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All those years ago...
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2005-12-08, 09:57

December 8, 1980...John Lennon was shot and killed outside his building in New York City.

I can't believe it's been that long...25 years.

I was in sixth grade, and, oddly enough, had just become aware of the Beatles that previous summer, along with a buddy who'd found his Mom's old LPs in trunk. That's what got me playing guitar, so when this happened and I heard it on the news (riding to school the next morning), unlike every other kid in my class I knew EXACTLY who he was, and why this was a big deal.



As I've gotten older (and maybe more cynical?), some of that aura of his has dimmed a bit. I wasn't much into the post-1967 John, or post-Beatles, although I admire him for speaking out on the things he considered important, and being active in several causes (I guess he might've been the Bono prototype)?



Although I was more of a George man, John had the best voice in the Beatles. And some of his songs - "Tomorrow Never Knows", "Norwegian Wood" and "Strawberry Fields Forever" - are still quite stunning and beautiful, this many years on. They don't sound 40 years old, do they?

He was more (and bigger) to some, for entirely different reasons. But I always choose my memory of him to be forever 25, in a sharp suit and that Rickenbacker strapped on...and maybe he's singing and strumming with his old mate?



Rest in peace, guys. A lot of us still miss you.
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sunrain
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Portlandia
 
2005-12-08, 10:56

I hadn't put on a Beatles album in several months until this morning. As I was listening, it hit me what day it was.

Nice sentiments, scates.
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spotcatbug
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Clayton, NC
 
2005-12-08, 12:14

Speaking of John Lennon, I've been hearing a radio promo for an NPR show about him. In the promo, they keep referring to him as "John Ono-Lennon". Is that his legal name?

Ugh.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2005-12-08, 12:19

He was born John Winston Lennon. He took Ono, later on, as a gesture to Yoko. At least that's the story I've always read.

Whatever the reason, Ono was definitely not his original middle name.



EDIT: ah, here we go...from Wikipedia:

Quote:
As with the "Bed-In" campaign, Lennon and Ono usually advocated their causes with whimsical demonstrations, such as Bagism, first introduced during a Vienna press conference. Shortly after, Lennon changed his middle name from Winston to Ono to show his "oneness" with his new wife. Lennon wrote "The Ballad of John and Yoko" about his marriage and the subsequent press it generated.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2005-12-08 at 12:26.
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Grip
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Los Angeles
 
2005-12-08, 14:25

I found out the next morning on the bus to school from my friends. I was so sad. True story/coincidence: when I came home from school that day, I found that my Beatles poster over my bed had partially fallen down from the upper 2 corners.

My first vinyl record(s) I ever bought was the Beatles "blue" double-album. It was a complilation album of their hits from 1967-1970. I played those songs over and over until the grooves were practially worn out.

Yeah, it is hard to believe that was 25 years ago.

Last edited by Grip : 2005-12-08 at 20:31.
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macgeek2006
Genius
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
 
2005-12-08, 15:07

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought it was gonna be "From the moment we first met, all those years ago, not a day has gone by that I haven't thought of you" from Attack of the Clones. hehe.

By the way, my name is Lennon.
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bb823
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2005-12-08, 15:15

One more Star Wars reference from a MacGeek...

Last edited by bb823 : 2005-12-08 at 19:24. Reason: because I can't spell....
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2005-12-08, 15:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grip
My first vinyl record(s) I ever bought was the Beatles "blue" double-album. It was a complilation album of their hits from 1967-1970. I played those songs over and over until the grooves were practially worn out.
Ha...how funny! For Christmas 1980, I got the red version of that very album (1962-1966), with them - in their earlier days - looking over that same balcony as the one you have.



I was always a bigger fan of the pre-1967 stuff. I love it all, of course, but I really love the PRE-psychedelic/moustache era...just great 2-3 minute pop songs, awesome harmonies and tons of tasty guitar and bass parts all throughout, building up (over 3-4 years) to "Rubber Soul" and "Revolver", my two all-time favorites.

I believe a lot of it gets overshadowd by the Sgt. Pepper (and later) stuff. But it was all great-sounding and well-crafted, and certainly head-and-shoulders above what anyone else was doing in 1964-65!
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SKMDC
superkaratemonkeydeathcar
 
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2005-12-08, 18:03

Howard Cosell informed me on Monday Night Football, I think that was lucky as he was very incredulous and shocked at the prospect. "this cannot be true!" in his Cosellian self, Lennon had just been a guest in the booth weeks earlier so no doubt the whole monday night football crew was shocked.

