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Late '12 iMac
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torifile
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2012-10-23, 22:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiahtosh View Post
So, you have $2k to spend on a new Mac right now, which do you buy? My employer has a pretty cool benefit where they allow us (every 2 years) to buy a computer and accessories, with a total cost of up to $2,000 and then they reimburse us and then deduct the money from our paycheck over the course of the year at no interest. So a $2,000 computer would cost me $77 a paycheck. It's a decent way of upgrading without tapping into savings I suppose.

What would you go for?
Retina MacBook Pro, 15". It's a little more than $2k but the best Mac I've ever used.
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psmith2.0
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2012-10-24, 00:30

Eh, nevermind...I'm sounding like a whiny, first-worlder tech dork who doesn't appreciate how good he really has it, my least favorite type of person these days.

It's a swell machine. I just miss a few things that they've now done away with.

How's that?

It'll be nice to see one in person at some point. The display seems gorgeous.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2012-10-24 at 00:50.
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ezkcdude
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2012-10-24, 01:46

Holy crap, just saw this. Sexy as hell.
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psmith2.0
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2012-10-24, 02:17



You just saw this news (new iMac), or you saw one in real life (like a display model at an Apple Store)?
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Matsu
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2012-10-24, 08:36

Any word on the backlighting system for the display? Is it white LED or RGB LED? Asking because I'd like to figure out if it's possible to calibrate this thing in (or close to) the aRGB color space... Probably not an issue practically speaking. I'm finding I can get images where they need to be on the old gen iMac screens. The newer low glare glossy screen sounds like it might be really nice to look at.

I wonder if we'll see a retina version of this in a new ACD? Maybe when the new Mac Pro's launch in 2013?

.........................................
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ezkcdude
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2012-10-24, 09:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post


You just saw this news (new iMac), or you saw one in real life (like a display model at an Apple Store)?
I just saw the news last night. It was a travel day.
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Brave Ulysses
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2012-10-25, 02:30

I guess no one else noticed it but what was up with the shitty presentation for unveiling the iMac?

It was revealed via computer rendering on the screen? In a forced zoom and pan with a poor rendering at that? And then Schiller asked if we wanted to see it in person.... as if the previous reveal was intended to lead us to think the product was actually vaporware. Then it appeared on Apple's traditional product podium but it didn't rotate on its own. Schiller had to awkwardly rotate the podium manually.

It was a glaring lack of precision and attention to detail in an Apple presentation. It may be small, but the podium rotation thing is something that would have really had Steve pissed (and I hate everyone always referring to what Steve would or would not have done).

It was just weird. Did the podium break? Schiller even seemed to feel awkward about it all.
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psmith2.0
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2012-10-25, 05:59

No, we all missed it. I think they forgot how to talk about Macs anymore. It's awkward and unfamiliar for them because they're not used to it.
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Messiahtosh
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2012-10-25, 23:15

It's their most marvelous Mac design since the G4 Cube and that got an incredible revealing compared to this. They need to step up!
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chucker
 
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2012-10-26, 01:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiahtosh View Post
It's their most marvelous Mac design since the G4 Cube
Wha? It's a slightly thinner iteration of the G5 design. Surely one can think of half a dozen more interesting designs since the Cube than this one.
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Mugge
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2012-10-26, 06:45

The iMac G4 was the most beautiful. But this new one is second best in my opinion.
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Xaqtly
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2012-10-26, 17:27

I still love how you can carry the G4 iMac by the stem, near the base. Maybe it's just because my job is supporting Macs and I've had to move hundreds of them over the years, but the G4 iMac was easily the most pleasant to move around.
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Noel
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2012-10-26, 19:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaqtly View Post
I still love how you can carry the G4 iMac by the stem, near the base. Maybe it's just because my job is supporting Macs and I've had to move hundreds of them over the years, but the G4 iMac was easily the most pleasant to move around.
While the temptation to do this was just about impossible to overcome, Apple did strongly discourage it. I never saw anything bad happen from carrying them that way (other than when I got to deliberately throw one onto the pavement at a Waste Management facility), but the head of IT at my college would give me the stink eye whenever she saw me doing it.
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Brave Ulysses
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2012-10-26, 19:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel View Post
While the temptation to do this was just about impossible to overcome, Apple did strongly discourage it. I never saw anything bad happen from carrying them that way (other than when I got to deliberately throw one onto the pavement at a Waste Management facility), but the head of IT at my college would give me the stink eye whenever she saw me doing it.
Fact Checker in house. That's actually incorrect

Quote:
The iMac (Flat Panel) display neck is capable of fully supporting the computer. However, placing a hand under the computer, as illustrated in Figure 1, makes it easier to carry.
Note: Before moving the iMac (Flat Panel), make sure all cables and cords are disconnected.
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA47226?...S&locale=en_US

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Noel
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2012-10-26, 20:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
Fact Checker in house. That's actually incorrect



http://support.apple.com/kb/TA47226?...S&locale=en_US

Well, whaddaya know! I'll have to email that to my old boss and tell her I was doing it right the whole time. I was always under the impression that the hand under the base was crucial.
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Moogs
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2012-10-26, 21:56

TitMac Strikes again. ^^^

BTW for this latest update I was keeping a close eye on the screen specs and expandability. I don't see any possible way this could stand in for a Mac Pro so hopefully the Cook was not lying when he said something new was on the way in 2013.

