[torifile]

If you've not heard about it, Kindle is amazon's long awaited ebook reader.

It's e-ink and supposedly can last 30 hours.

Internet connectivity to download books instantly via Sprint's EVDO service. EVDO is included in the price (how long until someone figures out tethering for this thing?). No wifi.

Books are $9.99 for new releases and best sellers. Others may be cheaper.

Subscriptions to blogs start at $.99/month. (WTF? Are the writers of said blogs getting paid? Probably not and very poor form.)

Price: $399.

Too expensive, IMHO. Yes, the iPod debuted at that price, but I could put my own stuff on it without having to pay another cent. This thing is useless unless you buy books (you may already own) from amazon. It should come with at least a few books to get you started.

Nice long write-up in Newsweek. Thoughts?

[kieran]

I don't see this becoming a major thing.

Do a lot of people really need a portable book reader? I just don't see people buying this in droves.

If it wasn't backed by Amazon, it wouldn't even be getting the publicity it's getting.

[artesc]

it sucks hard,
I could explain why,

but i'm just too lazy

[digitalprimate]

I just saw the ads/infomercials on the link. I like it. I like the concept and I like the technology of the screen. But I think there are still too many buttons on that thing. I like to think of my non-tech dad when looking at these "replacing" products and allthough he might like that you can change the font size, he would still be overwhelmed by the buttons.
Still, I would love to test it out if it ever came to Belgium, because it does seem like a great product.

[atomicbartbeans]

The hardware seems great, but the functionality seems limited... why do blogs cost money to read but not Wikipedia? Is it to balance out the bandwidth people will use reading Wikipedia?

Don't get me wrong, I'd *love* to have Wikipedia anywhere I go, but it seems like it could do so much more (perhaps a text-based web browser... a sexier Netrik? ).

[artesc]

you could buy the eeepc, or an ipod touch for that price and put your books on there.

[dmegatool]

My god the ting is ugly!! It look like a prototype from the 80's

[psmith2.0]

I'm not that impressed. I was reading about this earlier today (it's all over the news and tech sites), but I wasn't able to muster much enthusiasm. I think, as torifile mentions, the content for it is the toughie. People won't go for shelling out extra for crap that is already free.

You know, they should've done it with Wi-Fi and just let it be a damn tablet/broser/reader thingie.

But it's still too many buttons and it wouldn't "click" for people like my Mom or friends who really love to read.

Apple's tablet will beat the living hell out of this because it'll have Wi-Fi, the comfortable and intuitive Multi-Touch interface, etc. Apple will start selling text books from the iTunes store as well...

Mark my words. Apple will market it as a large, Newton-like communication/entertainment device, and the "eReader" component won't get much spotlight...but it'll do it better, both in function and in content acquisition/management, than this Amazon thingie does.

Looking at those photos on Amazon's site, yes...it is indeed quite ugly and "what decade is this?" looking, IMO. And I don't like how it's "wedged", which seems to favor a certain hand over the other. One of the nicest things that Apple does is make their hand-held items (mouse, iPods, iPhone) "neutral", in that they're symmetrical and not tapered or widened on any one side more than the other. Seems like a small thing, but I think you open yourself up to more customers doing it that way.

Truthfully, no one gives a rip and this thing won't sell worth a flaming fig. The only reason it's getting any play is because of the company involved. It's a Zune. In 6-9 months, I doubt it'll even exist (in fact I'm putting August 19 in my iCal so I can be reminded, in nine months, to check on this thing to see how it's doing). Sorry, that's just my honest, gut feeling on it. I don't care what it does...if it's too pricey and too expensive, it doesn't stand a chance. You can be ugly, but cheap. Or you can be expensive, but it better look like a work of modern art. This fails both those tests...

[torifile]

I've been waiting for a real e-book reader for a very long time. I've tried using various other devices but content was always a problem. This one seems to have the content but it's too expensive and very very ugly. If it were, say, $99, I'd think about it. Well, it'd need to be prettier and have a backlight, too, but I'm glad the content is getting there.

