro (2017) - $1299 Why???

13" MacBook Pro TB (2018) - $1799
15" MacBook Pro TB (2018) - $2399

As far as I am concerned, the 12" MacBook and 13" MacBook Pro (2017) should not exist.

The new 2018 MB Air is superior to the 2017 MacBook and MacBook Pro in so many ways that it defies reason anyone would buy either of those. We already don't stock the MacBook, and we are going to put the 13" MB Pro's on sale and get our stock down to 1 unit.

In comparison to the 2017 13" Pro, the new Air now has the same screen, the same number of USB-C ports, faster storage, a more modern processor (which may turn out to be faster), better battery life, lighter weight, the same footprint, a better keyboard, Touch ID, T2 chip, and a lower price. Oh, and gold!

Why am I going to buy a 2017 13" MacBook Pro, again?

As far as the MacBook is concerned, it has … less weight and a slightly smaller footprint?

Seriously, the base 13" Pro and the MacBook should be discontinued. The lineup should be 2018 MacBook Air (renamed simply "MacBook") and 2018 MacBook Pro w/Touch Bar. All this in-between filler is just muddying the water.

13" MacBook Air (2017) - $999
13" MacBook Air (2018) - $1199

13" MacBook Pro TB (2018) - $1799
15" MacBook Pro TB (2018) - $2399

See how much easier that is?

Customers are going to ask, "What's the difference between the MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro?" We used to have a good answer for that. Now, the answer is, "Well, they're the same thing, but the Air is better and costs less."

And the customer is going to say

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)

Last edited by kscherer : 2018-10-30 at 16:24. Reason: Changed a RAM goof
  quote
Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2018-10-30, 16:27

Yeah, where's the iMac? I had thought I'd be looking at a 30" iMac purchase early in the New Year.
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2018-10-30, 16:45

Look for a silent update tomorrow or later this week. I think they are going to pull a 2018 MacBook Pro release and just release a media note.

However, iMacs have been shipping with very little delay. So, maybe nothing at all.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2018-10-30, 16:50

Thanks for the post, Capella!

2 things!

Why no USB-C on the Mac Mini?

Yay for Photoshop on iPad!!!!

...
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2018-10-30, 17:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post

Why no USB-C on the Mac Mini?

...
4 of them, you goof.

From Apple:

Quote:
Four Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports with support for:
DisplayPort
Thunderbolt (up to 40 Gbps)
USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10 Gbps)
Thunderbolt 2, HDMI, DVI, and VGA supported using adapters (sold separately)
Two USB 3 ports (up to 5 Gbps)
HDMI 2.0 port
Gigabit Ethernet port (configurable to 10Gb Ethernet)
3.5 mm headphone jack
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2018-10-30, 23:06

Very nice update on the Mac Mini spec wise. User up-gradable RAM is nice to see making a comeback. I'm also really happy that Apple put some powerful chips in these machines this time around, the i3 8100 is a nice for the entry level machine, good mid-range with the i5 8500, but I'm betting the high end i7 8700 will thermal throttle in that tiny package. I'm glad that there are a mix of four USB-C (Thunderblot/3.1) and two type A ports. Thanks Apple.

I still wish that it had an additional user expandable storage slot, since a PCI-E NVMe drive slot takes up hardly any space at all. I would just use the built in 128GB drive as a boot drive, and a 1TB 970 EVO for additional storage rather than paying the Apple tax for a bigger single drive. I currently have a 256GB 850 Pro boot drive and 1TB WD Blue for storage in my late 2012 Mac Mini. To me the entire idea of the Mini is for it to be small, so having to attach a bunch of external drives for more storage is kind of a pain. And to those who would say, "just use the cloud". Not for the amount of data I have, I suppose I could just use network storage, but I couldn't get away with the stock drive, even with that.

Still nice upgrade after 4 years of brutal stagnation. I'll likely pick one up in the new year, since I passed on my 2011 iMac a little while ago and want a powerful Mac for video editing.
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kieran
@kk@pennytucker.social
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2018-10-31, 07:57

I"m sold on the iPad Pro. Going to upgrade from my first gen iPad Pro I believe. Just need to figure out which one to get.

Add to that getting new Apple Watches & another iPad for my wife, and it's going to be a pretty expensive fall for us.

