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Minecraft 1.2: New World Policies Ahoy!


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Minecraft 1.2: New World Policies Ahoy!
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2012-03-02, 22:07

Minecraft 1.2 has Yet Another Terrain Engine Update, and that means it's time for us to start a new world. This much you already know!

With this new world, though, will come some new policy changes. I've been discussing these ideas with a coworker (and fellow gamer) over the past several weeks, and I've mentioned them to a few people in-game recently. Now that we're on the cusp of the new world, it's time to make these public knowledge.

#1. No teleportation! TerraNova diffused so much that we never formed a real central, community area. Teleportation makes sprawl too easy and I'm sure that it contributed to everyone picking plots of land far away from each other. When you can instantly travel to any part of the world, collaborating on central facilities (shelters, roads, farms, storage/exchange) has little value. If you want to travel to some distant land (within reason), I won't stop you, but know that you'll probably be all alone.

#2. No god powers! This also means no OP status (including me). Anything that really requires OP status can be done from the command-line if needed, and those times should be rare (updating whitelist, restarting server, etc). Some of you guys have gotten bent out of shape with the use of OP creative mode in TerraNova; so, we're going to give this a try. I hope that this will resolve some of those tensions.

#3. No mandatory land claims! Just use some common sense courtesy here. If you're going to erect a structure very close to someone else, just ask if it's OK. If you're going to mine/build some plot that's not immediately adjacent to others, have at it! We shouldn't need to reserve slots, especially since claims made in advance of being used "right now" tend to get forgotten anyway. This also goes for "community" areas. With the terraformed desert in the last world, people were dissuaded from "wasting" the area. That's just completely unnecessary. Unused land is free for taking unless a strong majority of players feels otherwise.

#4. Creative Day! But I just said no god powers! Yes, on a regular basis, perhaps every Saturday or Sunday, anyone will be allowed to use creative mode to bang out some fun building projects. If you don't want to use creative mode, you can certainly opt-out and stay in survival mode. On creative days, please be mindful of other "legit" projects. If you plan to construct something large or ostentatious, please take it away from the general populace. I know that having creative mode opens up the potential for resource hoarding, but I'm going to start with no countermeasures to prevent hoarding. I only ask that you use creative mode responsibly. If I find people are abusing creative mode, I will revoke the privilege.

The rest of the old rules still basically apply. Close the door behind yourself. Don't demolish others' structures. Mine away from others' structures. And cetera. I'll update the guidelines shortly, or maybe turn this post into a Guidelines 2.0...

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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2012-03-02, 22:07

So! That being said, when do we launch into World 5?

SATURDAY 2012 MARCH 03 @ 20:00 EST

I'd love to see the whole gang together (or as much as possible) at the same time for the new world launch. We can set up a quick shelter, divvy up some resource and construction tasks for an initial "safe" area, and get the world off to a grande start! Who's with me?

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2012-03-02, 22:15

I'm pretty sure I can be there. Might even be able to workout Mrs T and LS on there too! Though bed time for little people is 2000 so we'll have to see if the whole gang can be there from here.

Love the new rules BTW.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-03-02, 22:27

#1: Yay! I love this idea. TN was such a spread out mess... this will be nice (and force the use of the underground railways out of town).

#2: Woooo! Again, I like this idea completely.

#3: Um, I'm on the fence about this one. If it's *outside* downtown and at least couple hundred or so blocks away from a previous claim, fine. But there needs to be some real communication between players beforehand. That is, NO building until you talk to your neighbors.

#4: Ugh. That kind've defeats the purpose of MC for me, but whatever. I'll never** participate (because I like my structures to be at least based on some sweat equity), but I know others will. I would like it if those of y'all that do go this route to find a place of your own to build your Quick 'N Uglies*. Like an area of the map that is dedicated to "creative" structures. I really don't want a fucked up 192 tall lapis block monstrosity next to something I build downtown with my own hands and legit resources.


* Not all structures built in Creative mode are ugly, but open it up to everyone and I think you'll find that ugly outweighs the well-thought-out. Especially given a day to build (and hoard resources to continue building later).