[psmith2.0]

It's looks to be larger than it needs to be, simply because it has to have an inch or two available for the buttons and controls. Think how much smaller and sleeker it would be if it was, like the iPhone, more of a "the entire face is the display" type of design, with on-screen touch controls, tailoring themselves for whatever particular task.

What format are eBooks in? Something specific and propriety? When you zoom in, do the columns and galleys reflow, or are you required to horizontally scroll?



The pics somehow make it look bigger than it is. It's roughly 7.5x5.5, but it just seems more like 8x10...

Who knows. Maybe this will take off, but I just can't imagine it right now.

[Robo]

The Amazon Kindle is exactly why I want Apple to make an ebook reader.

Imagine an ebook reader with a nine inch monochrome (heh heh) widescreen with touch/multitouch. (A 9" 16x10 display fits rather nicely on a 5x8 "book.") Swiping your finger forward or backward could turn the pages, you could use a keyboard to search when you need it (but it wouldn't be there when you didn't), etc. It's a much more elegant solution than either the Sony Reader or the Amazon Kindle - books aren't supposed to feel technical.

I think the Amazon Kindle will be the most successful ebook reader/platform yet (hell, with $9.99 "hardcovers," even I'm tempted), but it won't be the "iPod for books" Bezos and Co. are hoping it will be. I think the potential is most definitely there - it's just that no one has done the ebook "right" yet.

I'm still trying to decide whether I would describe the Kindle's appearance as "quirky" or "fugly." I get the whole "wedged to feel like a book" thing, and I think it might have grown on me since the pictures were first leaked (of course, the fact that it's no longer clothed in the beige plastic of the prototype helps), but it's still just so...inelegant, I guess. Both in appearance, and in use (a keyboard is useful, for example, but most of the time it's just visual clutter that makes the screen too small and the device too big).

But judging by the unboxing shots, they absolutely nailed the packaging. So at least they realize a $399 book is a premium product, and are (sort of) dressing the part.

[psmith2.0]

Well that's because Steve and Co. haven't done it yet. Let's stop being coy and mincing words... The only company capable of creating - on a hardware, software, content delivery and ease-of-use basis (all four of those things, not just two or three done "alright" or half-assed) - the "iPod for books" is the same company that *surprise* already makes the iPod.

This is barely even up for debate. Honestly, now...



Amazon (and others) are hoping Apple doesn't do the reader/tablet thing.

"Please...just give us something to dominate! It's eBook readers or creating basketballs...you already rule everything else, bastards!"



Yeah, the left-to-right finger flick to turn pages...people would dig it because it feels natural and expected (and you know Apple would put a little page curl/shadow effect - and maybe even a subtle audio "whish" sound effect too). And when you need to type or do something, the buttons and controls - like the iPhone - can appear, do their job and then go away, leaving a large, pretty screen for reading.

Roboman, books aren't "wedged" though.



Mostly-empty three-ring binders are. But books, when closed aren't wedged or tapered. That's just a weird design element to me, making it uncomfortable for some to hold or use. It would look a little more solid - and less funky, IMO - if it was a consistent thickness. But maybe they have their reasons, I don't know.

[Robo]

EDIT: I like how we keep editing to keep up with eachother's edits.

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 (and you know Apple would put a little page curl/shadow effect - and maybe even a subtle audio "whish" sound effect too).

Well, if Apple used an e-ink display, as they probably would (and should ), they couldn't really do a page turn animation. E-ink's refresh rate is much lower than an LCD, and although it's getting better all the time (about a quarter of a second now, down from half a second plus just last year) it's still not nearly fast enough for animation. So you'd swipe your finger/touch a "hot corner," and the page would flash black, and your next page would appear.

But I wouldn't be at all suprised if Apple added a (hopefully optional) "page turn" sound clip to complete the effect.

