Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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I didn't watch the speech, but did Joe really stand in front of a red illuminated building talking about the need to eradicate his political opponent? All while "promoting unity"? I mean, Gizmodo did an article about how Trump supporters are filling their diapers. While I didn't read that article either, it seems like it would support this assertion. What was the actual point of the speech? Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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To fill MAGAt's diapers, apparently. Watch for yourself. |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Understand, I'm not trying to incite strife here in AN. We generally respect each other even if we disagree on subjects. I come here because we can have a civilized discussion. I'm not a "Trumper" or MAGA flag waver, though I do believe our nation is heading in the wrong direction. Socialism is not where we should be going. I will try to watch that video so I can speak for myself on what I see though. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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@kk@pennytucker.social
Join Date: Jan 2005
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While I understand you bringing up Antifa and BLM, only one group has actually stormed the US Capitol and tried to overthrow the government: MAGA Republicans.
While far fringe groups on both sides clearly do not represent the vast majority of people in the US, one side is fighting for social justice and social welfare, while the other side is fighting to overturn elections and seed doubt in any future election in which they don't win. Hell, a lot of Republicans are tweeting this week that the ranked choice voting in Alaska disenfranchised Republicans, even though the system was overwhelmingly approved by Alaskans and the Democratic candidate would have won on a straight vote anyway. Republicans split their ticket and couldn't consolidate behind a single candidate and it lost them a congressional seat. No more Twitter. It's Mastodon now. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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So, I actually watched this video and I find it very hypocritical. The whole point of this is "down with Trump and his supporters." While at about 14:30, Joe talks about violence in the streets and protests like that being unacceptable and yet Antifa and BLM did just that with nothing stopping them. Violence isn't acceptable in this country but who is prosecuting the violent protestors in those actions?
I'm glad people are doing time and being held accountable for Jan 6th, but where is that for those destroying cities, personal property that isn't theirs? While saying he won't stand by and watch, what did he do? What did his party do? If you all where honest with yourself and remove a party affiliation or even a political ideal, how is allowing cities and personal property to be destroyed while letting those caught walk free with no punishment acceptable? The rule of law was quoted multiple times in that speech and yet I'm seeing law breakers walk free to commit the same crimes again and again. I'm seeing police being personally attacked and defunded and yet we operate under the rule of law? How can anyone not see the hypocrisy here? So really, it was a Biden pep rally with a slam of a political opponent. Of course he isn't going to point out his faults, I get that. However, I do see him as being the pot calling the kettle black. There is no way that is makes sense how this "speech" was anything but dividing the country and an attempt to discredit Trump more than he has already done himself. Heck, Joe has apparently put out a statement this morning to "clarify" the divisiveness spoken last night. 709, I didn't bother reading the article from Gizmodo because with a title like that, clearly it is nothing but bias. Here is a reference for you though with the URL where you can feel free to read it if you wish. Gizmodo title has been updated, but the URL is still mostly the same: gizmodo.com/donald-trump-fill-diapers-joe-biden-speech-maga-twitter-1849488910 As an armchair look on this, Joe would have been better off not targeting Trump or his supports but rather promote the agendas he thinks should be moved forward. Liz Cheney was voted out because she moved from what she stood by to who she hated. Who wants a politician who focuses on who they hate as opposed to the good they are going to do/are doing? I think Joe did more to galvanize the far right than he did to draw people more center. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Remember when Hillary Clinton called the right a "basket of deplorables"? That kind of attitude is what got Trump elected in the first place. Repeat your mistakes to your own destruction. If Democrats don't want Trump reelected, the best thing they can do is stop calling his supporters names. - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...b9f_story.html
I think we have to get past comparing right and left fringe groups. Mostly this is a kind of “whataboutism” used when the Right wants to play victim. As far as security threats go Antifah and BLM aren’t even gnat on America’s morbidly obese ass. Compared to right wing militias and white supremacist groups - whose threat is real, present, growing and verified by credible law enforcement and national security experts (like the FBI among others) - the threat of left wing terrorism in the US is little more than an invention by right wing “rage farmers.” The left has its problems, but the threat of lawlessness, much less terrorism ain’t coming from them. I’ve been thinking about this a lot as I get older. I find I don’t fit neatly into left-right political axes. I have a lot of sympathy for different sets of ideals from both sides. I don’t particularly care for the quasi-intellectual identity politics of the left, it’s pernicious and counter productive, and often disingenuous. It’s beginning to endanger a generations’ capacity for critical thinking and objective reason. I don’t particularly care for the historically veiled discrimination on the right, and despise what’s become its open celebration of ignorance masquerading as legitimate skepticism. |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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The story you linked to has zero relevance to the fact that Joe and his administration did nothing about the damage those "peaceful" protestors were doing and the hard they were causing. People lost their livelihoods and property while the admin did nothing.
