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So tired of fake "service dogs"


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So tired of fake "service dogs"
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-07-31, 18:48

Where to start.

Dude comes into the store with an off-leash dog (illegal in Boise outside of designated off-leash parks). This dog is small (10lbs?). I tell dude that we do not permit dogs in the store. I get the typical response: "It's a service dog".

I am legally permitted to ask two questions: 1) Is that a service dog?; and 2) What tasks is it trained to perform. Dog's owner is legally required to answer both questions or we can refuse the animal outright.

Dude says, "It's a service dog."

I say, "That's a service dog?" (one of the questions I can legally ask.

Dude responds, "It's illegal for you to ask that."

I say, "No, it's not."

Dude cusses at me, tells me I'm breaking the law. As soon as he cusses, he is being abusive and I ask him to leave. He threatens to sue. I say, "Good luck with that."

Dude offers to bet me and extends his hand. "I'll bet you. I'm gonna sue."

I refuse to shake his hand. Not going there.

Dude takes his dog to the car. On his way out, I notice he has a large bowie knife tucked into his pants.

I think he is done and head for the back to breath. When I come back out, dude is back in the store rummaging through business cards. Uh, oh, he's going to call my boss (who is observing the encounter on video). I tell the dude he can take whatever business card he wants. Dude now says he has PTSD and points at all his tattoos, as if that means anything to me. We are discriminating because we will not permit his service dog in the store. I ask the 2nd question I am legally permitted to ask: "What task is your dog trained to perform?"

I tell him it is my legal right to know. He demands to know what I said earlier (implying I cannot ask if the dogs are service dogs). He refuses to answer my question and begins cussing at me again. I ask him to leave, he threatens to sue.

Then, the kicker.

"It's because I'm Mexican, isn't it?"



He has brown skin, but I had made no mention of jack or squat regarding race. Not my thing. We serve everyone who walks through the door unless they're assholes! This guy was an asshole. His skin is meaningless to me.

Then, he does his victory dance.

He gives me a NAZI salute and says, "Keep it white, man!" and leaves.



Seriously. So many people are using the fake service dog thing to get their pets into retail stores that it is taking the teeth out of the ADA service animal laws. It's just making me sick! This guy wasn't mad because he couldn't bring his service dog in. He was mad because he has been throwing his weight around to take his dumb pet with him and someone stood in his way. Then he played the race card on his way out.



He's the one who called someone out for their skin color, not me! Dick head!

Anyway, just venting.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2019-07-31, 19:33

You know, I've seen a lot of people abusing the service dog thing. I get that they are finding tons of reasons to have them now and they are more and more beneficial to the patient and blah blah... but a pet is far different than a service animal. A leash is still required for any animal even if it is labeled a service animal. I have no idea what questions we can ask here in Tidewater. Thankfully I'm not in retail anymore and generally don't have to deal with it.

Good job sticking to your guns though. Fact is, if it was a real service dog he'd probably have told you and not gotten to pissy about it.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2019-07-31, 20:05

I helped a friend abuse the service dog thing years ago before I understood what was happening. 100% would not do it again.


...
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-07-31, 22:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
Fact is, if it was a real service dog he'd probably have told you and not gotten to pissy about it.
He did tell me, but then refused to answer my other question. Truth is, the biggest giveaway to a fake service animal is the off-leash thing. Service animals can cost upwards of $30,000 and require 2+ years to train, and no reasonable person lets a $30,000 tool wander around on its own.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2019-07-31, 23:05

Even though I believe that education is imperative, people who are able to cite the law over a very specific topic always wig me out because I assume they're ready for things to get super hinky, super quick.



...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-07-31, 23:25

Believe me, it does. A lot of people now believe that they are entitled to take their dogs wherever. When they are asked to remove their animals, they become excessively defensive. Many people try to get around it by ordering those stupid Amazon "service dog" harnesses to wrap their poodle in. They immediately point to it when they come in and say "service animal, back off". That's what the second question is for, and most people have no answer. Then they get super offended and start making threats.

My boss (the owner) is super allergic to dogs and cats. He does not want animals dropping their dander all over the place, which makes him very sick. These fakes do not care! They expect to be treated as special, and the less special they are the more defensive and offended they become. I armed myself with the law so that I can protect our store from fakes. Customers arm themselves for one of two reasons: 1) They are real and know their rights; or 2) they are fakes and want to usurp the rights of others.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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PKIDelirium
Nobody bumps my lock
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Xenia, Ohio
 
2019-08-01, 13:51

Bowie knife?! That's when I would have taken the nearest phone and called the police.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-08-01, 13:57

Meh. He was being a dick, but I never felt threatened by him. I took note of it, but he never put his hand near it. Had he done so, yes, I would have called.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2019-08-01, 13:59

You know what though, he was hostile and claiming PTSD with a large knife? Yeah, he needed to chat with authorities. That is the kind of thing that can go sideways really quickly. Let the cops help him sort out his aggression. Since he's leaving the property anyway they wouldn't create a scene there with your customers watching and having to deal with it.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-08-01, 14:02

Yeah, well, you know.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2019-08-01, 15:01

Friends of mine help train service dogs, real ones, and this kind of story makes me sick. This is why BC passed laws requiring service dogs have government issued licenses that must be marked on the dog tags. If they are not on duty, wearing the cape, they can be barred entry to some locations.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-08-01, 15:14

Thanks for that. I submitted a proposal to my state representative a couple years ago essentially asking for service dog licensing that would be free to the dog's owner, with the costs derived from fines paid by fakers. He told me Idaho's laws were sufficient.