And as far as the wedge thing goes, I think they're talking about a magazine or whatever, where you fold the pages back behind the page you're reading. I don't know. You're right, though - I imagine the "perfect" ebook reader as having a consistant thickness, maybe 8mm or so, like the new Sony Reader (or iPod touch). I might dig the Kindle's "wedge," but a leftie probably wouldn't.

[psmith2.0]

Something else, watching all those videos and looking at the photos: the white body seems to meld right into the white screen. I wonder if that would create "border delineation" issues for some people? I wonder if the body came in a mid-tone grey, where the white display stood out a bit more, might've been nice to see?

The whole thing white just looks weird. I bet it gets grimy looking fairly fast...

Is it glossy or matte? Hard to tell...

I do like:

- Battery life
- Newspaper delivery
- Non-reflective display

I wonder if it'll be subject to a sharp price cut early in '08? I'm really not entirely sure what that $399 buys, when you think about it all...

[Satchmo]

Much has been made about how it echoes some of the original iPod's traits. From the white exterior to the black and white LCD display, right down to the $399 price point.
The problem however it that this Kindle doesn't bring anything new to the table. While there were MP3 players before it, the iPod's ability to scroll through hundreds of songs and syncing it with the Mac was truly revolutionary.

Today, this level of interface usability is a given. Charging $400 won't fly this time around. I'm surprised they didn't take the inkjet selling model, where they basically give away the hardware and make money on the book fees.

[doublem9876]

I think it's a very good idea, just looks ugly as fuck. But hey, maybe it'll bring reading back to the digital masses who don't "do that" anymore.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Something else, watching all those videos and looking at the photos: the white body seems to meld right into the white screen. I wonder if that would create "border delineation" issues for some people? I wonder if the body came in a mid-tone grey, where the white display stood out a bit more, might've been nice to see?

I think the "melding" is intentional. A 6" screen is not - let's face it - very large, and so the text gets pretty close to the edge of the screen - kind of like a mass-market paperback margin on a device the size of a trade paperback. I think the white is designed to increase the visual size/weight of the margin, in a way.

[atomicbartbeans]

The backside is fugly.

The embossed letters? The switches that stick out and are probably easy to accidentally move? The slotty speaker grille? No thanks dude. It also looks like it's hard to hold onto without pushing the page advance/backward buttons... they should be easy to press, but not taking up the entire space where one typically puts his or her thumbs. It's probably not much of an issue while reading so much as passing it to somebody or picking it up... you should be able to grip firmly without worrying abour losing your place in the book.

The one thing that makes this different from the dozens of other e-book reader devices... it uses EV-DO.

That still boggles my mind.

How could it be so easy for Amazon to arrange the network licensing with Sprint, if Apple bragged about how hard it was to get a wireless carrier to sell the iPhone without carrier-modified firmware? How do they set it up with absolutely no activation or monthly fees to the user? Are there invisible bandwidth caps (a la Comcast) if you spend too much time screwing around on Wikipedia?

If this is so easy for Amazon (not a hardware manufacturer, but a fucking bookstore) to set up, then why isn't Nokia selling EV-DO-enabled tablets? I'm sure whatever Amazon is paying for bandwidth from Sprint isn't that expensive... most definitely cheaper than cellular data plans today (unless Amazon doesn't care about turning a profit). Amazon has got to be getting a good deal on the network bandwidth if they can make reading Wikipedia free. I want to pay whatever Amazon is paying for an EV-DO data plan.

On that note, can you edit Wikipedia on this beast? There is a keyboard...

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Satchmo Much has been made about how it echoes some of the original iPod's traits. From the white exterior to the black and white LCD display, right down to the $399 price point. The problem however it that this Kindle doesn't bring anything new to the table. While there were MP3 players before it, the iPod's ability to scroll through hundreds of songs and syncing it with the Mac was truly revolutionary.