This isn't about "oh yeah, we aren't as bad as so and so" or we aren't as bad as you. However Joe came out swinging and he has blood on his hands. He's pointing at the MAGA crowd as the ultimate evil in this land and yet the most damage they have done was one protest on the Capital building. Those in that protest are being punished, what about the ultra-left? Where are their court hearings and what charges are being filed on them? Your perspective is far different from mine. You say the ultra-right is worse, but they don't have the same track record. In fact, other than a couple of protests that were pretty bad, they have been tame. Compare that to any other protest since around that start of the pandemic. The MAGA crowd wasn't destroying cities. Burning down buildings and hurting those in their way. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
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I still can't get over how the visuals of that speech are just off-the-wall insane.
As many have said on Twitter, they CHOSE those visuals to make their case. What kind of people are in charge here? They looked at that stage and thought "this will demonstrate that our enemies are the fascists." |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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Notwithstanding that far right terror outnumbers far left by about 5:1 in comparison of plot/incidents/murders, context also matters.
BLM protest related damages are not acceptable, but they are part of a different problem. The protests themselves are a response to unacceptable racial violence that continues to be visited against black people by the institution that is supposed to serve and protect them. Often BLM protesters have been met with violent counter protest which should be factored equally in the damage tolls to public and private property. The protests themselves more closely meet the definition of civil unrest, not terrorism. Far right terrorism, not protest, plots and kills with significantly greater frequency, and what’s more tends to emanate from within police, military, and ex military communities which compound the seriousness of the security threat. I don’t really care about Biden’s speech. I just don’t think there’s any real equivocations to be made between BLM problems and right wing extremist problems. |
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meh
Join Date: May 2004
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If you want to label all the protests as violent during BLM protests, then every single person who thinks 2020 was stolen, those that went to the main Jan 6th rally( but didn't go to the capital) should be locked up and labeled as a traitor and insurrectionist as well. You know damn well the majority was peaceful, but with bad elements mixed in. Just like January 6th rally had( IMHO stupid), but peaceful people then the idiots who decided to take it a step further and storm the capital. But of course the media you decide to follow only shows the violence. Still remember Fox News showing an image saying it was Place A, but it was really Place B that occurred weeks/months ago just to feed their narrative. BUT...... Certainly both sides need to do better at policing their own side vs doing the hypocritical pointing out when the opposing side does something stupid, but ignore when they themselves pull the same stupid maneuver. giggity |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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I have been busy elsewhere, but this thread is interesting.
First of all, I'll grant that the stagecraft didn't project peace. But that's it. Biden was NOT the President when those protests resulted in property damage and loss of life. That happened on Trump's watch. None of the other former Presidents stole classified documents, lied about stealing them, then complained when they were shown to be lying about stealing the classified documents, comparing them to overdue library books. AND he wants to pardon and apologize to the people who are going to the pokey for attacking the Capitol? How is this even a real thing? I don't want to live in a totalitarian socialist state, but I'm not willing to usher in a totalitarian fascist state to prevent it. Let Democracy Work. ... |
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Sneaky Punk
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Sadly this seems to be the way we are headed in the west, democracy is dying because people simply don’t believe in it. The thing that saddens me the most is I hear the left and the right scream out, “democracy!”, and “justice!”, but both sides only believe it to be democratic/just if you agree with them 100%, anything else is totalitarian/fascist/communist etc.