Oddly enough that morning I had boxed up the bulk of the "Double Fantasy" Lp (black wax things, drop a needle on 'em, music comes out) and written up a return request for them that day.

The thing I liked about John regaurding his activist activities was his positivity. It's a shame that aspect of what he did isn't pointed out more often. His message wasn't "get out of Viet Nam" it was "give peace a chance"
War is over if you want it. He always wanted to give people the oppurtunity to say yes, instead of no. I thought of him during the "No Nukes" activism after he died, I thought "John wouldn't be saying 'no nukes' he'd be saying 'yes solar' you know what I mean?

anyway, yeah 25 years man, seems like yesterday.

"What's a Canadian farm boy to do?"
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Grip
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Los Angeles
 
2005-12-08, 20:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0
Ha...how funny! For Christmas 1980, I got the red version of that very album (1962-1966), with them - in their earlier days - looking over that same balcony as the one you have.
Yeah, I eventually got that one too.

I do like their later stuff better personally (could just be the way the blue album became ingrained in my impressionable young mind) but I like all their stuff. Hard for me to say that about any current band with even a tenth of their catalogue.
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SlackerDX
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
 
2005-12-09, 15:30

Rubber Soul and Revolver are definitely two of my favorite albums ever. I haven't heard the White Album yet (I'll get it one of these days) but I believe that the Beatles peaked as a group with those two albums. I mean, there isn't a single song on Revolver that I don't like to listen to. The creation of a cohesive album, rather than a collection of singles, is a skill that was lost for a long time. When was the last time you could say that you liked every song on an album?

What is everyone's favorite Lennon song? I'm torn between Strawberry Fields and In My Life
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SKMDC
superkaratemonkeydeathcar
 
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2005-12-09, 15:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerDX
Rubber Soul and Revolver are definitely two of my favorite albums ever. I haven't heard the White Album yet (I'll get it one of these days) but I believe that the Beatles peaked as a group with those two albums. I mean, there isn't a single song on Revolver that I don't like to listen to. The creation of a cohesive album, rather than a collection of singles, is a skill that was lost for a long time. When was the last time you could say that you liked every song on an album?

What is everyone's favorite Lennon song? I'm torn between Strawberry Fields and In My Life
You've never heard the White Album, but believe the Beatles peaked with Rubber Soul & Revolver?
Those two albums are important as they were the first two that were made once the rigors of touring were over, and they had a chance to sit back and really create something cohesive. Peak? Hardly. Watershed is more apt.
They were never in a period of decline, LET IT BE wasn't really mean't to be an album more of a document, that may be a valley, but it was followed up by ABBEY ROAD.
For the record Abbey Road was the only Beatles album to ever have a single issued from it.

favorite john song.....hmm... good question let's just throw out Imagine because that is just otherworldly great and timeless......man, I have to ponder that one.

"What's a Canadian farm boy to do?"
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2005-12-09, 16:05

Weird as it is, I always love listening to "Tomorrow Never Knows".

I just dig the fact that they were doing such gloriously weird stuff while still sporting the moptops (pre-moustache era). Who'da thunk?



My gosh, that song just blisters me. It's truly hynoptic and I love everything about it. That loopy drum, the "seagulls", the sdrawkcab guitar solo, the compressed/static vocals, etc.

Deliciously freaky.



Second to it, on the other end of the scale is probably "Norwegian Wood". Talk about a song that paints a picture...I can almost smell the room.

And "Julia" is beautiful.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2005-12-09 at 16:10.
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faramirtook
A for effort.
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
 
2005-12-09, 16:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0
Weird as it is, I always love listening to "Tomorrow Never Knows".

I just dig the fact that they were doing such gloriously weird stuff while still sporting the moptops (pre-moustache era). Who'da thunk?



My gosh, that song just blisters me. It's truly hynoptic and I love everything about it. That loopy drum, the "seagulls", the sdrawkcab guitar solo, the compressed/static vocals, etc.

Deliciously freaky.



Second to it, on the other end of the scale is probably "Norwegian Wood". Talk about a song that paints a picture...I can almost smell the room.

And "Julia" is beautiful.

"Julia" is my favorite Beatles song of that certain type. It's such a beautiful song.
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SKMDC
superkaratemonkeydeathcar
 
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2005-12-09, 17:36

Over the years I've really come to appreciate the 3 versions of Revolution.

Hey You've Got To Hide Your Love Away & Run For Your Life are my favorite pre-SPLHCB tunes.

But in his solo stuff God is probably the most personal, immediate, in your face song any pop star has ever written, and really draws a line in the sand for anyone looking for a gear-fab moptop.

