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Learning to play the guitar
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Satchmo
can't read sarcasm.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
2008-03-26, 09:22

I've always wanted to pick up the guitar. Well I did a number of years back, but never stuck with it. Took a continuing education class but after that ended, so did my playing.

Just wondering for those who do play, how long it took you to be proficient at it?
Is private one on one training the best way to learn or were you self taught?
Is there a beginner (acoustic) guitar you would recommend (for someone with short fingers)?
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Dave
Ninja Editor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
 
2008-03-26, 09:34

1) Don't know. I'll update you when I get there.
2) Most of what I know, I learned from private lessons, but whatever works for you.
3) I would recommend the guitar that sounds best to you and is easy to play. They make smaller "kid" models, but I wouldn't bother because, AFAIK, they don't make *good* kid guitars. If you end up really liking it, you'll have to kinda re-train yourself to play a full-size guitar. There is one thing you can do, though. They make guitars with different "Scale Lengths", which refers to how long the strings are. I'd start my search with shorter Scale Lengths, because that places the frets closer together. At least at first. Who knows? Maybe your fingers aren't as short as you think they are. Oh, and play some really nice ones before you buy anything. I'm not suggesting you actually get one for your first guitar, but I've seen some super crappy entry-level guitars, and this way you'll know what a good one feels like.
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SKMDC
superkaratemonkeydeathcar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: chicago
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2008-03-26, 10:27

I've been playing 35 years and I still suck!
actually my skill level has deteriorated due to my lack of practice time owing to three children trying to bash up my guitar or play in the case, plus my old lady sleeps during the day so I cannot achieve the desired maximum amplification needed to play. (lousy excuse)

My advice is to find a teacher who can get you started, one who will teach you basics but also allow you to follow a direction that you would like to pursue. Carrot and a stick if you will.
My first teacher and I did Mel Bay (an instruction series) one week and Allman Brothers 101 the next. (Hey it was 1972! and Duanne was god, I still have my glass Coricidan bottle slide! and a vintage Cry-Baby Wah Wah pedal.)

Get a good first guitar, many guitarists dreams have gone down in flames by a warped neck,or an ax that won't stay in tune. I would recommend getting a semi hollow body electric if you someday want to go electric. Go into a reputable Guitar store and tell the salesperson what's what. If he's an Asshat and doesn't want to deal with a beginner then find someone else, this guy can help you find a teacher and other elementary things. A good Guitar geek is a good friend to have.

It will take about 3-6 months for your fingertips to get callused and your hands to learn the coordination for playing well, so persevere those first few months and someday you'll be able to say you've been playing 40 years.

Once you have some proficiency, play with other people, i learned more from a roadie guitar tech in a couple of afternoons that in a whole bunch of lessons.

John Coltrane never quit taking lessons. Never.

"What's a Canadian farm boy to do?"
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faust
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
 
2008-03-26, 10:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satchmo View Post
I've always wanted to pick up the guitar. Well I did a number of years back, but never stuck with it. Took a continuing education class but after that ended, so did my playing.

Just wondering for those who do play, how long it took you to be proficient at it?
Is private one on one training the best way to learn or were you self taught?
Is there a beginner (acoustic) guitar you would recommend (for someone with short fingers)?
My gf is petite so I was worried when getting her a guitar that it would be too deep for her to get her arms around.

Some guitarist I know recommended a Takamine Acoustic/Electric unit because it was shallow and it could be plugged into an amp for extra fun. It was a major hit 2 xmas ago, she loves it because she can manage it. The guitar was the EG561 http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...tar?sku=516415

She played piano and some win instruments in school as a kid so she started her guitar learning by following some books and then did a few months of 1x a week lessons before going it alone again because of our move and her demanding job.
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thegelding
feeling my oats
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: there are nice people here...that makes me happy
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2008-03-26, 11:42

i'm getting pretty good at guitar on rock band...i might go on tour

g
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2008-03-26, 11:57

Satchmo, I started off with a yard-sale guitar and a Mel Bay chord book. Simply learning the major and minor chords will get you through 92% of pop/rock/country/folk/blues stuff. Just getting the transitions down, physically, and getting your fingers calloused enough on the tips that it no longer "hurt" to play were the two biggest obstacles that I seemed to face.

