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Milk Gone Wild
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murbot
Mammogram Tech
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canada
 
2006-01-29, 18:29

http://homepage.mac.com/murbot/.Movi..._gone_wild.mov

Damn. I like milk.
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Elysium
Environmental Bloodhound
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Land of ice and snow
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2006-01-29, 18:37

Definitely...
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Messiahtosh
Apple Historian
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2006-01-29, 18:48

You guys talking about Muscle Milk???

Oh, nevermind!
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Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2006-01-29, 19:00

Wow, that is special on so many levels.
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alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2006-01-29, 19:09

One reason to support small dairy farmers vs. giant conglomorates. I've seen small diary farms, and they're nothing like that.
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Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2006-01-29, 19:10

Agreed. PETA focuses on the worst of the worst (which is good) and parades it as the norm (which is bad).

Buy from your local dairies, local ranches, etc, and you'll get a better product.

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
#IRC isn't old school.
Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.
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murbot
Mammogram Tech
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canada
 
2006-01-29, 19:14

Man, I should stop surfing these sites.

Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails) narrates this gem on fur:

http://homepage.mac.com/murbot/.Movies/trent_fur.wmv
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eventhorizon
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2006-01-29, 21:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiahtosh
You guys talking about Muscle Milk???

Oh, nevermind!
No, only you. Only you.
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ast3r3x
25 chars of wasted space.
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2006-01-29, 21:54

The sad thing is, I've seen that video before view it here
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2006-01-29, 21:58

Man. I'm thirsty now. Time for a refreshing glass of egg nog!

MMM. Two animals in one glass. Tasty!

By the way, I think it's well past time to nullify the vegetarian moral crusade.
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Banana
is the next Chiquita
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2006-01-29, 22:00

Just saw the fur movie-

I'm confused- (actually, I'm still in a state of confusion and am working on eventual recovery), people actually skin and use dogs and cats fur?
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alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2006-01-29, 22:13

Here's a link from a paper in the Netherlands about fur and how it ends up in our products. Go figure, people lie to peddle dog and cat fur as other types of fur.

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
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ghoti
owner for sale by house
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
 
2006-01-29, 22:20

I love cats, and I have a dog. Still, I don't get how killing cats and dogs is worse than killing cows or pigs. Just because they're cuddly and cute doesn't make them better than other animals. Opposing the slaughter of "pets" while using leather and eating meat is pure bigotry, IMHO.
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murbot
Mammogram Tech
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canada
 
2006-01-29, 22:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghoti
Opposing the slaughter of "pets" while using leather and eating meat is pure bigotry, IMHO.
Shit, everyone I know is a bigot, myself included.
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ghoti
owner for sale by house
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
 
2006-01-29, 22:29

Then explain to me why it's okay to keep cows in bad conditions, and kill them when they're no longer productive, but it's not okay with cats and dogs.

EDIT: Please don't get this wrong, I'm not attacking anybody here, but this just drives me nuts. If you think it's wrong to kill cats, then go all the way and become a vegetarian (vegan isn't even necessary). But don't tell me how it's wrong that the Chinese are eating dogs and killing cats for their fur while stuffing a stake into your face. I'm not a vegetarian, but neither do I get all excited about cuddly furry animals being treated like cows.

Last edited by ghoti : 2006-01-29 at 22:45.
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eventhorizon
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2006-01-29, 22:40

We should migrate much of our cattle production to ostrich production.
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2006-01-29, 22:44

Ugh. At first I thought it was going to be all mammaries until...



Shit Murray what are you trying to do, make me give up burgers? It's all fun and games until you hang the animal by its feet and slit its throat. Although that's probably better than some other methods I can imagine.

Somehow I doubt that slaughter scene was "the worst". I bet it was pretty fucking typical, even if PETA sucks in every way possible. Shit. Now I don't even want to have milk with my cereal in the morning. I'll have to go buy fucking SOY milk now.

You bastards!

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2006-01-29, 22:52

Well, my feeling is that if you can't slaughter the animal, you have no business eating it.

On that note, yes I have, and yes I do. (Best damned steak I've ever had - less than 45 minutes from on the hoof to on the plate.)

Some animals are cuddly, some animals are tasty. Which ones we select as which is pretty arbitrary, and generally cultural. How we treat them, regardless of which bin they're in, is all that really matters.

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
#IRC isn't old school.
Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2006-01-29, 23:02

There should be some way to put cows to sleep (without an injection) before they get wacked. Maybe spray some ether or something. Hell they ought to put them to sleep their whole lives. What a shit existence. Now cows aren't the most cognizant animals in the world I realize, but still. They have eyes, ears and nerve endings. God damned animal rights films... shit.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Kickaha
Likes his boobies blue.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hell
 
2006-01-29, 23:11

The apparatus I had experience with was... um... unnervingly fast. It simultaneously broke the neck and shot a steel bolt through the brain, while yanking the cow vertical so the throat could be slit immediately. It went from alive and whole to just plain *DEAD* in a heartbeat. It really hammered home the difference between a living being and a hunk of meat... not much.