This quote about the new iMac Screen

Quote:
That’s because every iMac display is individually color-calibrated using state-of-the-art spectroradiometers to match color standards recognized around the world.
Could be roughly translated as: our screen's color gamut and bit depth is just like it always was except now we create an awesome color profile for you!

Even though what they want us to infer is: This screen covers the Adobe RGB Gamut.

My bet: the only gamut this screen covers is sRGB, which doesn't mean a whole lot.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Messiahtosh
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2012-10-26, 23:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Wha? It's a slightly thinner iteration of the G5 design. Surely one can think of half a dozen more interesting designs since the Cube than this one.
Yeah, except when you compare the two there is no comparison. It's like a before and after weight loss shot and a complete makeover at the same time. You can sort of tell that it's the same person but just barely.

"We are reviewing some 9,000 recent UNHCR referrals from Syria. We are receiving roughly a thousand new ones each month, and we expect admissions from Syria to surge in 2015 and beyond." - Anne C. Richard, Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration
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chucker
 
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2012-10-27, 06:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiahtosh View Post
Yeah, except when you compare the two there is no comparison. It's like a before and after weight loss shot and a complete makeover at the same time. You can sort of tell that it's the same person but just barely.
Here's a few Mac significant design introductions / iterations between the Cube and this new iMac:
  • The white iBook
  • The original Mac mini
  • The 2010 Mac mini
  • The unibody MacBook Pro
  • The MacBook Air

None of these, two you, are as significant? The retina make-over of the 15- and now 13-inch MacBook Pros isn't as significant? These seem much bigger deals to me than the new iMac.
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Messiahtosh
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2012-10-27, 08:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Here's a few Mac significant design introductions / iterations between the Cube and this new iMac:
  • The white iBook
  • The original Mac mini
  • The 2010 Mac mini
  • The unibody MacBook Pro
  • The MacBook Air

None of these, two you, are as significant? The retina make-over of the 15- and now 13-inch MacBook Pros isn't as significant? These seem much bigger deals to me than the new iMac.
Out of all of those, I would go with the MacBook Air as the most significant design intro after the G4 Cube. The Cube was a level of fit and finish (minus scattered mold-lines but then there are ghosting issues with retina MacBooks of today) above many Apple products even sold today, and that was in 2000.

"We are reviewing some 9,000 recent UNHCR referrals from Syria. We are receiving roughly a thousand new ones each month, and we expect admissions from Syria to surge in 2015 and beyond." - Anne C. Richard, Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration
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PB PM
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2012-10-27, 09:39

The MBA is easily more significant in terms of design, because all the slim models that have been introduced since are just following suite. Thus the slim iMac design, in the grand scheme of things, is rather insignificant. Just look at the iMac G4, which in a sense was actually thinner (base aside).
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Wrao
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2012-10-29, 11:18

This iMac is really great, and I love how the aggressively steep design allows it to 'casually' look ultra thin. You see it in casual shots where it wasn't even staged to look thin and it still has that look from many angles.

Still, similar to the iPad Mini, it's tough to shake the feeling of just seeing where this product is going and knowing that maybe as quickly as 2 years, it will be impressively better in all respects to a degree that makes this current model look almost like a stopgap.

It is my belief that, tech willing, Apple will continue to strike at the thickness, weight and noise of their iMacs until they are(design wise) comparable to seeing a giant iPad on a stand, only with desktop caliber performance and while I don't think anyone would regret getting a new iMac today, I know what I'm waiting for with regards to when I want to upgrade from my 2011 model.
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Brave Ulysses
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2012-10-29, 11:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrao View Post
This iMac is really great
Honest question. Did you think the same thing about the previous generation?

All that changed design wise was a reduction in the perimeter thickness. It is seemingly just as thick in the center back. And as I have said many times, the stand dictates its thickness.


I ask simply because the previous generation was arguably better, yet you are really excited about this one. Does it really come down to that false thinness? And if so why?

I'm not saying you are wrong to feel that way, I just don't get it.

