[drewprops]

A friend of mine who is close to considering switching to the Mac said that he believes that the sound quality he hears from his PC is better than what he's heard from machines at the Apple Store. He says that he has a pretty good ear and that he can tell the difference between his machine and the stuff he's heard on the Macs at the store. I've always been happy with my machines, but I'm no audiophile. I told him that if his computer was his main music machine and was his most important buying decision that he should just buy a PC.

So what's the real deal with the sound cards in the current line of machines? What's in these things?

[ast3r3x]

How you going to do better than the digital output?

[The Return of the 'nut]

i dont understand. the apple stores dont have the same speakers as his house does.

that comparison is retarded.

[LudwigVan]

Originally Posted by The Return of the 'nut i dont understand. the apple stores dont have the same speakers as his house does. that comparison is retarded.

Not to mention just the difference between the in-store versus in-house environments as a whole.

[Luca]

If he wants a sound card, he can get a sound card. Onboard sound on Macs is much better than onboard sound on most PCs, but a sound card really does help the quality. If he wants good quality sound output on a Mac, he can get an M-audio Revolution (5.1 or 7.1). Those are cross-platform compatible.

EDIT: I agree with Murbot, btw. The guy is talking out of his ass. But if the availability of sound cards is a deciding factor, now you know they're available and you can tell him that.

[murbot]

Tell him he'd hear better if he pulled his head out of his ass.

I don't really mean that, but I thought I'd get it out of the way, and this way it's followed by a nice smiley and everything. You just know it's coming from someone. heh heh

But yeah, that's a little odd. You can't compare the listening environment in your home to a store with different flooring, furniture, acoustics, not to mention the background noise caused by all the other running machines, customers, etc, etc, etc, can you?

Must be one hell of an audiophile to be able to mentally filter that shit out, and to to mentally adjust the sound quality he hears to balance the speaker differences between the two places too.

[johnq]

Originally Posted by murbot But yeah, that's a little odd. You can't compare the listening environment in your home to a store with different flooring, furniture, acoustics, not to mention the background noise caused by all the other running machines, customers, etc, etc, etc, can you? Must be one hell of an audiophile to be able to mentally filter that shit out, and to to mentally adjust the sound quality he hears to balance the speaker differences between the two places too.

Hear, hear!

[drewprops]

Yeah Mur, I mentioned that very fact... there is no way for him to have comparative objectivity between one setting and another, but I could tell that this was becoming a vanity issue for this friend and I wasn't about to try to destroy his fantasy that he had this magical ability. I simply confessed my ignorance on the issue and told him that I'd investigate the issue and report back to him.

One of the things he was trying to cite was that Windows Media format was supposedly really good, but he really didn't have anything to back up that assertion and I just let him go with it figuring that I could list some information for him later.

Looking at the notebooks I don't expect to see audio that's terribly advanced. I -do- at least see that the audio specs are listed for the Powerbooks. Going to Dell's site for comparison revealed that they don't even divulge exactly WHAT kind of audio their books have.

Certainly there must be SOME PCs that are truly tricked out audio-wise and I'm sure that he got this idea from somewhere. But if he's going to try to make a case like that then he ought to come armed with some facts.

I got the feeling he was looking for an excuse to wimp out on buying a Mac since he's gotten so vocal about buying one here lately. I'd like to make him squirm just a bit if I can

I wonder how many musicians use Macs.......... ?

[Koodari]

Originally Posted by drewprops Yeah Mur, I mentioned that very fact... there is no way for him to have comparative objectivity between one setting and another, but I could tell that this was becoming a vanity issue for this friend and I wasn't about to try to destroy his fantasy that he had this magical ability. I simply confessed my ignorance on the issue and told him that I'd investigate the issue and report back to him. ... I got the feeling he was looking for an excuse to wimp out on buying a Mac since he's gotten so vocal about buying one here lately. I'd like to make him squirm just a bit if I can

Don't.

Yeah, he's wrong and he's an idiot, yada yada yada. But this, if any, is a situation where you should heed the old saying "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." If he was an impersonal type that sticks to the facts, you could spit out the facts and have your fun. But you say he isn't, so just comment on the environment and that there is better audio for the Mac, don't argue, and very possibly he'll buy a Mac some day. If he has an unconscious memory of being wrong and feeling awkward related to Macs, that can really affect his decision. No kidding.

[dfiler]

I recently got an M-Audio Revolution 7.1. It sounds fantastic using either analog or digital interconnects. Really, I had no need for the card, as I don't do any AV production work. But, as a self-proclaimed audiophile, I was lusting after a little more crispness and detail then provided by the built in audio hardware.

The Revolution is a drastic improvement. Even non-audiophile friends can tell the difference.

However it hasn't been without hiccups. At first I couldn't get audio out of my iSight's built in mic when the revolution drivers were installed. Magically one day... it started working. This was of course after numerous uninstall, reinstalls, and system reconfigurations proved of no use.

I now have three audio outputs. Built in analog in addition to the revolution's analog and digital outputs. This is convenient because my Mac is used as a home theater computer in my study. VLC output movies in 7.1 analog to my receiver while iTunes outputs digital to my stereo computer speakers.

The M-Audio revolution isn't intended as a gamers card and has a higher CPU overhead than creative cards (on windows). However, it does offer exceptional quality for it's price range. Many reviewers claim that it offers better fidelity than the various sound blasters. For what it's worth, they claim over 107db signal to noise ratio. When hooked up to my denon componentry, it does indeed sound more detailed than my other sources.

Until recently, M-audio was Midi-man, and produced mostly professional audio gear. It seems that the revolution card has inherited the pro sound quality.

Tell your friend about M-Audio's Revolution 7.1

[EDIT]

Oh but wait... I forgot that the G5 has toslink output. I'm using the M-Audio card on an old G4. I have no idea how the newer built in audio hardware sounds.

[drewprops]

Originally Posted by Koodari Don't. Yeah, he's wrong and he's an idiot, yada yada yada. But this, if any, is a situation where you should heed the old saying "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." If he was an impersonal type that sticks to the facts, you could spit out the facts and have your fun. But you say he isn't, so just comment on the environment and that there is better audio for the Mac, don't argue, and very possibly he'll buy a Mac some day. If he has an unconscious memory of being wrong and feeling awkward related to Macs, that can really affect his decision. No kidding.

Thanks Koodari, I was headed back here to post a comment that I had "seen the light" and wasn't about to do anything to piss off or belittle this friend because what would that prove? Nothing. That's some great advice and exactly what I intend to do.

[Luca]

Dfiler, there's also a newer Revolution 5.1 available that costs a bit less. From what I've heard, the sound quality is actually slightly better as they've made a few tweaks to the older 7.1 version.

[BenRoethig]

It would be nice if Apple were to reach out a bit and offer native support for both the Soundblaster and Revolution series as well as EAX up to 4.0. OSX's only real weakness has been device support.