To be honest, it made me feel very, very mortal.

My other brain is hung like a horse too.
#IRC isn't old school.
Old school is being able to say 'finger me' with a straight face.
  quote
alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via ICQ to alcimedes  
2006-01-29, 23:30

The cow movie was an example of a poor way to slaughter animals.

The movie of the cats and dogs in China is another example of a poor way to slaughter animals.

I don't have a problem with eating animals, but they should be killed humanely.

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
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SledgeHammer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2006-01-30, 00:13

I'll quote Anthony Bourdain on the subject:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Bourdain in Kitchen Confidential
Vegetarians and their Hezbollah-like splinter-faction, the vegans, are a persistent irritant to any chef worth a damn. To me, life without veal stock, pork fat, sausage, organ meat, demi-glace, or even stinky cheese is a life not worth living. Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, an affront to all I stand for, the pure enjoyment of food. The body, these waterheads imagine, is a temple that should not be polluted by any animal protein. It's healthier, they insist, though every vegetarian waiter I've worked with is brought down by any rumor of a cold. Oh I'll accommodate them, I'll rummage around for something to feed them, for a 'vegetarian plate,' if called on to do so. Fourteen dollars for a few slices of grilled eggplant and zucchini suits my food cost fine.
For the record, I do give a damn about animal cruelty, but PETA just really pisses me off, so I tend to ignore anything I hear coming from their direction.

Also, a tall cold glass of milk and some veal sounds great. Maybe they came from mother and son.
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Brave Ulysses
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2006-01-30, 00:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by SledgeHammer
I'll quote Anthony Bourdain on the subject:

For the record, I do give a damn about animal cruelty, but PETA just really pisses me off, so I tend to ignore anything I hear coming from their direction.

Also, a tall cold glass of milk and some veal sounds great. Maybe they came from mother and son.
Sorry but your post and especially the quote included in it make you just seem like a jackass.

I love meat, I eat beef or chicken and other animal products everyday. But I do not like and approve the animal cruelty involved in the food industry. PETA pisses you off because they take an extreme stance on animal cruelty. It turns some people off, but it also gains a hell of a lot of attention. I can't see how you can watch those videos and be pissed off at PETA and quote a ridiculous quote like you did and make light of the situation.

I bet you consider yourself intelligent and civilized yet it is hard to find something more barbaric than those videos.
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Banana
is the next Chiquita
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
 
2006-01-30, 01:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses
It turns some people off, but it also gains a hell of a lot of attention.
You know there's many kinds of attention, and PETA has a lot of negative attention. Why, I have a comic strip here that depicts a PETA representative wearing a shirt "Hug a Cockroach". Think people will take them seriously?

PETA would go long way if instead of using shock value and appeal to emotions, they geared toward something that would make average people get up and be annoyed. Oh for example, they could say something like that 80% of dairy cows are malnuritioned and because of that, milk harbor more bacteria which may be actually more harmful.

Something like that. People will react more positively than if they get a guilt trip for slaughtering innocent animals and eating their meat, wearing their skins, etc.
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Argento
I puked at work.
Because I'm a pussy.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Head in a trash can.
 
2006-01-30, 02:19

I've got a question here which I've never gotten an answer to, and/or I haven't asked it...... However what's the difference between killing a animal and killing a plant? They're both alive right? They both react to, say, cut limbs. They both live on water, and both try to stay alive and survive. Plants have developed defense mechanisims for animals that might eat them, like wise animals have claws or other natural defenses at their dissposal.

Now maybe there's some basic biological meaning here that I'm missing which disgtingishes the two completely from each other, but if not how come nobody cares at all about eating plants, but some get a huge boner against eating animals?

And All That Could Have Been
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curiousuburb
Antimatter Man
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: that interweb thing
 
2006-01-30, 06:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argento
I've got a question here which I've never gotten an answer to, and/or I haven't asked it...... However what's the difference between killing a animal and killing a plant? They're both alive right? They both react to, say, cut limbs. They both live on water, and both try to stay alive and survive. Plants have developed defense mechanisims for animals that might eat them, like wise animals have claws or other natural defenses at their dissposal.

Now maybe there's some basic biological meaning here that I'm missing which disgtingishes the two completely from each other, but if not how come nobody cares at all about eating plants, but some get a huge boner against eating animals?
Some folks do care.
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ghoti
owner for sale by house
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
 
2006-01-30, 08:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argento
I've got a question here which I've never gotten an answer to, and/or I haven't asked it...... However what's the difference between killing a animal and killing a plant? They're both alive right? They both react to, say, cut limbs.
Yes, but they react in different ways. Plants don't have a central nervous system, and we don't have any evidence that they feel pain. The only thing a plant does when a part is cut off is contain the damage by sealing the "wound". If it didn't, it would die, so that's simply a question of evolution. Animals, on the other hand, suffer pain the same way we do - which is not surprising since we are animals, too.
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2006-01-30, 08:46

Pretty much what ghoti said. Plants have no brain, central nervous system or outer awareness (at least not as we understand such things). What gets people when it comes to animal slaughter is the pain and fear they are obviously capable of feeling. There's no way around it; if you eat meat you're a part of that cycle. I think some of us just would like to see certain parts of that cycle be a little more humane.