** Actually, I may use it for one project. One project. Green cobblestone is a bitch.

So it goes.

Last edited by 709 : 2012-03-03 at 00:10.
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SpecMode
Wait what
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NorCal
 
2012-03-02, 22:39

Yeah, I'm not terribly keen on the creative thing either. Maybe once bukkit is up and running again, we can use Brad's wwarp plugin and designate an entirely separate map for people to go nuts with.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-03-02, 22:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecMode View Post
Yeah, I'm not terribly keen on the creative thing either. Maybe once bukkit is up and running again, we can use Brad's wwarp plugin and designate an entirely separate map for people to go nuts with.
I wouldn't mind if it was on the same map (because I'm sure I'd love to visit), but far enough away that it wasn't an eyesore to anyone within 1000 blocks of downtown.

So it goes.
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RowdyScot
Ice Arrow Sniper
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Great Bay Temple
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2012-03-02, 22:45

I can't be there until later. I close tomorrow night.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-03-02, 22:48

Or maybe a creative day like once a month or so. Certainly not every week. How about you take Sat/Sun as a "restock the Exchange" day? That way there's blocks available for anyone who wishes to partake, but not a temptation to hoard because of our sense of fair play. There's chests now for the odd and hard-to-get blocks, so if the Exchange was restocked with those every week, the players that choose to use those could.

So it goes.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2012-03-02, 22:53

I like all the rules except for, maybe, 3. I definitely agree that we went overboard with land claims/HOA thing in the desert and that really dissuaded the sort of urban growth we saw with Bridgeport, but at the same time, I'm a little nervous about trying to plan a giant project (like Hogwarts + Hogsmeade) while worrying about somebody else building on the grounds I'm planning around.

Maybe we can do land claims with restrictions? Like, no claims for the town area, just for the big out-of-town projects, and only one claim per person at a time, to keep people from forgetting about their "someday..." claims?
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-03-02, 23:08

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more #3 doesn't sit well with me. I mean, think of all the cross-claims that were solved in that thread, and think about what it would be like if you said to a group in game "Imma build here, OK? bbl." and then come back the next night to have your claim built on because somebody said the same thing to a group of different players - then started building. How do we resolve that?

And on a somewhat selfish note - I'd like the museum to be closer to town than it was in BP. Not "in town", but close. Close enough where it may be a part of the skyline in a direction or two. We have some really cool structures now that we've all got our n00b days behind us that could be transplanted and plant the seeds for a very dynamic new downtown.

So it goes.
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Artap99
Totally awesome.
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
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2012-03-03, 00:46

I think that community projects should allow for God-mode. Gold for boosters. Glowstone for lighting. We do not need to eliminate it, just be reasonable. Perhaps bring over the community exchange and fill a few empty chests with unobtaniums.

Plus, the tool shed and armor shed made the game substantially less frustrating.
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
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2012-03-03, 02:02

I'm down with most of this. Especially Number 2, you know...

No teleportation. I see the idea....I just worry that we'll miss out on the fun group activities if we can't get to each over easily. At least it'll stimulate Nether use / railcarts. We'll see how 4 works. Once a month might be a better frequency that once a week, though.

I'll say that the moving spawn was the real reason TN sprawled so much, not easy TP'ing. But if that's fixable too, then thats good.
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billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2012-03-03, 05:07

#1 Kill TL but allow tp. I am sure there is a way.

#2 Good...

#3 Really, people didn't build in the terraformed desert because of some well defined rules? I think people didn't build there because they were after bigger structures that would have individually taken over the entire downtown and the ugliness on the horizon on the other side of town. There were plenty of open plots available for the taking and no one did. This lack of guidelines is going to cause conflict, but its not going to be unfixable. The general idea should be: if you want a land claim and are going to start building immediately put down torches and signs indicating the desire to build there. Most people won't build in pre-lit areas unless they know they are open.