From there on, it was simply learning how to play existing songs. Training my ear to detect - or anticipate - chord changes. After a while it dawned on me "holy crap, so many songs have the same sorts of patterns!", instantly tripling my repertoire.



It helps to have like-minded, enthusiastic buddies to play with, share tips and ideas, etc.

Regarding formal "lessons", I can see both sides to it. I took a handful, at my Dad's insistence, even though the teacher was a classical guy, a bit of a snob and very unhelpful and condescending. When I dreaded my weekly lessons, that should've been all the red flag needed. I learned zero from him.

Depending on the type of player you want to be - and the type of music you like or want to pursue - I don't think "reading music" is required. Basic theory, however, is. I could stumble my way through some sheet music if I absolutely had to (but I don't want to), but I can tell you why a minor chord is that way, or what makes a diminished chord what it is. And, after 27 years, I can "hear" them in songs. That's a very helpful, powerful skill to have.

I can hear a song on the radio that I've never heard before, and I can "map it out" in my head. That simply comes from focusing on chords and patterns so early on, and learning songs, song structure, knowing how two chords sound against each other, leading to one another, etc.

I have to give full credit to the Beatles, CCR and Buddy Holly on that particular front. Between those three, I learned so much about chords and songs. The lead playing came later, after I felt like I had a solid foundation, and knew why I'd be playing certain notes and not others over a particular chord progression...

I guess what I'm trying to say is: you gotta crawl before you can walk...and you gotta walk before you can run.

I know so many people who took "lessons" as a teen or whatever, and all they did was pay some stoner or certified "dude" to show them the lead licks to whatever popular song was out at the time. Fine. But they had no clue whatsoever about anything beyond those rote, practiced notes...or how to embellish or expand on them, or how to swap a few notes out and get a different type of sound altogether.

Learn your chords, learn your songs. That's the best advice I can give, only because it's served me so well for nearly three decades. You might be into a different, more complex type of music and players, so you might have to tweak the above "formula" a bit more to your liking. But I learned how to play guitar from a couple of chord books, The Beatles and simply "listening" and training my ear to pick up transitions and patterns during those earliest months and years of playing.

Not only does it give you a strong foundation to build on (and great ear training!), but it makes you a total hit with the chicks because instead of being a go-nowhere noodler, playing "high and fast on the neck" (which nobody really cares about, especially if they're not a guitarist or musician themselves), you can whip out an actual song - chords, lyrics, melodies, transitions, etc. - that sounds like something they know from the radio.

Instant studification! You lay a Chris Isaak, Goo Goo Dolls, Tom Petty or Gin Blossoms song on group of vixens (or James Taylor, Eagles, Van Morrison or Jackson Browne if they're vixens of the older persuasion), and you're pretty much in.



Trust me on this...
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Yontsey
*AD SPACE FOR SALE*
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cleveland-ish, OH
 
2008-03-26, 12:02

I've been playing for about 6-7 years and I am 100% completely self taught. It honestly took me a long time before I could play the type of stuff I wanted too, but I eventually got there. Hell, I didn't even know chords until about 2-3 years after playing. Well I knew some of them, but never knew what chord they were.

The main thing you need to do is just practice, practice, practice. Even when I'm not playing with my band, I play my acoustic everyday sometimes for hours. I keep it right next to my computer desk so whenever I'm just chattin with people online or surfing, I just jam away and write.

I agree with Faust. I have an acoustic electric and I love it. I have a Ibanez PF series, though I don't remember which one exactly off the top of my head. I like the acoustic electric because it's nice when you're playing live or recording.

I would vouch for the Ibanez but Takamines are also rad guitars. Best thing to do is go to your local Guitar Center or Sam Ash and just hang around for awhile and jam on them and see which one you like the best sound from and which one sounds the most comfortable with.

By the way, what's your price range for a guitar?

Die young and save yourself....
@yontsey
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2008-03-26, 12:23

Don't play guitar. Banjo is more rewarding.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2008-03-26, 12:26

...unless you do it in the pretentious, unlistenable way that Bela Fleck does.