I could take a picture of the previous generation sitting in front of me right now and there would be ZERO difference in design. I could take a picture from the exact opposite side and there would be zero difference in design. The only way there is a difference in design is from the side, and even then, its just at the edges.

And as a result of that design we lost an optical drive, ram upgrades on the 21.5" model, had the SD slot moved to a less convenient location, the price increased $100, the product isn't shipping, etc....

If Apple had gone and really reinvented the iMac and the above occurred I would be cool with it if it was new and fresh and the tradeoffs were obviously necessary. But for what they did, I don't think it was worthwhile. The tradeoffs are simply in favor of a marketing ploy about perceived thinness.


(I do recognize the screen has had a significant upgrade, but that did not dictate a design change... that same screen assembly could have been used on the existing design)

Quote:
It is my belief that, tech willing, Apple will continue to strike at the thickness, weight and noise of their iMacs until they are(design wise) comparable to seeing a giant iPad on a stand, only with desktop caliber performance
Imagine what they could have done performance wise if it had been an inch thick!
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Frank777
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2012-10-29, 12:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
And as a result of that design we lost an optical drive, ram upgrades on the 21.5" model, had the SD slot moved to a less convenient location, the price increased $100, the product isn't shipping, etc....
What he said.
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Wrao
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2012-10-29, 12:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
Honest question. Did you think the same thing about the previous generation?

All that changed design wise was a reduction in the perimeter thickness. It is seemingly just as thick in the center back. And as I have said many times, the stand dictates its thickness.


I ask simply because the previous generation was arguably better, yet you are really excited about this one. Does it really come down to that false thinness? And if so why?

I'm not saying you are wrong to feel that way, I just don't get it. !
Well. I have the 2011 27" iMac, I'm typing on it right now. I think it is a great design, save for a few things. 1) weight 2) noise 3) thickness 4) heat. For clarification though, I'm less excited about *this* new generation as I am about where the iMac is headed, and that this generation instills more confidence that Apple is interested in pushing those things. It seems like, technology willing, they will make a fully capable desktop that is half as thick, half as heavy, half as noisy(bordering completely silent) within the next few years, essentially becoming a computer that, as it sits in a room, doesn't 'feel' like a computer at all.

I mean, you're not wrong of course, it *is* something of a sleight-of-hand to simply taper the edges to a supreme thinness while the center back remains as thick, and some functionality is decreased in the process, but I would be surprised if it was actually easy to accomplish that even with removing the disc drive, and in the long-run, where the iMac ends up will probably benefit from their having pursued that sooner-than-later.
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Frank777
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2012-10-29, 12:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrao View Post
Well. I have the 2011 27" iMac, I'm typing on it right now. I think it is a great design, save for a few things. 1) weight 2) noise 3) thickness 4) heat.
1. Why does the weight of a desktop matter? It's not being moved around. Saving shipping costs is great, but the new iMac's more expensive.

2. My iMac's not noisy. I presume you're talking about fan or hard drive noise, which the SSD will help.

3. Again, what's the problem with a one-inch-thick desktop? You can't use the saved space for anything practical.

4. Making the computer even more thinner and more powerful can't be good for heat dissipation.

However you slice this, it's form over function.
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Brave Ulysses
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2012-10-29, 12:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrao View Post
Well. I have the 2011 27" iMac, I'm typing on it right now. I think it is a great design, save for a few things. 1) weight 2) noise 3) thickness 4) heat.
I have one in front of me. It may as well be the late 2012 model because it looks no different.

As far as those "flaws" of the 2011 model.... I want to say sure, those are somewhat arbitrary.... but I don't even think that is valid.

Weight... it's a desktop and at 30.5 pounds it's already lighter than any other desktop I know of.... especially at its size. And why does it matter if it is 6 pounds lighter? Weight is not an advantage to a desktop design, especially after a product reaches a certain weight.

Noise... I have never heard my iMac.... does yours make noise? I am at mine all day and use it for 3D cad, music, and photo editing... even at full load I don't hear a fan.... I'm not even exaggerating.... do you really hear yours?

Thickness? How does it being .3" vs 1" matter? Especially when the stand was and remains 8" deep?

Heat... again.... is there something wrong with your iMac? Mine gets warm but all computers do, especially when strapped with a 27" screen. It never reaches a point where I actually feel like its giving off heat. And it isn't an issue in anything. And I don't think the new design does anything to diminish heat either... if anything it might produce more heat.