Thankfully we're not upgrading our iPhones this year though. Still perfectly fine with the iPhone X. Going to be the first time in a while I"m keeping an iPhone for more than a year.

No more Twitter. It's Mastodon now.
  quote
Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
 
2018-10-31, 13:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
I have to say, though, that the laptop lineup is looking awfully confusing.
I agree. It should look more like:


13" MacBook Air (2017) - $999
13" MacBook Air (2018) - $1199

12" MacBook (2017) - $1299
NEW UPGRADED, Super-thin, 12" MacBook - $1499

13" MacBook Pro (2017) - $1299

13" MacBook Pro TB (2018) - $1799
15" MacBook Pro TB (2018) - $2399

Although I imagine that sub $1k is a magic price point and they need to drive the new MacBook Air down to that price ASAP.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2018-10-31, 13:39

Yeah, they really do need to clean up the laptop line up. I was talking with my wife about this and was going to get her a rose gold MB. But then we realized that rose gold is pretty much gone everywhere now.

She had an aging 13" MPB from a few year ago. (Optical drive, HDD, etc.). At this point it would be an Air for her with doubled SSD and that's it. Apple already sucks $10 a month from me for 2TB of storage so I might as well make her use it. She really only does basic photo editing and that would more than cover her.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
PKIDelirium
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
 
2018-11-01, 07:49

i3 on the entry Mini is disappointing, and the laptop line just got even more confusing. Other than that, good stuff.
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2018-11-01, 08:58

How is the 3.6Ghz quad core i3 8100 disappointing? For one thing it’s the CPU you should expect at that price point, and it’s almost as fast as high end i5s from the last generation, just without hyper threading. It is a huge boost over the crippled dual core i5 chips used in the previous two generations of minis’.
  quote
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2018-11-01, 09:54

My 5 year old iMac still chugs along very nicely, but that mini is tempting...
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2018-11-01, 11:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
How is the 3.6Ghz quad core i3 8100 disappointing? For one thing it’s the CPU you should expect at that price point, and it’s almost as fast as high end i5s from the last generation, just without hyper threading. It is a huge boost over the crippled dual core i5 chips used in the previous two generations of minis’.
Along with fast RAM and super fast SSD tech, the entire system is a huge upgrade over the previous version.

And the i7 option is hyper-threaded.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2018-11-01, 14:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
That 6-core i7 is the same goods that resides in the new MacBook Pro. That should post some high scores.
Actually, it's a desktop CPU (Coffee Lake-S instead of -H), so its scores should be even higher than that. It's a bit hard to tell, though, since Apple appears to be getting slightly modified parts.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2018-11-01, 15:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
I have to say, though, that the laptop lineup is looking awfully confusing.

[..]

As far as I am concerned, the 12" MacBook and 13" MacBook Pro (2017) should not exist.

The new 2018 MB Air is superior to the 2017 MacBook and MacBook Pro in so many ways that it defies reason anyone would buy either of those. We already don't stock the MacBook, and we are going to put the 13" MB Pro's on sale and get our stock down to 1 unit.

In comparison to the 2017 13" Pro, the new Air now has the same screen, the same number of USB-C ports, faster storage, a more modern processor (which may turn out to be faster), better battery life, lighter weight, the same footprint, a better keyboard, Touch ID, T2 chip, and a lower price. Oh, and gold!

Why am I going to buy a 2017 13" MacBook Pro, again?

As far as the MacBook is concerned, it has … less weight and a slightly smaller footprint?

Seriously, the base 13" Pro and the MacBook should be discontinued. The lineup should be 2018 MacBook Air (renamed simply "MacBook") and 2018 MacBook Pro w/Touch Bar. All this in-between filler is just muddying the water.
Yup, this has been confusing for several years now, and this weeks' introduction didn't exactly make it… better.

It appears to be a mixture of:
  • Tim Cook being more keen than Steve Jobs to sell outdated products, if people keep buying them, where Jobs instead would have argued that this hurts the brand and leads to confusion (which may ultimately lead to no purchase at all).
  • Too-optimistic bets / overpromises on Intel being able to scale Core M (now Y-series). If this had panned out, the 12-inch MacBook would by now have been more mainstream in terms of performance and possibly price.
  • Too optimistic bets on how customers feel about recent MacBook products.