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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You do realize I'm not justifying those idiots to raided the Capitol building right? Remember, I want then held accountable too. I have sworn an oath to protect and defend the Constitution and I still hold to that oath even though I'm a civilian now. All I'm saying, over and over again, is that the far left "demonstrators" aren't being held accountable for their actions and in some cases being promoted to do so. The right has "MAGA and the Jan 6th incident" where the left has BLM and Antifa that stand out. Sadly those left groups have whole years of activity with no repercussions where the Jan 6th group is still working their way through the courts and getting real sentences. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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meh
Join Date: May 2004
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https://www.foxnews.com/us/2021-protests-riots Sure there were protests and sometimes it turned violent with OMG arrests! Sounds like the violent elements getting held accountable. giggity |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Interesting article. I don't actually use Fox News so this was something I've not seen before. To the point about that article, how many who were arrested actually stayed in jail, were prosecuted or otherwise actually faced charges other than catch and release? General searching isn't promising that they were anything but catch and release. This might be good for sport fishing but sucks for criminal management. However, really that is a problem with blue political management, not the President. He does the country, not local and state level affairs.
Checking the link did bring me to this response from DeSantis though which I happen to find very well stated and to the point. Quote:
Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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meh
Join Date: May 2004
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Biden opened the border, yet same time fought to keep Title 42 in effect that allowed for quick removals of illegal immigrants.
Allowing them in to quickly kick them out? https://www.npr.org/2021/09/20/10389...immigration-po That’s a speech aimed at his own campaign aspirations. Note: I can’t stand politics. It’s dirty, manipulative, etc. I’m pissed off at both sides even though I know I’m not coming across that way in this thread. Yes turtle the violent elements of BLM, etc should absolutely be held accountable. If the left controlled cities are not doing anything to prosecute them, then it’s an absolute joke. Just like it’s a fucking joke we have the right doing gymnastics over January 6th and the raid at Mar a lago. But the primaries are showing if you cross dear leader, you get voted out. You’re only a true republican if you’re 100% loyal to Trump. It’s the same on the left. Progressives pissed at Manchin and Sinema for being moderates. This move to “purity” is going to destroy this country. Politics is not a sports game. If you can’t call out your own side and criticize them for their actions, then this country has no hope. giggity Last edited by Quagmire : 2022-09-03 at 13:09. |
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Well, as I said, the first paragraph was really the point of me sharing it here. Also the reason I (ultimately started the thread, thanks Ken) because it was so hypocritical of creating unity.
Creating unity in two very different groups is hard. But name calling and finger pointing has NEVER unified a group like that. Unless it was to get both groups to finger point and name call someone else together. So I'm not delving into ever facet of how I disagree with Democrat/Progressive/Socialist political views. We would all just have agree to disagree here. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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meh
Join Date: May 2004
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giggity |
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The majority of the US (but indeed not a vast majority) voted for him; that's why he's President. |
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Sneaky Punk
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Even in places like Texas, which one would think of as being hard core republican, Trump had less than a 10% lead in votes, and only 3.3% in Florida. The election was reasonably close in all but middle part of the country, California and few states in the north east. Last edited by PB PM : 2022-09-03 at 14:24. |
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How so? In a parliamentary election, the Democrats would have gotten 51.3% of the seats and been able to form a majority government. |
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Sneaky Punk
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Of course, if I don't respond when I see it I end up forgetting about it and never reply. Either because the moment is gone or I've completely lost interest anyway. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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I’m going to avoid left and right here, but let’s just run with this thought for a bit. I’m not sure unity should ever be a primary goal. Who are we asking to unite? To use an antiquated term, and in the antiquated sense, shared “virtues” are needed before we can talk sensibly of “unity”, or there’s nothing with which to bind people. Democracy and Patriotism are just hollow terms unless preceded by some virtue that enables them. They are earned, not given. I believe there are still enough people who share certain essential enabling virtues - knowledge, curiosity, creativity, independence, sound judgement, courage, resilience, self-sacrifice - but not so many that we can take it for granted they will easily carry a growing number who don’t. Certain deficits endanger the critical mass needed to sustain a democracy: these are psychical rather than political. All the talk of extreme left and right is misleading in a way.
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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Well this is an interesting tweet.
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It is really prevalent in the CNN video. Now, I don't know if it was doctored for the tweet (as in faked) or if CNN really did change the color, but it sure looks like they did compared to the CSPAN video. Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.” Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it. |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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I'm as visually stimulated as the next guy, but criticism of the visuals is a yawner for me this time around. I don't know if you heard or read the actual speech so I'm including it below, so you can concentrate on criticizing the message:
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