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Late '12 iMac
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2012-10-23, 14:58

Worst iMac update in Apple's history. PERIOD!!

More expensive. Nothing new.

Oh and availability = just in time for a product shortage going in to the holidays.

Stupid. Other than the iPad Mini and 13" Retina, this entire announcement should have waited for March. Announcing products that are not available is lame!

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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2012-10-23, 15:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Something tells me that Fusion drive is going to put the $1,299 "entry"-level model up to the ~$1,800 neighborhood. We already know Apple is so pricey on their SSD BTO options. Between that and this being some cool, new feature, I can see them charging $400-500 for it.
That depends a little on how these are built. Assuming they're a 3.5-inch HDD plus an SSD and software-based magic (or a custom controller of Apple's), I doubt they'll make it a $499 upgrade — a 128 GB SSD on the MacBook Pro is $199, which is ridiculous on its own, but the 3.5-inch 1 TB disk is going to cost next to nothing, so even with an absurd markup, they're not gonna make it $499.

If, on the other hand, the HDD is actually 2.5 inches (unlikely given the 3 TB Fusion Drive option, unless they're combining two adjacent 2.5-inch drives?), that'd be a bit more reasonable, though still pricey. I'm guessing something more like $299 for 1 TB Fusion Drive and $499 for 3 TB.
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Mugge
Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
 
2012-10-23, 15:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Oh and availability = just in time for a product shortage going in to the holidays.
It would be quite an embarrassment if Tim Cook of all people would fail to delvier in time for Christmas. But give the man a little credit.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2012-10-23, 15:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Stupid. Other than the iPad Mini and 13" Retina, this entire announcement should have waited for March. Announcing products that are not available is lame!
To be fair, plenty of folks were waiting for something, anything regarding the iMac.
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Mugge
Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
 
2012-10-23, 15:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
If, on the other hand, the HDD is actually 2.5 inches (unlikely given the 3 TB Fusion Drive option, unless they're combining two adjacent 2.5-inch drives?), that'd be a bit more reasonable, though still pricey. I'm guessing something more like $299 for 1 TB Fusion Drive and $499 for 3 TB.
Maybe the 21.5" model is sporting a single 2.5" drive? That would explain the capacity limit and the 5400rpm speed.
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washington mac user
can't read
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
 
2012-10-23, 15:06

Okay haven't posted in a while, but all I have got to say is this is the best product unveiling Apple has done in a long while. The 27 inch iMac is worth the price. Just look at the graphics card. GTX675M built using nVidia's new Kepler architecture.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-...X.82580.0.html

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/note...specifications

256 bit memory bus, 1gig GDDR5 memory, 960 cuda cores... so much better than the previous iMac GPU. Also produces less heat and uses less power.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2012-10-23, 15:16

I love how everyone's all over the place on this!

"Worst event/unveiling EVER!"

"Best thing Apple's ever done!"



Damn, we are a goofy bunch. Which just further illustrates a) how one man's "trash" is another's treasure, and b) how impossible it is to make sweeping, blanket statements about the usage and needs of others because those needing quad-core processors, 1GB graphics and 2-3TB storage aren't looking at all this stuff through the same eyes as those with 200-300 photos, less than 1,000 digital songs and who just want to surf, e-mail, FaceBook and play Angry Birds...and vice versa. I'm probably somewhere in the middle. I like a bit of performance, but I don't need anything over-the-top or truly "pro-level" like people who are working in other fields in a serious, ongoing way (video, music, etc.). But I also don't want 4GB RAM and a 64GB hard drive, so I can't go the cheapest, entry-level route either.

It is an upgrade, but it's just weird on a few levels (form over function, stuff nobody was asking for at the expense of features/performance it previously had, the price increase, etc.).

So I can actually see, and understand, both sides of it all...those who like it, and those who don't.

I'm kinda in the middle. I guess as someone who isn't upgrading their stuff every 1-2 years, I'm a bit more easy-to-please because, after 3-5 years (my typical ownership/usage range), everything is "new and cool". So I'm never in a position to be "underwhelmed" by product upgrades because I wouldn't be coming from a 2010-2011 iMac (try 2007-2008), so that factors in a bit, I know (it's like all the people squawking last year that the iPhone 4s wasn't "much of an update to the iPhone". Well if you just bought an iPhone 4 6-9 months prior, no shit, puddinghead. It's not supposed to be). I don't think the 4s was made to dazzle those with last year's model. But if you're coming from a 3G or 3Gs (like most people who run on their two-year contract cycles (and who aren't Leo Laporte and John Gruber and just buy new stuff every time it's announced, because they can or because it's part of their job), then yeah...the 4s is pretty significant.

Mac-wise, yeah...I'm coming from an iPhone 3G or 3Gs, so I'm going to be a little more excited and forgiving because it's a significant step up in every single way. I just worry that I can't afford it once I get it the way I'd like for a 2012-era Mac (and knowing that I'll probably still be using it come 2015-2016, based on past experience). I'm not gonna "be in the market again" for an iMac in 2014...
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2012-10-23, 15:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I love how everyone's all over the place on this!