They didn't manage to scale the MacBook's performance up enough, nor to bring the MacBook's or MacBook Escape's pricing down enough. So they needed another model.

For example: which models have Touch ID, and why? Before this week, one could guess that all models with the Touch Bar have it. This week, that's no longer the case. For no apparent reason, some Pro models don't have it, and now a non-Pro Air model does.

Or how about the Touch Bar? A Pro feature, maybe? But then why do some Pro models lack it? Why doesn't the iMac Pro offer it?

OK, maybe Thunderbolt, then? Surely that one's a Pro feature, which explains the 12-inch MacBook not having it. But now the Air does it. As does the Mac mini. So why doesn't the MacBook?

For the 12-inch MacBook or the 13-inch Air, I feel they missed an opportunity to decide if they want the branding to have Air in it or not. Their ultimate call is, apparently: "depends on the screen size!"

Well, that's not entirely fair. They have yet to update the 12-incher to Amber Lake (not entirely sure why). Maybe the next 12-inch MacBook will:
  • be called Air instead,
  • add Thunderbolt 3,
  • add Touch ID,
  • reduce its price by $200-ish

If so, that aspect makes a lot more sense again. After all, the Air has a Y-series CPU as well. Aside from the pricing oddness, the MacBook and the Air are mostly siblings.

But that still leaves us with… why does the Escape exist? Why does it lack Touch ID when the Air has it? Why does it have a better CPU and display, and much better GPU?

(Why hasn't the Escape been updated this year? That one is once again on Intel: they have yet to ship an eighth-gen CPU to replace it. The parts either have considerably higher TDP, or a worse GPU.)

But aside from that, I don't think the "Escape" should still exist. It was a weird stop-gap until they shipped the Air, which they now have.
  quote
chinesebear
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Harbin, China
 
2018-11-01, 21:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post

But aside from that, I don't think the "Escape" should still exist. It was a weird stop-gap until they shipped the Air, which they now have.
I'm so confused after reading this. What does the "escape" refer to? I keep trying to wrap my head around it, but for some reason (maybe morning fog) I cannot figure out which you're referring to here...
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Capella
Dark Cat of the Sith
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
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2018-11-01, 21:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesebear View Post
I'm so confused after reading this. What does the "escape" refer to? I keep trying to wrap my head around it, but for some reason (maybe morning fog) I cannot figure out which you're referring to here...
The 13" MBP that has the escape key and no touchbar.
  quote
kieran
@kk@pennytucker.social
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2018-11-02, 07:11

It's funny reading threads like this when questions about names like "MacBook Escape" or "MacBook One" show up.

You can tell who listens to Apple tech podcasts when those names are mentioned.

No more Twitter. It's Mastodon now.
  quote
spotcatbug
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Clayton, NC
 
2018-11-02, 08:21

Well, I was kinda hoping for the new iPad Pro to be what it turned out to be but at the same price as the old iPad Pro. You know, how they usually do.

However, they obviously know what they're doing because... they got me to buy one at the higher price. And, of course 64GB wasn't going to do it, so there's another $150 to get to the smallest acceptable offered capacity: 256GB. And then I sprang for the folio keyboard. Which, now that I think about it, only happened because I was like, "Well, I'm already in for this huge amount anyway, what's another $whatever." Frickin' geniuses... of marketing.

Ugh.
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2018-11-02, 09:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesebear View Post
I'm so confused after reading this. What does the "escape" refer to? I keep trying to wrap my head around it, but for some reason (maybe morning fog) I cannot figure out which you're referring to here...
Sorry about that. As Capella explained, it's a nickname based on that fact that it has a physical escape key, yet is part of the 2016 line-up of MacBook Pros. It's always been a weird in-between machine that lacks the Touch Bar* and Touch ID, has fewer Thunderbolt ports, and a much weaker CPU (which on the other hand helps a lot with battery life).

It seemed like a candidate for a new Air, and Phil Schiller even hinted at that when introducing it, but now a new Air exists instead.

*) I know, I know, some regard that as a plus.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2018-11-02, 09:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by kieran View Post
It's funny reading threads like this when questions about names like "MacBook Escape" or "MacBook One" show up.

You can tell who listens to Apple tech podcasts when those names are mentioned.
Indeed.
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