But my favorite John Lennon song, all the above are honorable mention, is Instant Karma, it encapsulates my philosophy of life pretty succinctly.

"What's a Canadian farm boy to do?"
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Mac+
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2005-12-09, 17:54

Instant Karma is great ... but I remember in Oz it was used for some heavy rotation nike advertising - did it happen that way in the states too? (Wonder what John would have made of it?)
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SKMDC
superkaratemonkeydeathcar
 
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2005-12-09, 18:13

They used Revolution (in the states only) first, It caused a furor because Nike went through capitol records (caveat emptor: my employer at the time) as a back door to get it. I think the benefit from this was it caused the 3 survivors and Yoko to get together for legal action and the Anthology project sprang from this as well. (they used the Anthology releases to leverage more control over the catalog.) When Yoko sold Instant Karma to Nike (here's the add by the way) it really pissed Paul off, he thought John would have hated it, Paul turned around and wanted to change the credits of all their tunes on one of his live albums to McCartney/Lennon to give her a poke so the squabbling continues.
It's a great ad, and I think John would have loved it as it was controversial.


The more I've thought about his murder the last few days the more pissed off i've gotten, What would John Lennon thought about what's going on in the world today? his insights were always so unique, and provocative.

"What's a Canadian farm boy to do?"
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
 
2005-12-09, 18:16

Possibly a controversial viewpoint, but....

I think the Beatles were amazing musically...BUT...I reckon people underplay the importance of Paul McCartney, because he's still alive, and....have you ever heard any of the interviews with John Lennon? Especially near the end, he was one of the most pretentious people I've ever heard speak.
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SKMDC
superkaratemonkeydeathcar
 
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2005-12-09, 18:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson
Possibly a controversial viewpoint, but....

I think the Beatles were amazing musically...BUT...I reckon people underplay the importance of Paul McCartney, because he's still alive, and....have you ever heard any of the interviews with John Lennon? Especially near the end, he was one of the most pretentious people I've ever heard speak.
No, unless you mean near the end of the Beatles, near the end of his life, he'd become quite tranquil at peace with his standing in the world.
He did that famous interview, right after the Beatles breakup, it was one of the first issues of Rolling Stone (the one with Jann Wenner, that's circulating on the radio now) where he runs down everyone and was quite egomaniacal, this was also the vibe of his Plastic Ono Band album that the GOD tune I mentioned above is on, He was going through a lot of stuff, (what does George say in the documentary? "we gave up our central nervous system's being beatles") and worked it out pretty publicly after the split.
McCartney never fought back even though
a) the other three were piling on
(read the lyrics to Ringo's "Back off Boogaloo", or John's "How Do You Sleep") and
b) Paul was right right about the legal shit.
And he always turned the other cheek, forget Knighthood, Paul deserves sainthood for the crap he took post-beatles.

"What's a Canadian farm boy to do?"
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curiousuburb
Antimatter Man
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: that interweb thing
 
2005-12-09, 18:38

Well, John certainly pissed off certain parts of the fundamenlist community in the US with Ballad of John and Yoko, implicitly comparing himself to Christ, let alone the obvious comparison he made of the Beatles being "bigger than Jesus". IIRC, there were a few communities in the States that burned his albums for that statement. Not sure if Chapman was a member of those congregations.

Imagine ranks among his greatest post-Beatles numbers, but for Airplay, Ballad of John & Yoko and "Give Peace a Chance" may get more play, if not props for original lyrics (GPAC).

I remember mourning his loss on that day 25 years ago. Had pals who felt similar pain on Elvis' passing, but I couldn't really equate them. I never missed Elvis (and/or he's still preserved by Aliens). John's murder was a significat loss to music and activism.
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Mac+
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2005-12-09, 20:28

SKMDC - thanks for the link ... I sent it to my brother - I'm sure he'll love that trip down memory lane.

Also, I like your assessment on John's positive activism. I remember hearing from a friend (not sure about the truth of this though) that one of the things that attracted him to Yoko originally was an exhibition she held, where there was a ladder leading to a magnifying glass hanging from the ceiling and the word that was placed up there for all to see was simply "yes".

Great anecdote if it is true. It also resonates with your interpretation of his "positively framed" protests. (GPAC, for instance and, by extrapolation, Pro Solar)

I didn't understand the significance of his assassination when it occurred, but as I learned more about The Beatles and their impact on music - indeed the world - I came to realise how deep a loss it was. Reminiscing about it now and thinking about John's creativity and perspective on life hammers it home once again. RIP John.