Idaho's laws (like the laws in all 50 states) protect the fakers as much as the real dogs, and it makes me angry—for lots of reasons!

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2019-09-09, 12:59

Under ADA (and at least WA law):

You CAN...

1) Ask if it is a service animal
2) Ask what it is trained to do for them
3) Regardless of the answers to 1 & 2, you CAN bar the animal if it is acts in an 'untrained' manner. This includes aggressive behavior, yapping (it's always the tiny little yapping fuckers... and their dogs), urinating or defecating, annoying other customers, etc. It doesn't matter if they whip out a gold plated certificate of training from Bozo's School of Service Animals, if it is a nuisance, you can eject the animal.

You CAN NOT...

1) Ask what their disability is
2) Bar the human just for having an animal

But, of course, you can ban the human for being a shitty human.

Trust me, every person with a legit service animal knows this inside and out. Like you said, if they don't know, they're 99.9% not legit.

These entitled shitheads piss me off to no end. I have friends with service animals, and my aunt was blind with a seeing eye dog for years (RIP). They get the shit that rolls off these fucking assholes backs.

Oh, the kicker? The only two species that fall under ADA (federal) service animal designation? Dogs, and miniature horses. Cats, lizards, birds, and squirrels can step off. (Your state laws may differ, check.)

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
#IRC isn't old school.
Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.

Last edited by Kickaha : 2019-09-09 at 13:11.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-09-09, 13:39

I've been reading up on this for at least the last two years. Yes, it varies (somewhat) by state, but the general ADA rules apply, and the slippery little suckers keep getting more complicated, because we are an increasingly "victim" society. Most of the people doing this are "victims" of some abhorrent situation or other and need a little cuddle buddy in order to get through reality, or they are just pompous, disrespectful and self-entitled schmucks!

I used to love dogs. However, due to the abhorrent behavior of dog owners, I'm beginning to see them on the same level I see rats. It's not really the dog's fault, either, which is sad.

Since I started this thread, I have already sent another faker packing—some 6'-5" dude with a 12" tall dog, who when asked to remove his dog had to take photos of the front of the store to post to DispleasureBook. I also dealt with a woman who had this answer to "what task is your dog trained to perform?":

"He helps me medically."



FAKER!

They are required to give a specific response, such as: "He alerts me to diabetic shock," or some other such thing like that. But, get this: According to the ADA, an ex-soldier suffering from PTSD can have an off-leash service dog that is sent into any building in advance to check to make sure the place is free of very bad people before the ex-soldier enters.

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Capella
Dark Cat of the Sith
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rochester, NY
Send a message via AIM to Capella  
2019-09-09, 23:03

Right, sometimes dogs can do multiple tasks - my mother's is a trained guide seeing eye dog - but the dog has also reliably detected seizures in her - but she'd be able to say "she provides vision assistance, detects seizures, and can fetch items".

"A blind, deaf, comatose, lobotomy patient could feel my anger!" - Darth Baras
twitter ; amateur photographer ; fanfiction writer ; roleplayer and worldbuilder
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-09-10, 10:11

That is correct. Any of those or all of them. "He helps me medically" is not a valid response.
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El Gallo
Formerly “MumboJumbo”
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
 
2019-09-16, 19:30

Just went on a plane ride with what was clearly a fake service dog. It was a small pug with zero self-control let alone any real training. Woman ended up sitting across from me and I lucked out in that regard because I was fully ready to raise a serious ruckus if this dog had to sit next to me.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-09-17, 17:01

Here's what will happen in a case like that:

Someone moves wrong and disrupts this "service dog" and the dog bites another passenger. The airline gets sued. The dog's owner smiles.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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sihoxa
BANNED
I am a filthy spammer.
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
 
2019-09-27, 06:30

Yeah i know that!! Thanks dude to let me know it again.
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sihoxa
BANNED
I am a filthy spammer.
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
 
2019-09-27, 06:31

Just went on a plane ride with what was clearly a fake service dog. It was a small pug with zero self-control let alone any real training. Woman ended up sitting across from me and I lucked out in that regard because I was fully ready to raise a serious ruckus if this dog had to sit next to me.

Go away spammer! ~KS

Last edited by kscherer : 2019-09-27 at 09:59.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-09-27, 10:00

Man, these jackasses got busy this morning. Oh, well. Easy, breezy, ban-em-easy!
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