Really? All the pre-iPod MP3 players stored hundreds of songs (indeed, many of them had larger capacities than the iPod) and they all synced to the computer too.

The Kindle does bring something new to the table - wireless browsing and buying - but even ignoring that, the iPod's "revolution" was how integrated the iPod was with iTunes (and, later, the iTunes Store). The Kindle is integrated with the largest bookstore in the world, and with lower prices for digital editions for a change. (More on that in a sec.)

Originally Posted by Satchmo Today, this level of interface usability is a given. Charging $400 won't fly this time around. I'm surprised they didn't take the inkjet selling model, where they basically give away the hardware and make money on the book fees.

That wouldn't work because Amazon is Amazon. One of the reason why other ebook stores have failed is because their ebooks were too expensive. Yes, ebook prices were lower than list, but so was Amazon - and, in most cases, Amazon had the ebook stores beat. But now Amazon themselves are selling ebooks - and their ebooks have to be cheaper than their glue-and-paper versions. Hence, the $9.99 hardcover.

[Robo]

Oh, and:

It apparently costs ten cents to send a PDF file to your Kindle's email (i.e., to read a PDF file on the Kindle, since reading PDFs on the SD card is unsupported).

Ew.

Comparison vs. Sony Reader:

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/1...-kindle-v.html

I know which one I'd rather take with me.

[atomicbartbeans]

Ha! I knew it... Amazon recoups network use charges by reaming people for activities that should be free (e.g. viewing PDFs... disallowing reading from an SD card makes you pay for Amazon's service).

Wired sums it up better than i can:

Kindle isn't so much a reader device as a portable DRM bookstore. At least you can slurp plaintext off of SD cards.

For $400, format neutrality should be assumed.

If nothing else, it will cut cheese.

[psmith2.0]

See? Stuff like that is what will turn people off. As I said in my first response, if you hassle and nickel-and-dime folks over stuff they're used to getting and doing for free, most won't like this.

BTW, how much space do text-only book (what format is used) files take up? What would, say, "Moby Dick" or "The Shining" take up, space-wise? A 300-400 page standard-size paperback? No graphics (maybe a cover?), but just B&W (or grayscale) text?

[atomicbartbeans]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 BTW, how much space do text-only book (what format is used) files take up? What would, say, "Moby Dick" or "The Shining" take up, space-wise? A 300-400 page standard-size paperback? No graphics (maybe a cover?), but just B&W (or grayscale) text?

Probably comparable to a song encoded in mp3... maybe a few songs.

I have a PDF of The Da Vinci Code lying around (please don't yell at me, for I own the book as well ) and it's just over a megabyte.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 See? Stuff like that is what will turn people off. As I said in my first response, if you hassle and nickel-and-dime folks over stuff they're used to getting and doing for free, most won't like this. BTW, how much space do text-only book (what format is used) files take up? What would, say, "Moby Dick" or "The Shining" take up, space-wise? A 300-400 page standard-size paperback? No graphics (maybe a cover?), but just B&W (or grayscale) text?

The figure I've seen bandied about most often is ~1MB/book. Like 4MB/song, this is obviously not true in all cases - you can expect Moby Dick to be a bit more - but the Sony Reader has 196MB of internal storage, which is equal to about 160 books, according to Sony. I'm not sure what format that is in - PDFs obviously take up more space than plain text.

EDIT: Gizmodo claims 300-400KB/book, for Kindle-formatted books.

I'm still trying to find out if you can move PDFs to the device's internal memory for free (since you can't move them to an SD card). I know Sprint has to be charging Amazon for the bandwidth, but damn...nickel and diming, indeed. But I'll forgive them for that if you can at least transfer PDFs, et al over USB.

[atomicbartbeans]

Huh... it doesn't even look very sturdy.

[Robo]

Nope - you can't send Word or PDF files over USB to the Kindle - they need to be "converted" by Amazon, so you have to email them to your Kindle (and pay the ten cent fee).