For the record, you can add my vote to Instant Karma too. Great message.
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SKMDC
superkaratemonkeydeathcar
 
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2005-12-09, 21:31

It was at the Indica Gallery in London. She also walked up to him and handed him a card that said BREATHE.

I read that she showed up in Strawberry Fields yesterday amidst a massive throng of people, that couldn't have been to easy for her.
You know Yoko is in her 70's? 72 I think.

"What's a Canadian farm boy to do?"
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2005-12-09, 22:07

I always like to wonder about certain people...what they'd be doing, how they'd be viewed, etc. had they not died so young, before they were able to do so much more.

I wonder sometimes if a young, tragic death puts a layer of untouchability or "extra greatness" around them.

And the two people I always think this most about are Buddy Holly and John Lennon.

Would Buddy had gone on to further success? I always imagined him - since he sang, wrote, played his own guitar parts, etc., as always being around and having an impact...as a producer or head of a record label or whatever. OR would he have faded once the British Invasion hit, and been relegated to a lower-key life without as much impact. Then would he have gone on the oldies/has-been circuit?



I've always been fascinated by "what if he hadn't died in that plane crash?". I think about the surviving rock and roll pioneers from that mid-late 50's period, and they're either clowns or degenerates (or something in between): Little Richard, Chuck Berry or Jerry Lee Lewis.

Then again, you had ones like Johnny Cash (and maybe Orbison?) who stayed interesting, evolved, grew, etc. They never seemed to be cheesy, like some of the others from that era have become? Perhaps Buddy would've gone that route, kind of a respected "elder statesman" of rock and roll (as opposed to Little Richard acting like a nimrod on "Hollywood Squares").

I wonder the same stuff about Lennon...would he be equal with McCartney in output and mainstream appeal? OR would he be more a Neil Young/Lou Reed type of figure, a bit more on the edge, not as much mainstream appeal but considered as more of an "artist" by the serious, "in the know" types?

What kind of music would he be making? How would he fit in? The same as others his age (Elton John, McCartney, Rod Stewart, Clapton, etc.)? I couldn't imagine him doing Super Bowl halftime shows, but I could imagine him at Live 8 or participating in that post 9/11 concert at Madison Square Garden (especially since he came to be so identified with New York City during the later years of his life.

He and Bono would probably be this massive double-threat.



Would he have embraced all this technology musicians use now? What would he think about iPods and the iTMS...and the Beatles (and his) role in it all?

When people die young, particularly in a tragic, unexpected way, it really changes things, huh?

Paul will probably live to about 112 (him and Keith Richards), and when they go it will leave quite a hole...but not nearly one as large and looming as being shot to death, at age 40 and on the cusp of renewed activity.


Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2005-12-09 at 22:19.
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Brave Ulysses
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2005-12-10, 03:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0
I always like to wonder about certain people...what they'd be doing, how they'd be viewed, etc. had they not died so young, before they were able to do so much more.

I wonder sometimes if a young, tragic death puts a layer of untouchability or "extra greatness" around them.

And the two people I
It's amazing to think about what could have been. What if Jimi had lived on? What would music sound like today? What would guitar sound like? He was so ahead of his time and so innovative. Yet he was so young and certainly had room for growth and expansion.

And what about Stevie Ray Vaughan. Another amazing talent. Before his death he had finally straightened himself out, and produced 2 of his best albums, and was finally reaching the mainstream.

It's horrible that some of the most influential musicians in our lives had their lives die much too young. But maybe it makes their impact and influence even greater.

But it's hard to fathom what we would be listening to now if they all had lived long healthy productive lives. I imagine things would be quite different.
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
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2005-12-10, 09:08

While My Guitar Gently Weeps... still puts shivers down my spine. I have always loved that song, even since I was a little kid, far to young understand the lyrics or anything else they wrote. I used to sit outside my big brother's room and listen to it while he was doing his homework or whatever... a different time.

Songs like that make me look at 80% of today's hip-hop BS and wonder how anyone ever equated it with the idea of music. A person can make all the arguments they want about personal taste and the rest, but listen to a collection of the Beatles more serious works and put it up against the typical "award winning" hip-hop artist's work and you tell me...

...most ["artists" in that category] are a fucking joke. Great marketers and great at tapping into this week's teen fascination, but absolutely no musical talent and no insight into anything but how much dough their truckin, how many ho's they're bangin', or how wonderful they are in their own minds. Call it Iverson-itis. Or maybe Shaq-itis. Fucking pathetic.

*steps off soap box*

...into the light of a dark black night.

Last edited by Moogs : 2005-12-10 at 09:18.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2005-12-10, 10:30

Well, that's technically George there, Moogs. But yes, still a great song!
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