Quote:
essentially becoming a computer that, as it sits in a room, doesn't 'feel' like a computer at all.
sure feels that way to me right now on my desk. I may as well be staring at the 2012 iMac.
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Wrao
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2012-10-29, 13:14

Well, in my case, it's my desk. It's a fairly average computer desk but the iMac's weight is just enough to where it wobbles around more than it 'should', but even against that, even though the computer isn't one that moves around daily like a laptop, every time you do move it, you notice these things. Over the course of its life and my usage of it, I will have moved it maybe a hundred times, and given the choice of 'the weight is something I notice' or 'the weight is something I do not notice', I'd choose the latter. All else being equal, I would prefer them to be lighter, substantially if possible. But philosophically, I'm kind of 'over' the 'function/form' debate. I'm not suffering for lack of performance or function at all on my iMac despite a conventional desktop easily being a better value proposition. Is it not enough to like even prefer a computer's form? It's not 1995 anymore, we don't buy and use computers just for the work we can accomplish on them, how they actually fit into our lives in a 'lifetime ownership' sense matters as well, and to that end things like weight, size/dimensions, noise and heat are all areas that, all else being equal, have no reason to not improve and even, in some cases, I would gladly sacrifice some from the 'all else being equal' part to get there. Apple has historically been very good at aggressively shaping their products physically even where they lose something along the way, over time, they tend to get it back and then some.
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Brave Ulysses
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2012-10-29, 13:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrao View Post
Well, in my case, it's my desk. It's a fairly average computer desk but the iMac's weight is just enough to where it wobbles around more than it 'should', but even against that, even though the computer isn't one that moves around daily like a laptop, every time you do move it, you notice these things. Over the course of its life and my usage of it, I will have moved it maybe a hundred times, and given the choice of 'the weight is something I notice' or 'the weight is something I do not notice', I'd choose the latter. All else being equal, I would prefer them to be lighter, substantially if possible. But philosophically, I'm kind of 'over' the 'function/form' debate. I'm not suffering for lack of performance or function at all on my iMac despite a conventional desktop easily being a better value proposition. Is it not enough to like even prefer a computer's form? It's not 1995 anymore, we don't buy and use computers just for the work we can accomplish on them, how they actually fit into our lives in a 'lifetime ownership' sense matters as well, and to that end things like weight, size/dimensions, noise and heat are all areas that, all else being equal, have no reason to not improve and even, in some cases, I would gladly sacrifice some from the 'all else being equal' part to get there. Apple has historically been very good at aggressively shaping their products physically even where they lose something along the way, over time, they tend to get it back and then some.
I'll just have to continue to not understand your issues I guess because I don't. Your iMac wobbles? Mine is pretty darn sturdy... even trying to rock it doesn't rock it. I'm fully aware of the need to "move" the iMac... like every time I have to plug in a USB cable because Apple puts the ports on the back.... at 30.5 pounds it shifts on its axis with ease and without effort from me. This will be a more common action now that they put the SD card slot on the back.... which really will require people to rotate the iMac a lot more than even the ports being on the back did. If you are carrying your iMac often I think the screen size has been more of an inconvenience than the weight ever has been.

The rest of it... I just really don't know where you are coming from. It just doesn't make sense to me and even less so since you explained your experiences of noise, weight and heat... none of which have even been close to being factors in my usage.


I've owned every iMac revision since the DV SE... I upgrade it annually... sell the previous, buy the new one. It usually works out surprisingly well, in some cases I have actually made $50. This is the first time I am actually questioning whether it is worthwhile to do so. And the iMac has been through a lot of drastic design changes since the DV SE and has made tradeoffs and has made huge leaps in design..... this one doesn't work I fear.
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kscherer
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2012-10-29, 13:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
However you slice this, it's form over function.
In Apple land, this is the first time I have actually agreed with this statement. The new model truly is form over function.
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Matsu
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2012-10-29, 13:57

If the iMac is hot and noisy there might be something wrong with it.

However, it could be that the screen is cooking your face a tad. We have a tendency to get close to the screen when working for long periods, and some of the larger screens can emit considerable wattage.

TFT central measures the average consumption for various screens and there is quite a range within the marketplace.

I see people everywhere with screens turned up to maximum, and face almost right up to the glass. Some of those units are hot enough to stand in for an 80 watt bulb.

iMac's LED lighting should be better/cooler than most, but it's got the rest of the computer (and its wattage) glomed on as well, so if you sit close you might feel it.

I wonder if the panel lamination and redesign make the new model any more efficient at getting the same brightness from fewer total watts?

All that said, I don't mind the design. For me, the validation for it is whether it all adds up to a substantially better screen: less glare, better sharpness, contrast, uniformity, ease of calibration. The glossy cover wasn't great if you set the screen to an appropriate dimmness for editing. They didn't have to change the shape just to redesign the screen, but less weight across thousands of units adds up to lower overall shipping costs.

We'll really have to look at a pair side by side in order to judge.

.........................................
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