"Worst event/unveiling EVER!"

"Best thing Apple's ever done!"
Eh. The iMac disappoints me, Fusion Drive is promising (wish that were an option on the rMBPs, though!), and everything else is fine. They introduced a lot of products, but none that blow me away.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2012-10-23, 15:32

Yeah, that's probably where most people sit. The cool thing is, that - except for the Mac Pro and Cinema Display - Apple's entire lineup is refreshed, heading into the holidays. Granted, the notebooks are a bit older (from WWDC), but still...Ivy Bridge, USB 3 and all the rest, so they're "current". And then the iPhone, iPods, both iPads, the new 13" MacBook Pro, the iMac and Mac mini. Pretty much everything is on the latest processors, I/O, etc. So that Apple fan on your Christmas list is going to be happy with whatever. There's nothing "lacking" or lagging now, across the Mac or iOS lines. People can buy with confidence, knowing that whatever they get has got a good 6-12 (or more) months to go as "current generation".

Has that ever happened before, everything upgraded and on the "same page" heading into the holiday season?

I don't know, I'm asking.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2012-10-23, 15:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
The cool thing is, that - except for the Mac Pro and Cinema Display - Apple's entire lineup is refreshed, heading into the holidays.
Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Has that ever happened before, everything upgraded and on the "same page" heading into the holiday season?

I don't know, I'm asking.
Not sure, but it feels like there used to be always that one whizbang feature that, irksomely, was missing on several other models. This time, not so much, unless you count Fusion Drive.
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2012-10-23, 15:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugge View Post
It would be quite an embarrassment if Tim Cook of all people would fail to delvier in time for Christmas. But give the man a little credit.
27's are not shipping until December for crying out loud! I'll give him credit when I have computers to sell the long line of customers I have waiting. No offense, but, no!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
To be fair, plenty of folks were waiting for something, anything regarding the iMac.
Anything that was priced fairly and, you know, actually shipping!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I love how everyone's all over the place on this!

"Worst event/unveiling EVER!"

"Best thing Apple's ever done!"

Best product lineup ever, worst pricing and availability ever!

I don't agree with BU much, but he's damned right on the iMac pricing: Less stuff, more money, all so it can be 5mm thin around the perimeter! Bad. Plan!



Also, while I agree 100% with eliminating the optical drives, there was a touch of "F-U" in Schiller's comment regarding "those of you stuck in the past". It's one thing to eliminate the drive for technology's sake, entirely another to slap people in the face with it. It isn't what he said, it's how he said.



Another rant:

The 13" Retina is no less than $200 over-priced. Who's going to buy these things? $1700 is too much for the configuration. No way I can look a customer in the eye and sell these things with a straight face. Really?

Oh, and did you know this:

13" Retina 2.9GHz dual core/8GB/256GB/Intel 4000 w/512MB = $2199
15" Retina 2.3GHz quad core/8GB/256GB/Intel 4000 + 1GB Nvidia thing = $2199

Really?



Steve Jobs was ousted from Apple because he wanted to sell the original Macintosh for $1999, while Sculley wanted to get an extra $500. Basically, Jobs wanted things cheap enough that most people could afford them. This latest round makes me think that the bean-counters have gained control. Sad, actually!

Every single product they released today is over-priced, especially considering current market conditions.

I don't bad-mouth Apple very often, but…

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
Mugge
Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
 
2012-10-23, 16:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
27's are not shipping until December for crying out loud! I'll give him credit when I have computers to sell the long line of customers I have waiting. No offense, but, no!
Would you rather have been left in ignorance?

Assuming they couldn't speed up deliveries, this is better than not telling. It might hurt sales of the current model, but that's only Apple's problem.

Quote:
I don't bad-mouth Apple very often, but…
... when you do, you sure don't pull your punches!
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2012-10-23, 16:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugge View Post
Would you rather have been left in ignorance?
I'd rather Apple have kept selling the current thing and delayed this product launch until March. If the old models were even available (which they haven't been for quite some time) we'd buy a ton of them (they are a much better value), and I'd at least have something to sell.

Yes, now we know what Apple has, and now we know they won't be available until well into the X-mas buying rush. That puts pressure on Apple to deliver, and they always stock their corporate stores first, which leaves us unable to even compete! It will be very difficult for us to get product that close to Christmas. May not seem like a big deal, but it absolutely cripples us!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugge View Post
... when you do, you sure don't pull your punches!
It's the way I am. Pretty patient, but this is just stupid!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
Mugge
Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
 
2012-10-23, 16:37

D'oh! I completely missed out on the fact that the current model has become unavailable. That changes things a bit, though, not my fondness for the new model.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2012-10-23, 17:33

The slow down in production and switch to a new model has to happen, but not having iMac's available for purchase for over a month? I'm kscherer on this one, that's a fail. I guess Apple doesn't care since it's bread and butter products are iPad's, iPhone's and MBP's.
  quote
FFL
Fishhead Family Reunited
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Slightly Off Center
 
2012-10-23, 17:48

Yeah, the availability thing is pretty effed up.