That just turned me off from the Kindle. I was even willing to forgive the higher price and awkward appearance ("don't judge a book by it's cover," and all that) but that's just ridiculous. Yeah, Sprint does charge Amazon money to send files over the air - so that's why Amazon should let users "convert" the files over USB.

Charging for blogs I don't have as much of a problem with. Part of the 99c/fee does go to the blog, and again - all that wireless data has to get paid for somehow. Even charging for wirelessly moving documents might be okay if there was at least a free, wired option. But nope.

The Kindle is the reader to get if you're looking to buy books through Amazon. Admittedly, $9.99 for a new release is a steal (I just paid $18 for Colbert's book, and I got it 30% off!), so this might be popular with the Oprah's-book-club types. (I do like that a PC is optional.) But for people who get books from other places - indie presses, other people, or even themselves - no free way to transfer those files to the Kindle is a dealbreaker. Amazon just got greedy, and it will bite them in the ass.

It makes their DRM-free music store seem almost hypocritical.

*sigh* Still waiting for someone to get ebooks right...

[Partial]

I guess I don't get the point of an eBook reader. PDF is just a nasty format to read a book in I will give you that. I wouldn't mind having Books online be in the form of a webpage with the text in an easy to read font similiar to what you see here, and just hit next at the bottom of each page to progress through the book.

[psmith2.0]

I keep going back to Apple's take on this (not a standalone reader, mind you...I think that's a limited slice of an already limited pie), but a larger iPod touch that does books and reading, etc.

They've already worked out all the cool eye candy with the iPhone and iPod touch, so when you're in "book reading" mode, you can flip the thing 90-degrees if you'd like to read wide columns at a larger size. Pinching and spreading is how you'd quickly zoom in or out, to your liking. Or you can do the tap and double-tap to take it to full page, fill screen, etc. settings.

And since it's a color screen and you'd have some options on that, you're not limited to "black text on white-ish paper". If you wanted to reverse it, you could, or you could choose the softness or starkness of the background "paper" color, etc. Maybe have the text a slightly softer 80% grey instead of jet black, etc.

That Apple tablet keeps getting talked about. It would make sense that this type of thing would be part of it, at that particular size. It's the one media/entertainment area they don't have their finger in, so they could easily ad it. And since they've got such a selection of audio books, they're in tight with the publishers to acquire, I would assume, the text-only/eBook formats for this stuff as well, and sell it at the online store.

Like everything else, have your eBooks purchased and managed through iTunes...something bazillions of people already use, know and trust (built-in user base, and a proven product).

Also, enable disk model/storage, so you can transfer PDFs and other files over, and read them just like you would on a Mac. Do all that, and include Address Book, Calendar, Wi-Fi/Safari, iTunes Store, iPod functions and photos and that would be a pretty damn sweet full fledged data/entertainment device. I bet a lot of people - readers and travelers - would opt for something like this over a full-on laptop.

Always going to be a market for MacBooks and MacBooks (because you couldn't run Photoshop and stuff like that on this tablet). But for someone not wanting to do that kinda of stuff, they might spend ~$500 on a proven (Apple) product that combines all the above features in a sleek, sexy package that ties into - and works perfectly with - the stuff they're already accustomed to using from Apple (making purchases from the iTunes store, syncing files and info, using the Multi-Touch interface and so on).

It would probably make this Amazon thing look like a chalkboard...

I assume, in my head, that the iPhone was the "test rabbit" for a larger fleet of Multi-Touch devices from Apple. It's just too good and intuitive to chain to only two small devices (iPhone and iPod touch). Surely it's destined for bigger, more mainstream uses?

Larger body (something in the 6x9 neighborhood?) and they could put a larger, longer-lasting battery in it than they can get in the already decent iPhone and iPod touch.

Wrap it in the that slick Ive magic and voila.