#4 I don't see much of a difference between hoarding and rapidly building a structure. In fact, I'd actually prefer that people hoard and build nice structures than feel the need to rush to completion on creative day. I understand as well that creative day will end up being quite busy/popular, so whatever; if it keeps the map going... Also: some restraints should be in place. I like 709's idea that big structures created on creative day should be done in a separate section of the map (unless its finishing touches on a mostly legit build)...
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2012-03-03, 13:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
Or maybe a creative day like once a month or so. Certainly not every week.
I certainly don't think decreasing the frequency is in the cards yet, and here's why: not everyone has a schedule that will allow them to take advantage of creative day if they really want to use it. In this very thread, for example, we have RowdyScot who won't be able to join us on a Saturday evening because he has to work. I don't want people excluded from this privilege because they have real-world obligations to meet and can't fit our schedule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
* Not all structures built in Creative mode are ugly, but open it up to everyone and I think you'll find that ugly outweighs the well-thought-out. Especially given a day to build (and hoard resources to continue building later).
The more I think about it, the more it seems "creative weekend" might be better than "creative day". You're absolutely right; one day probably isn't enough to finish a structure of moderate-large size. As for "ugly", that's always subjective, but if an overwhelming majority of players find something universally offensive, we'll deal with it as needed. I'm thinking grossly-bad griefer-type structures like landscapes covered in lava or giant penises, but again I think we're all mature enough that that won't be a problem.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
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2012-03-03, 13:20

*Deletes plans for 192-block high gold, diamond and lapis penis spewing lava.*
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2012-03-03, 13:21

Well, as long as it's not in-town, have at it!
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2012-03-03, 13:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Maybe we can do land claims with restrictions? Like, no claims for the town area, just for the big out-of-town projects, and only one claim per person at a time, to keep people from forgetting about their "someday..." claims?
This is why I deliberately used the word mandatory in "No mandatory land claims!". You can make land claims, but they're not required.

If you want to claim some area for an upcoming project, feel free to do so (and preferably mark it off in-game somehow). What I'm saying here is that we shouldn't have to seek approval for every single new project that we want to start. Just use some common sense judgement/courtesy. If you're going to take a huge plot of land, you should probably announce it, but plenty of small projects or distant homes shouldn't need group approval.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2012-03-03, 13:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
This is why I deliberately used the word mandatory in "No mandatory land claims!". You can make land claims, but they're not required.

If you want to claim some area for an upcoming project, feel free to do so (and preferably mark it off in-game somehow). What I'm saying here is that we shouldn't have to seek approval for every single new project that we want to start. Just use some common sense judgement/courtesy. If you're going to take a huge plot of land, you should probably announce it, but plenty of small projects or distant homes shouldn't need group approval.
Oh, OK! That makes sense. Sorry, I got confused.

I agree that marking off any land claims in-game should be a must. That way, nobody will have to wonder if Area X is available, feel like they have to check a thread and wait twenty-four hours, &c.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2012-03-03, 13:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobsky View Post
I don't see much of a difference between hoarding and rapidly building a structure. In fact, I'd actually prefer that people hoard and build nice structures than feel the need to rush to completion on creative day.
Agreed, and this is part of why I'm not forcibly preventing people from hoarding. If someone can plan out well enough his resource needs for a creative build, go ahead and stock up for that build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobsky View Post
I like 709's idea that big structures created on creative day should be done in a separate section of the map
I played around with the idea of roping off a creative section of the world, but I think that's more trouble than necessary for starting off, and I'd like to see things play out naturally at first. A creative area may even naturally spring up. For instance, if I decide to bring over or recreate my little city from TN, I'd love for others to add their own buildings to expand the city, but I'm not going to require that people build in/near it.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2012-03-03, 14:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
Oh, OK! That makes sense. Sorry, I got confused.

I agree that marking off any land claims in-game should be a must. That way, nobody will have to wonder if Area X is available, feel like they have to check a thread and wait twenty-four hours, &c.
For this if a person finds an area with no marking then they should be able to claim it. If you want an area, mark it off with torches or signs. We all know not to mess with torches, so if we see an area marked by torches we know to consider it claimed. Once the map gen program I have is updated for the new map formatting we will be able to view it at night and see clearly where it's been claimed already.