If you go to store.apple.com right now and want to buy an iMac, you have two choices: "Available in November", and "Available in December".


I can't believe that they actually planned it this way, so.... component shortage? Problems producing the new displays?
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2012-10-23, 17:56

I think the issue is the new design. I bet it takes twice as long to assemble due to the new lamination process for the glass. The aluminium body also looks less efficiently to make, at lot more waste per unit. Yes the aluminium can be melted down again for another unit, but it takes time. My bet is that it will take 3-5 months for decent stock to hit the shelves.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2012-10-23, 18:19

Actually, I think there'd be less waste per unit with the new design. Dollars to donuts they're cutting the aluminum sheets like this:



Where with the last design there would be minimal overlap, if any at all.

So it goes.
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2012-10-23, 18:21

Looks like more time would have to be spent cutting the grinding though, due to the shape of the shell. Having worked with aluminium in a shop when I was younger, that's just my first impression.
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Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-10-23, 18:32

For those in need of an iMac, can get a decent deal with a refurb. $400 off a 27" iMac i5 and i7.
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Chinney
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
 
2012-10-23, 19:38

I like the direction of the new product. The 5400rpm is a bit of a disappointment in the smaller model, but I think that this is all just a transition step for Apple toward a Fusion drive as being standard all around.

As I said, I like the direction, but I think that the next update will have a nicer combination of features at better price points. This was not Apple's strongest release.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-10-23, 21:30

I don't know if anyone noticed, but the Fusion drive costs $250 on the Mac Mini. So I would expect the same 1 TB+128 GB Fusion drive for the iMac to cost the same.

giggity
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2012-10-23, 21:33

Hmmm. And, from what I understand, that option isn't even offered on the $1,299 iMac?
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Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-10-23, 21:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Hmmm. And, from what I understand, that option isn't even offered on the $1,299 iMac?
Yep, only available on the $1499 iMac and up( with the $1499 only offered with the 1 TB Fusion Drive).
  quote
Satchmo
can't read sarcasm.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
2012-10-23, 22:03

I find the new iMac incredibly awesome.

I hear the argument that there's no benefit to having a thinner display, since the footprint remains the same. True, but form and design aesthetic has always been a key selling feature for Apple. Through the years, the iMac has evolved, but has always been sculpted as if it were a piece of art.
So I say kudos to Johnny Ive for again keeping Apple on the leading edge of product design.

My only question is why they couldn't completely get rid of the bulge on the back. If the components of a MacBook can be so house in such a thin space, why can't this be achieved on the back of an iMac?
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Messiahtosh
Apple Historian
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-10-23, 22:10

So, you have $2k to spend on a new Mac right now, which do you buy? My employer has a pretty cool benefit where they allow us (every 2 years) to buy a computer and accessories, with a total cost of up to $2,000 and then they reimburse us and then deduct the money from our paycheck over the course of the year at no interest. So a $2,000 computer would cost me $77 a paycheck. It's a decent way of upgrading without tapping into savings I suppose.

What would you go for?

"We are reviewing some 9,000 recent UNHCR referrals from Syria. We are receiving roughly a thousand new ones each month, and we expect admissions from Syria to surge in 2015 and beyond." - Anne C. Richard, Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration
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Messiahtosh
Apple Historian
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-10-23, 22:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satchmo View Post
I

My only question is why they couldn't completely get rid of the bulge on the back. If the components of a MacBook can be so house in such a thin space, why can't this be achieved on the back of an iMac?
Maybe it has to do with cooling?
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-10-23, 22:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satchmo View Post
My only question is why they couldn't completely get rid of the bulge on the back. If the components of a MacBook can be so house in such a thin space, why can't this be achieved on the back of an iMac?
The CPU is a desktop CPU, desktop HD, more powerful GPU, integrated power supply, etc. Got to have room to cool all those things that produce more heat than laptop components.

giggity
  quote
Satchmo
can't read sarcasm.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
2012-10-23, 22:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
The CPU is a desktop CPU, desktop HD, more powerful GPU, integrated power supply, etc. Got to have room to cool all those things that produce more heat than laptop components.
I always thought the iMac had laptop components. At least it did in the past.
  quote
Quagmire
meh
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2012-10-23, 22:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satchmo View Post
I always thought the iMac had laptop components. At least it did in the past.
The Late 2009 iMac switched some to desktop components. Mainly the CPU. The iMac still uses a mobile GPU( though more powerful mobile GPU's than the ones found in the MBP's) and laptop RAM.

giggity
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