*ducks and hides from resident Fleckies and hackysackers*

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SKMDC
superkaratemonkeydeathcar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: chicago
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2008-03-26, 12:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrao View Post
Don't play guitar. Banjo is more rewarding.
Actually if you want rewards and instant gratification the accordion really pulls the birds as Beatle George once said.
I'm serious.
  quote
Satchmo
can't read sarcasm.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
2008-03-26, 12:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Not only does it give you a strong foundation to build on (and great ear training!), but it makes you a total hit with the chicks because instead of being a go-nowhere noodler, playing "high and fast on the neck" (which nobody really cares about, especially if they're not a guitarist or musician themselves), you can whip out an actual song - chords, lyrics, melodies, transitions, etc. - that sounds like something they know from the radio.
Yeah, I admit it...that's what it's all about.

I have a neighbour who plays for a living, so I might approach him to teach. But I hear ya about starting slow and learning the basics. I suppose some are naturally gifted in picking up music and hearing the differences right away. Me thinks, I'm not one of those.
But it's handy that the Beatles can serve as a learning tool since I know their music so well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yontsey
By the way, what's your price range for a guitar?
No idea. Probably the low end of the decent quality brands? Do you know what one like that goes for?
Also, I like the whole acoustic/electric combo Takamine that Faust posted, but I always felt that learning off a purely acoustic guitar was the better way to start.
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Yontsey
*AD SPACE FOR SALE*
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cleveland-ish, OH
 
2008-03-26, 13:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satchmo View Post
Also, I like the whole acoustic/electric combo Takamine that Faust posted, but I always felt that learning off a purely acoustic guitar was the better way to start.
There really is no difference between an acoustic and an acoustic/electric. All that means is that in the hollow body of the acoustic theres a pickup in there and an input on the side. Trust me, theres no difference.

Die young and save yourself....
@yontsey
  quote
Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2008-03-26, 13:42

I bought an acoustic/electric guitar in Australia for about $200 AU, which was about $180 USD. It is excellent. Meanwhile, Takamine makes some pretty solid guitars in the $150-$300 price range. You really don't need to spend very much money to get a decent sounding, playable instrument that will stay in tune. Whether or not it will sound decent when you play it out of tune however...
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Wrao
Yarp
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Road Warrior
 
2008-03-26, 13:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
...unless you do it in the pretentious, unlistenable way that Bela Fleck does.
No argument there.
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Swox
OK Mr. Sunshine!
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
 
2008-03-26, 15:36

Since you're in Toronto, I have to recommend Long and McQuade. Their acoustic guitar guy is a bit gruff (if you get the same guy I did), but he's really knowledgeable, and they're not on commission, so you can sit there for hours trying out different guitars. Their prices are good, and you get a free set up with your purchase (I did, at least, but I think they give it out on all guitar sales - check first).

I really recommend getting the most playable and nicest sounding guitar you can afford. If you buy one that's hard to play or doesn't sound nice, you're not likely to stick with it. A guitar that's playable and sounds beautiful will keep you practicing.

Go in with a fixed maximum price in mind, and ask them for guitars in that range. I recommend getting a full body acoustic (not a cutaway), as you're not likely to be playing up there, and it takes away from the sound.

Don't worry about whether it's an acoustic-electric or not, unless you intend to plug it in (i.e. for playing live - for recording you'd want a mic anyway). Try out a bunch of acoustics, and pick the one that you like the most.

Also keep in mind that every acoustic sounds different, even if they're the same brand and model number. Try them all out - seriously, plan to spend an hour or two at least playing different guitars.

If you've got a grand plus to spend on a guitar, I highly recommend Larrivee acoustics. Canadian made, and the best guitars in that price range, hands down.

That's my advice on purchasing.

Learning to play is practice, practice, practice. Once you get your fingers going a bit, learn some basic theory. A bit goes a long way on guitar because you can just transpose every scale and chord up or down the neck. Learning some theory was the best thing that I've done for my musicianship - you're really just guessing until you learn it.

Learning an instrument takes a lot of time, but it sure pays off. My wife loves my playing (at least someone does), and it nurtures my artistic side. The time it takes to get to be proficient depends on how long and consistently you practice for, and how good you want to get.

Hope you have fun making music!

Do not be oppressed by the forces of ignorance and delusion! But rise up now with resolve and courage! Entranced by ignorance, from beginningless time until now, You have had more than enough time to sleep. So do not slumber any longer, but strive after virtue with body, speech, and mind!
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Satchmo
can't read sarcasm.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
2008-03-26, 16:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swox View Post
If you've got a grand plus to spend on a guitar, I highly recommend Larrivee acoustics. Canadian made, and the best guitars in that price range, hands down.