The concept of forcing popular vote on who gets what land is beyond absurd. If it's in use, don't try to take it. If it's open, have fun and build or dig. Sure be considerate, a strip mine next to the theater would be in horribly bad taste.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
awesome
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2012-03-03, 14:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobsky View Post
#3 Really, people didn't build in the terraformed desert because of some well defined rules?
Yup!

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobsky
I think people didn't build there because they were after bigger structures that would have individually taken over the entire downtown and the ugliness on the horizon on the other side of town.
I think you might be overestimating the impact of the "ugliness on the horizon." Bridgeport had buildings many considered ugly, too, but that didn't stop it from being a thriving town. The only difference between thriving Bridgeport and the deserted desert was the "well defined rules."

It was a nice experiment, but the HOA didn't make the game more fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobsky
This lack of guidelines is going to cause conflict
I think it will reduce conflict, actually. If you don't have guidelines, there aren't guidelines to disagree about

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2012-03-03, 15:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
If you don't have guidelines
Deregulation? Smaller government? What is this librarytarian nonsense? ROBO IS CORUPT
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billybobsky
BANNED
I am worthless beyond hope.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Inner Swabia. If you have to ask twice, don't.
 
2012-03-03, 16:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post
I think you might be overestimating the impact of the "ugliness on the horizon." Bridgeport had buildings many considered ugly, too, but that didn't stop it from being a thriving town. The only difference between thriving Bridgeport and the deserted desert was the "well defined rules."
I can't think of a single ugly building as dominating as the any one of the turtle-plex. But that's me.

Quote:
It was a nice experiment, but the HOA didn't make the game more fun.
It didn't make it less fun -- I think there are some really cool buildings that resulted from the fact that the hoa existed -- the theater is awesome as is the train station, and I am partial to the mob cube (i'd like it to come over to the new world, actually asap)...


Quote:
I think it will reduce conflict, actually. If you don't have guidelines, there aren't guidelines to disagree about
Nah. It will just drive conflict and anger under the surface. Much like libertarian principles of governance drives socially irresponsible behavior by individuals and corporations into the dark.
  quote
Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2012-03-10, 16:20

So far, so good. One week later, it seems the world is thriving just fine under these new policies.

One clarification on this one because of questions turtle and I have gotten in-game:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
#2. No god powers! This also means no OP status (including me). Anything that really requires OP status can be done from the command-line if needed, and those times should be rare (updating whitelist, restarting server, etc). Some of you guys have gotten bent out of shape with the use of OP creative mode in TerraNova; so, we're going to give this a try. I hope that this will resolve some of those tensions.
"No OP status" really means "no OP status". You can't on one hand complain about OP's abusing their powers for themselves while on the other hand asking for OP favors when it benefits you. Turtle and I will not be granting requests for OP "magic", and we will only use the console in dire situations. "I need some X block" or "help I'm stuck in a cave" do not count as dire situations. Rather, "the server is down" or "we've been griefed" are the kind of cases that warrant using administrative privileges to investigate and resolve problems.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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Artap99
Totally awesome.
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC
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2012-03-19, 18:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
#4. Creative Day! But I just said no god powers! Yes, on a regular basis, perhaps every Saturday or Sunday, anyone will be allowed to use creative mode to bang out some fun building projects. If you don't want to use creative mode, you can certainly opt-out and stay in survival mode. On creative days, please be mindful of other "legit" projects. If you plan to construct something large or ostentatious, please take it away from the general populace. I know that having creative mode opens up the potential for resource hoarding, but I'm going to start with no countermeasures to prevent hoarding. I only ask that you use creative mode responsibly. If I find people are abusing creative mode, I will revoke the privilege.
So...how about a Tuesday the 20th of March?
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2012-03-19, 22:10

This Saturday at the earliest, but no promises. Got too much IRL shit to do.
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Artap99
Totally awesome.
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
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2012-03-19, 23:53

Woo! Promises!
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