Oh, and here's your "killer app/feature"...comes with iSight. You take this thing, anywhere in the world, and you get online via Wi-Fi (since iChat requires that for video anyway) and BOOM...you're talking to your grandkids back in Kansas from the RV park in Florida or wherever. You're not schlepping a computer around, but you've got this amazing communication/stay-in-touch device that would appeal to so many.

And here's the second killer feature: you don't have to have a Mac or PC to use it. It acts as a standalone, self-contained device if you want it to be (manually entering in your Address Book, Calendar and Bookmarks on the device itself, creating a Yahoo! or Gmail web account and AIM account, buying music, movies and books (audio and text) from the iTunes store when you're in a Wi-Fi enabled area, etc. You could just charge it at the wall when you needed.

Aim it at that market, in some ways (the grandparents, traveling families, etc. and people who just want to use the device, as is, out of the box. The rest of us could, of course, use it like an iPhone or iPod touch, syncing it to our Macs and media libraries as usual). But it keeps computer-phobic Grandpa Fred from having to buy - and learn - a computer and an auxiliary devices like this, which might be overwhelming.

He just buys this one device, with a friendly, easy-to-learn touch interface and they're set.

[JohnnyTheA]

My Take:

1. First of all, the average American reads less than one book per year. So the market can't be that big.

2. Cost. If I used that to read books, I'd be afraid of leaving it on planes, dropping in the bathroom, getting it stolen. With a paperback, who cares? You can get a book traditional ink-on-paper book for <10 $ thats essentially disposable. Also, eventually this thing will wear out. So I THEN have to fork out another $300 just be able to read?

3. DRM. Does it use DRM? I haven't checked but I bet it does. With a paperback, I can give it to a friend after I read it. If this supports transferal of e-books to other kindles (after deletion) then thats okay I suppose... Ofcourse, if they had a subscription-based model, that would be cool. Read all the e-books you can for $20/month...

4. Utility. Exactly how is this better than normal book reading? The iPod was better than portable CD players because people actually wanted large amounts of songs on a portable device. People don't want to carry around 50 books to randomly read a different page at a time...

The only thing that I think might be good about this is if it made out-of-print books more accessible. The technology is kuel though...

JTA

[Robo]

Originally Posted by JohnnyTheA 1. First of all, the average American reads less than one book per year.

Source?

So the market can't be that big.

The average American doesn't have an iPod. Apple still makes those.

Originally Posted by JohnnyTheA 2. Cost. If I used that to read books, I'd be afraid of leaving it on planes, dropping in the bathroom, getting it stolen. With a paperback, who cares? You can get a book traditional ink-on-paper book for <10 $ thats essentially disposable. Also, eventually this thing will wear out. So I THEN have to fork out another $300 just be able to read?

The same arguement could be made for pretty much anything - iPods as opposed to CDs and inexpensive CD players, for example. Oh, and the cost will come down.

Originally Posted by JohnnyTheA 3. DRM. Does it use DRM? I haven't checked but I bet it does. With a paperback, I can give it to a friend after I read it. If this supports transferal of e-books to other kindles (after deletion) then thats okay I suppose... Ofcourse, if they had a subscription-based model, that would be cool. Read all the e-books you can for $20/month...

You can authorize up to six Kindles to one account. So you can buy a book, and give it to five friends. You don't even have to delete it (or finish reading it) first.

Originally Posted by JohnTheA 4. Utility. Exactly how is this better than normal book reading? The iPod was better than portable CD players because people actually wanted large amounts of songs on a portable device. People don't want to carry around 50 books to randomly read a different page at a time...

Questions like this tell me that you're really not in the target market for this, anyway. I'd jump at the opportunity to have my entire library in one half-inch-thick "book."

Originally Posted by JohnTheA The only thing that I think might be good about this is if it made out-of-print books more accessible.

If devices like the Kindle catch on, there will be no such thing as "out of print." And that's a very exciting idea.