That's my advice on purchasing.

!
Thanks for the suggestion on the local store. But $1K is definitely out of my range. And as much as I would love to play on a regular basis, I know that sometimes work and life gets in the way. That kind of investment can certainly be made once I knew I was progressing and getting better at it. As it is now, I'm really at the beginner level so certainly my budget would be probably about half or even less than that.
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SKMDC
superkaratemonkeydeathcar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: chicago
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2008-03-26, 16:49

I would look at used stuff, as long as it's a quality name the age of the instrument won't really matter if you go to a reputable dealer.

"What's a Canadian farm boy to do?"
  quote
Swox
OK Mr. Sunshine!
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
 
2008-03-26, 18:43

One more thing: if you get an acoustic, make sure you keep it properly humidified. The guy at Long and McQuade will tell you all about it, and he's not kidding. Our winters will warp and kill your new purchase in no time flat. Even though it stays above 50% humidity in Toronto almost all winter, if your house has central air heating, chances are your home is way lower than that. Get the little humidifier he recommends ($20 or so I think), and check it every day.

Some advice on the humidifier: Fill it all the way, don't dump out the crystals, don't over fill it, do up the top TIGHTLY, and fill it about every 5 days - you can tell it needs some filling when it gets all scrunched up.

If you go the used route, you need ot be careful that the guitar has been properly taken care of - I think frets.com has some advice on that point. I'm not 100% sure, but I have to run out to a lecture.

Best of luck, and happy playing

Do not be oppressed by the forces of ignorance and delusion! But rise up now with resolve and courage! Entranced by ignorance, from beginningless time until now, You have had more than enough time to sleep. So do not slumber any longer, but strive after virtue with body, speech, and mind!
  quote
dmegatool
Custom User Title
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: At home
 
2008-03-26, 20:29

I think the advices pscates gave it's so right. I've been playing for like 8 eight years now (really not often in the last 3-4 years). I learned myself and I think I'm pretty good. I can nail some megadeth songs with the solos (well... the easiest solos :P). You know what I mean...

After all this time, I would take a lesson because I really feel like I'm playing notes, not music. I would like to understand a little bit more what I do. Maybe not read music sheets but understand the neck of the guitar from top to bottom.

The key is to be motivated. I never had a band or such so I learned alone in my room. What I was doing just trying to play the songs I loved the most. I was keeping a list of songs to play and when I was hearing a cool one, I would add it. I always play with the songs in the background so you kinda jam with the band. You can of course just improvise over an actual songs wich is cool too

SKMDC gave a good advice too with the used stuff. I bought my guitar for 600$. It's a Ibanez 1985. I tried some 1300$ Ibanez (new) that was pretty much the same (Not the same cause your guitar is your guitar). So for half the price...

Dave Mustaine :"God created whammy bars for people who don't know how to solo."
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zsummers
Avast!
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New York?
 
2008-04-15, 18:29

Anyone know the L.A. area well enough to recommend a guitar shop? Especially one that will be patient with a noob?

My wheelhouse for a guitar is probably right in Sachmo's: something in the $150-300 range, that both my wife and I can play (which means a smaller body, thinner neck, smaller scale). I've played a smidge before (though on bass, mostly, with only some beginner work on guitar). My wife hasn't, but is an accomplished piano player--but with small hands. Any recommendations or thoughts would be appreciated.

"How could you falter / when you're the Rock of Gibralter? / I had to get off the boat so I could walk on water. / This ain't no tall order. / This is nothing to me. / Difficult takes a day. / Impossible takes a week."
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Dave
Ninja Editor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
 
2008-04-15, 19:16

If you've got good Spidey Sense, you could try one of the Guitar Centers down there. Most of their salespeople are mostly useless, but there're sometimes the odd gem in there. If LA is the same as DFW, about 1 per store. Oh, and if you go to Guitar Center (or any other instrument retailer, AFAIK), the price they paid to get the guitar in the door is about half the list price, plus shipping. That's why they can afford to always be having such huge sales. A fair price, at least around here, is generally considered to be around %60 - %70 of the list price, plus tax. That way you're not getting ripped off, and the store still makes something.
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