But, it's a commodity industry. You're trying to put meat on the table for millions and millions of people. Therefore you cram as many animals into one space as you can, butcher them in whatever way is least costly and get on with it. It's an ugly thing but that's the reality. But after seeing stuff like that I will think twice before ordering a burger anytime soon. Milk... I dunno. Milk goes into SO many things we eat that it's almost pointless to boycott it or stop buying it in containers.

You'll still being consuming products with milk in them on a regular basis.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Dorian Gray
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Paris, France
 
2006-01-30, 12:25

Don't shoot the messenger! You may be ambivalent about animals in general and hate pets, but you would be foolish to think PETA is portraying unusual practices in these films. I have never seen animals being slaughtered, but as Halal and Kosher meat consumption is extremely widespread, it stands to reason that this sort of slaughter practice must be commonplace (for the Jewish and Muslim markets at least, for which the animal must be slaughtered with a quick slit to the throat, without being stunned by a bolt to the head beforehand as is the usual practice).

I have visited many cattle farms in the UK (and spent part of my childhood living next to one), and the following are not just common practice, but almost universal practice on family-run farms:

1. Castration of all bull-calves by one of a variety of cruel methods, none of which involve even local anaesthetic. The method I most often came across was so-called "bloodless castration" where the spermatic cords are crushed with a delightful device known as a burdizzo.

2. Disbudding (removal of the horn buds in calves). Government guidelines stipulate that this procedure should only be carried out with a heated iron under local anaesthetic by a trained stock-keeper. I never once saw it being done under anaesthetic or by anyone other than the farm owner. Additionally, the iron was often not heated for long enough, resulting in additional unnecessary stress for the animal.

3. Dehorning. Government guidelines state that this should not be a regular practice, and that if it must be done, that it should be done under local anaesthetic, preferably by a vet, and with appropriate after-care including pain-relief. Of course every time I saw it being performed, the horns were removed at the base with a wire saw, with no anaesthetic, by the untrained farm owner, with no after-care whatsoever. You've never seen blood until you've seen a mature cow having her horns removed by this method. It sprays like a fire hose. Even the farmers were notably perturbed by what they had done.

4. Routine injection of obscene amounts of rBGH (recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone) and antibiotics. In dairy cows this causes a very high incidence of mastitis. The automatic milking systems also cause teat damage which increases the risk of mastitis. On an average family farm at any point in time, at least a handful of cows suffer from mastitis.

Cattle are herbivores and natural prey for hunters, so when they are in extreme stress they do not react like a person or a carnivorous animal like a cat or dog. Doing so would alert predators to their plight and thus be fatal in the wild. Instead they suffer in silence, sometimes until they collapse (usually to the surprise of the farmer). If cattle bellowed in agony and generally caused a lot more fuss while under stress, farmers would be more inclined to switch to humane practices. As things stand, they see no point in wasting money on more expensive practices which benefit neither themselves nor their customers.

I have the feeling people generally have no idea what is involved in modern intensive farming. Hence the need for PETA.
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SledgeHammer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2006-01-30, 13:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argento
I've got a question here which I've never gotten an answer to, and/or I haven't asked it...... However what's the difference between killing a animal and killing a plant? They're both alive right? They both react to, say, cut limbs. They both live on water, and both try to stay alive and survive. Plants have developed defense mechanisims for animals that might eat them, like wise animals have claws or other natural defenses at their dissposal.

Now maybe there's some basic biological meaning here that I'm missing which disgtingishes the two completely from each other, but if not how come nobody cares at all about eating plants, but some get a huge boner against eating animals?
From Notting Hill:
Keziah: No thanks, I'm a fruitarian.
Max: I didn't realize that.
William: And, ahm: what exactly is a fruitarian?
Keziah: We believe that fruits and vegetables have feeling so we think cooking is cruel. We only eat things that have actually fallen off a tree or bush - that are, in fact, dead already.
William: Right. Right. Interesting stuff. So, these carrots...
Keziah: Have been murdered, yes.
William: Murdered? Poor carrots. How beastly!

From The Simpsons:
"I'm a level four vegan: I won't eat anything that casts a shadow."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses
Sorry but your post and especially the quote included in it make you just seem like a jackass.
I can live with that
I buy free range and cage free and what-have-you when I can afford it. I would like to be able to support those movements/efforts more than I do, but that stuff is expensive and I am poor. My denying myself some of my favorite food is not going to make a difference, so I just can't get myself to worry too much about it. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to meet my wife for lunch at the deli.
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